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How well will a backstabber that didn't invest any points in stealth and isn't a part-mage fare.

I'm thinking about playing a backstabber that would rely on spells to go invisible to backstab
(mainly the lvl.2 Wizard spell cast by Jan or someone else in the party) and spend Thief points on something else.
Will this works out without too much trouble?
Also what classes would be good for this setup. I think I'm going to try Kensai 9->Thief.
But if someone here has better or more interesting ideas please tell me.


  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    edited February 2019
    Sooner or later you WILL invest in stealth, simply because there is nothing else left for you to put your points into. If you don't want that, don't dualclass to thief, dualclass away from it (to mage or cleric).

    But sure, it's certainly viable. It's just a little more expensive. Depending on your playstyle, that's not a problem though. You certainly will not be killing groups of enemies with only backstabs unless you expend numerous potions of invisibility. But to many people, backstabbing is just how the thief enters the battle and potentially how one takes down the enemy wizard after momentarily having stripped away the protection spells. So that means 1 or 2 backstabs in a fight, and you can certainly afford those.

    What will your thief do for the remainder of the fight? Will you use throwing knives to keep the unarmored kensai away from the frontline until you can wrap them up in proper armor with UAI? The advantage of a cleric->thief dualclass would be that you have armor from the beginning. Remember to put points into non-cleric weapons while you still can! Short sword, scimitar, maybe short bow as well.

    Edit: The serious disadvantage of the Cleric-Thief is that the Pick Pockets/Remove Traps button is moved to the special skills menu, which is seriously irritating if you do either of this things with any sort of regularity. I guess shortkeys might help with that.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,810
    edited February 2019
    Unless you're a Shadowdancer, your strategy will be ok. Just have a secondary plan if your initial backstab fails. Unless you're a fighter/thief the chance of a missed backstab is pretty high...

  • MangamancerMangamancer Member Posts: 17
    edited February 2019
    I'm also curious about items that grant invisibility per day.
    Having even one or two of these early on in SoA would probably helps a lot.
    If someone would lists such items and where to find them I would be very grateful.

    edit: After some searching I'm now aware of a few rings like that.
    wondering if there are other types of items with similar properties though.

  • Oswald81Oswald81 Member Posts: 53
    Its them and the potions. And backstabbing lose its luster after a while. The best I personally have done as a combo with backstabbing is a hasted tthief-thing and Keldorn's dispel just before. Then the mage is backstabbed and the rest should be handled by the party and such. The rings and cloak of non-detection are wwesome, but can only be got through tough battles.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,855
    If you're playing unmodded then it's easy to get the invisibility ring in the Crooked Crane - just use a PfU scroll. You can do the same to kill the other liches and Kangaxx as well - the Ring of Gaxx provides invisibility in addition to its other wonderful attributes.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited February 2019
    If you use Deities of Faerun, some Clerics will have access to Invisibility as a spell and/or special ability (Quayle and Glint for sure).

    And Silence 15' foot can also be used to give a boost to MS of 100% ( from the next version - 1.9.5 - onwards).

    Should make this plan even more doable. As for investing your points, if you use @OlvynChuru 's Epic Thieving mod you'll be able to do lots of new stuff with skills above 100%.

  • MangamancerMangamancer Member Posts: 17
    edited February 2019
    Thank you you guys for replying.
    I also have a question about the base thac0.
    My lvl.9 Kensai->Thief will have the base thac0 of 12 right?
    does that mean when the Thief part get to lvl.21 his base thac0 will become 10?

    edit: I'm also am having a doubt about my Kensai->Thief.
    Maybe Fighter/Thief will be better after all?
    What's the enemy AC in ToB like? will my Kensai 9->Thief misses a lot there?
    I have researched a bit and dragons in SoA have AC lower than -10.
    Will this become worse in ToB? how will my Kensai->Thief fares against such foes when compare to F/T.
    Will F/T backstab damge be enough to one shot most enemies?
    I originally chose Kensai->Thief because he got nice damage bonuses that would get multiplied by backstab.
    (form being Kensai and weapon grandmastery).
    But If F/T can one shot most enemies just find then I might choose F/T instead for better thac0.

    Post edited by Mangamancer on
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