Haha, I'm not sure if you're making fun of my lame appeal to source lore, but anyway: Yes, it's because they're so good-humoured and carefree (and a bit cowardly) that adventuring gnomes are so rare, they just don't think quests and things are really their problem.
OK, that's nice. Than I chose a befitting personality for Ohrlinka.
Nothing wrong with having FR-lore. I'm always surprised at how much some people know. I hardly now anything beyond what's in the game.
@Jalily: I appreciate the explanation, though it seems you are withholding some serious disdain for developers due to favouring the male majority, unless I am mistaken?
@Jalily: I appreciate the explanation, though it seems you are withholding some serious disdain for developers due to favouring the male majority, unless I am mistaken?
@Jalily: I appreciate the explanation, though it seems you are withholding some serious disdain for developers due to favouring the male majority, unless I am mistaken?
Majority?
Males are the minority of the gaming world? Since when?
Ok, if you're talking about existing players, then sure males probably are the majority, but surely that bias exists precisely because of the institutionalised sexism in the gaming industry. In the potential market I get the impression the gender split is about 50/50 isn't it?
Ok, if you're talking about existing players, then sure males probably are the majority, but surely that bias exists precisely because of the institutionalised sexism in the gaming industry. In the potential market I get the impression the gender split is about 50/50 isn't it?
In over 20 years of gaming, there is nothing that I've seen and heard from video games (singleplayer, multiplayer, and MMO) to pen and paper to miniatures that gives me the impression of males not being the majority of the gaming world. I would be surprised if the ratio is more equal than 75% male - 25% female, and I think I'm being generous in favour of the number of female gamers there are.
50/50? There must be a huge amount of females that play, dress, look, and act like men.
Ok, if you're talking about existing players, then sure males probably are the majority, but surely that bias exists precisely because of the institutionalised sexism in the gaming industry. In the potential market I get the impression the gender split is about 50/50 isn't it?
In over 20 years of gaming, there is nothing that I've seen and heard from video games (singleplayer, multiplayer, and MMO) to pen and paper to miniatures that gives me the impression of males not being the majority of the gaming world. I would be surprised if the ratio is more equal than 75% male - 25% female, and I think I'm being generous in favour of the number of female gamers there are.
50/50? There must be a huge amount of females that play, dress, look, and act like men.
Um, I'm not trying to be facetious here, but did you even read my post?
To make my point a little clearer: The gender demographics of gamers and the sexism evident in a lot of games development have presumably been feeding one another for decades. Most games are male-oriented because most gamers are male, and there are fewer female gamers because most games are male-oriented. It's a sad, self-perpetuating spiral of gender imbalance in the industry.
I said the potential market was 50/50 gender split. That is to say the wider population that games could appeal to.
Ok, if you're talking about existing players, then sure males probably are the majority, but surely that bias exists precisely because of the institutionalised sexism in the gaming industry. In the potential market I get the impression the gender split is about 50/50 isn't it?
There is defiantly money to be made. Probably a lot less than you might think though. Video game publishers already make money from female gamers with games like the Sims, Farmville, Harvest Moon ect. Games like those cater to the female demographic with some added cash made from a periphery male demographic. Games like COD are the reverse. Also the tastes of male audiesces aren't entirely to blame for the lack of big budget games/blockbusters for women. Remember that it's socially accepteble for women/girls to like guy stuff but not the reverse. When guys like "girl stuff" like MLP women (ever hear what the View says about bronies) and the media paint them as discusting and creapy for doing so. Hence they try to stay away from anything that caters too heavily towards a female demographic. Big media knows this hense they make stuff for guys with some token (buff shirtless hunks, romance drama, token chick meant for women do identify with) stuff thrown in for women to maximize their profits.
Hopefully this mini rant came out the right way and won't start a flame war. Also could you not throw phrases like "institutionalized sexism" around? I find it self serving and willfully ignorant.
Also could you not throw phrases like "institutionalized sexism" around? I find it self serving and willfully ignorant.
I'm not talking about wilfull opression here, but a deep-rooted lack of consideration for women or the everyday passive assumption of male dominance/precedence. In the context of this discussion, we're talking about the lazy implementation of female PC options. The fact that it was proposed by another poster that improving the experience for female PCs would somehow be at the cost of male gamers is a little riling. I apologise if anyone sees this as overstating the point, but I believe it's a point that is still on the whole badly understated.
Also could you not throw phrases like "institutionalized sexism" around? I find it self serving and willfully ignorant.
I'm not talking about wilfull opression here, but a deep-rooted lack of consideration for women or the everyday passive assumption of male dominance/precedence. In the context of this discussion, we're talking about the lazy implementation of female PC options. The fact that it was proposed by another poster that improving the experience for female PCs would somehow be at the cost of male gamers is a little riling. I apologise if anyone sees this as overstating the point, but I believe it's a point that is still on the whole badly understated.
I'm not sure I've seen a reference leading me to believe that any confusion or misunderstanding in this thread was made by anyone who believes games/aspects of games catered to females would be a loss to males, because it would not be, unless the game is specifically made for females. This started with my confusion of a post made recently. I am trying to understand why anyone would be surprised or carry with them any disdain beyond a negligible degree about the mostly male-dominant video game industry. Males, by and large, ARE the whole of consumers for the video game industry. Do not dare call that sexist, because it's not. It's a fact. Not all companies place equal amounts of female-friendly and male-friendly content in all of their games because the consumer ratio of Male - Female is NOT equal, nor has it ever been.
It's clear that more female gamers are arising, even on a daily basis, but it's going to be a long time (if it ever happens) before it becomes a relative split. It's not demeaning. It's not sexist. It's not wrong. It's about not spending time and money, thus delaying release of a game, for the benefit of a minority.
"The exception does not make or break the rule." This is a favourite statement of mine to make, but with that being said, we should perhaps remember that Baldur's Gate began around 14 years ago, and if you look at the way games are being made now, there IS more female content. Have any of you in question or anger of the male-dominant games played the Dragon Age series? I've heard that the female characters have just as much content as male. Just as much character creation diversity, voice overs, conversation options, etc. Progress is being made in relative (perhaps very relative) proportion to the slow increase of female gamers.
This entire off-topic "debate" began with me trying to understand someone else's post, and it's gotten off-track. My response from the person I originally replied to aside, I will not be taking part in this, as I have no interest in a debate about sexism. They are, and always will be fruitless, pointless, and unending.
Also could you not throw phrases like "institutionalized sexism" around? I find it self serving and willfully ignorant.
I'm not talking about wilfull opression here, but a deep-rooted lack of consideration for women or the everyday passive assumption of male dominance/precedence. In the context of this discussion, we're talking about the lazy implementation of female PC options. The fact that it was proposed by another poster that improving the experience for female PCs would somehow be at the cost of male gamers is a little riling. I apologise if anyone sees this as overstating the point, but I believe it's a point that is still on the whole badly understated.
Hamfisted attempts at attracting female or casual gamers often do come with costs to the quality of a product (dragon age 2 anyone?) so it's not surprising some people are worried. This is partly an issue of money. Game publishers like EA and Activision always push for shorter development times, more dlc, less bug testing ect. If they can get you to buy a worse product for twice the price then they are happy. If they cut corners for everything else what makes you think they won't be lasy with female PC options? I see this as less of a sexism issue and more of a corporate greed issue.
Since I'm really tired of the myth of female gamers being an overwhelming minority and the myth that its going to take forever until there is some degree of parity amongst the the male demographic to the female demographic.
According to a 2010 study by the Entertainment Consumer Association, female gamers constitute 40% of gamers. Which means for every 3 male gamers there are 2 female gamers. Do they represent a minority, yes. However that minority is a lot bigger than most people want to represent it as.
If that number keeps growing, and there is nothing to suggest its not, then the only logical conclusion is that not only to developers need to spend a little more time editting dialogue, but as @Tilly says, gamers, game forums and their moderators need to seriously examine and ask what kind of environment they want to foster their communities.
Wanted to go half-Orc Berserker for my first run but having looked at good party make-ups I didn't like any of the Mages so as they say if you want a job doing properly do it yourself well at least until Immy duels at lvl 7
Dragonspear wrote: "...And trust me I'd LOVE them to add the bladesinger kit."
Indeed. I would go for it like Boo for wicked eyes. Although it does put a slight strain on credibility (which nothing else in the game does, *cough*, *cough*). I can see a dialogue with Kivan:
Kivan: You say you are a bladesinger? Charname: Yes. Kivan: But you grew up in Candlekeep? Charname: Yes. Kivan: But it takes years, decades of dedicated training to become a bladesinger! Charname: There was a book. Kivan: A BOOK??? But you can't... it cannot... Charname: It's a big book. And it has pictures. Look, I have it with me here! Kivan: But... Charname: I'm already well into chapter three.
Comments
Nothing wrong with having FR-lore. I'm always surprised at how much some people know. I hardly now anything beyond what's in the game.
*edit: past tense of choose is chose - oops.
50/50? There must be a huge amount of females that play, dress, look, and act like men.
To make my point a little clearer: The gender demographics of gamers and the sexism evident in a lot of games development have presumably been feeding one another for decades. Most games are male-oriented because most gamers are male, and there are fewer female gamers because most games are male-oriented. It's a sad, self-perpetuating spiral of gender imbalance in the industry.
I said the potential market was 50/50 gender split. That is to say the wider population that games could appeal to.
Hopefully this mini rant came out the right way and won't start a flame war. Also could you not throw phrases like "institutionalized sexism" around? I find it self serving and willfully ignorant.
It's clear that more female gamers are arising, even on a daily basis, but it's going to be a long time (if it ever happens) before it becomes a relative split. It's not demeaning. It's not sexist. It's not wrong. It's about not spending time and money, thus delaying release of a game, for the benefit of a minority.
"The exception does not make or break the rule." This is a favourite statement of mine to make, but with that being said, we should perhaps remember that Baldur's Gate began around 14 years ago, and if you look at the way games are being made now, there IS more female content. Have any of you in question or anger of the male-dominant games played the Dragon Age series? I've heard that the female characters have just as much content as male. Just as much character creation diversity, voice overs, conversation options, etc. Progress is being made in relative (perhaps very relative) proportion to the slow increase of female gamers.
This entire off-topic "debate" began with me trying to understand someone else's post, and it's gotten off-track. My response from the person I originally replied to aside, I will not be taking part in this, as I have no interest in a debate about sexism. They are, and always will be fruitless, pointless, and unending.
According to a 2010 study by the Entertainment Consumer Association, female gamers constitute 40% of gamers. Which means for every 3 male gamers there are 2 female gamers. Do they represent a minority, yes. However that minority is a lot bigger than most people want to represent it as.
If that number keeps growing, and there is nothing to suggest its not, then the only logical conclusion is that not only to developers need to spend a little more time editting dialogue, but as @Tilly says, gamers, game forums and their moderators need to seriously examine and ask what kind of environment they want to foster their communities.
Humans are boring.......if i could i'd be full orc.
might be a Duergar if i can, it all depends on what races are available.
I'd love for them to implement a Bladesinger kit but I doubt they can since its race specific =(
Ya but I dunno how they'd even implement kits for multi classes. And trust me I'd LOVE them to add the bladesinger kit.
But I was always so sad, that one can not play Planetouched in BG...
Indeed. I would go for it like Boo for wicked eyes. Although it does put a slight strain on credibility (which nothing else in the game does, *cough*, *cough*). I can see a dialogue with Kivan:
Kivan: You say you are a bladesinger?
Charname: Yes.
Kivan: But you grew up in Candlekeep?
Charname: Yes.
Kivan: But it takes years, decades of dedicated training to become a bladesinger!
Charname: There was a book.
Kivan: A BOOK??? But you can't... it cannot...
Charname: It's a big book. And it has pictures. Look, I have it with me here!
Kivan: But...
Charname: I'm already well into chapter three.