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How much HP should I have (bug?)

Hi,

because I could not live to see patch 2.6 I've started my play-through on 2.5 - I've imported my character from my old BGEE:SoD play-though and started BG2EE on Ancestry of Bhaal level and with option "Max HP on level" on.

My charname is lawful good half-elf Cleric (10)/Mage (11) with stats 10 / 19 / 19 / 19 / 21 / 19 - when I started the game my charname had level 9 in cleric class and 81 HP. After getting back my Helm of Balduran and one level up in cleric my charname had 87 HP (5 HP from Helm of Balduran).

And during quest Cult of Unseeing Eye I have recall that I can summon a familiar (pseudo-dragon with 24 HP) and when I did it... booom charname has 121 HP (5 HP from Helm of Balduran).

Is this correct? Or is it a bug? How many HP should have lawful good half-elf Cleric (10)/Mage (11) with stats 10 / 19 / 19 / 19 / 21 / 19 assuming Max HP on level since level 1 / 1 (with and without familiar)?

I played BGEE + SoD + BG2EE without mods (I've only disable experience cap).

Comments

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    A familiar in SoA gives you less HP than a familiar in ToB, which is why I never use the spell until after I have made the transition.
    I have just made a C/M 10/11 with con19 (really, 16 would suffice) and she has 76 HP, so there is already a discrepancy.
    A pseudo dragon in Baldur's Gate 1 should give you 6 HP. So if you used the spell, that would mean you are lacking a HP.
    What I assume happened is that you somehow kept the HP from the Helm of Balduran when you imported the character.

    A pseudo dragon in Shadows of Amn should give you 12 HP.
    So the only way I can see you getting to 121 HP is that you buffed yourself. There are a number of spells that could temporarily raise your HP. I am not going to try guessing which one is the culprit.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    @Humanoid_Taifun There may have been some buffs when I did final save in BGEE and SoD, I don't know. Now I do not have any buff and after I take off helm of Balduran I have 116 HP.

    Summoning a familiar was first thing I did in Candlekeep I have it through whole BGEE and SoD. But when i summon it in Copper Coronet it gave mi whooping 34 HP.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    @Humanoid_Taifun

    Assumming this table is correct (seems legit): https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Cleric_/_Mage#Table_for_experience.2C_weapon_proficiency_points_and_hitpoints my C10/M11 should have 58 HP from class progression . But I'm not sure how many HP my C10/M11 should have from constitution bonus. I suppose that 19 HP, but I'm not sure. This gives 77 HP. And I should have 12 HP from pseudo-dragon?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    both righteous magic and holy power buff hp. duhm directly don't but does it as rise con.
    i don't know if having a toon buffed in the last savegame carry the buff benefits while importing him into the next game. if so it would be at the same time a wonderful exploit, a bad cheese (depending on player's taste) and a bug as player that don't want that happening have to choose a not wanted bonus or avoiding to buff for the last battle.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    @Humanoid_Taifun @gorgonzola

    I've downloaded EEKeeper, correct me if I'm wrong, but I should insert:

    Base HP: 70 (58 from C10/M11 and 12 from pseudo-dragon)
    Current HP: 75 (Base HP + 5 HP from Helm of Balduran)

    and after clicking "Update Bonus Stats" I should have 88 HP?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    Hadar wrote: »
    with option "Max HP on level" on.
    it makes the game a lot more easy, the added hp are often the difference between victory or to die, between to die or to survive a nasty spell. in my book a game with max hp level on is not hard even if played on the most difficult setting. but is legitimate to do it, is a proper player choice.
    Hadar wrote: »
    lawful good half-elf Cleric (10)/Mage (11) with stats 10 / 19 / 19 / 19 / 21 / 19
    that is a grand total of 107, even considering the tomes you used a very high starting roll. this combined with max hp leveling up makes the game even more easy
    Hadar wrote: »
    And during quest Cult of Unseeing Eye I have recall that I can summon a familiar (pseudo-dragon with 24 HP) and when I did it... booom charname has 121 HP (5 HP from Helm of Balduran).

    Summoning a familiar was first thing I did in Candlekeep I have it through whole BGEE and SoD. But when i summon it in Copper Coronet it gave mi whooping 34 HP.

    in the old days before ee some people used to leave the familiar in some sure place and waited for him fade away to cast an other without the bad consequences of having it die in battle or others started a game, summoned the familiar and imported the toon in a new game to stack the familiar hp bonus. repeating the second trick enough time you could have a character with 1000 or more hp.
    as you summoned a familiar both in candlekeep and in cc maybe something similar happened, even if is a legittimate player choice to summon a familiar in all the games. if so this is a game bug.
    Hadar wrote: »
    started BG2EE on Ancestry of Bhaal level
    I played BGEE + SoD + BG2EE without mods (I've only disable experience cap).
    ancestry of bhaal? if you mean legacy of bhaal i can understand why you used max hp on level up, very high starting roll and disabled the cap, in that mode the enemies have so much advantage that every possible advantage you take is completely justified. other way, but even googling i could not find anything about ancestry of bhaal, to give so much advantage to charname for a not modded game spoil all the fun as the game becomes far too easy.

    i am not able to do the math for multi hp, i can for single class or dual class, so i can not tell you how much hp your toon should have.

    Hadar
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    @gorgonzola I just misread the OP. Hadar said that the character had 82 HP at 10/11, which fits my numbers of 76+6.
    The only problem is that the familiar gave him 34 HP, which it really should not.

    @Hadar If you have a savegame from before you summoned the familiar, would you be willing to test if you can get different numbers of HP from it? Perhaps if you change the difficulty setting?

    In any case, your HP should be 22 points less than what they are now.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    an other possible bug is that casting the familiar while with hp buffed, i can not tell if by spells only or also by items, the game takes the hp he has at that moment, adds the hp of the familiar and then set the hp to that value. i am only hypothesizing, at now i don't have any save game of a charname C/M to test it and npcs can not cast the familiar.
    @Hadar if you have a suited savegame can you please test it and report the results?
    both righteous magic and holy power add 1hp for each level the cleric has. as the toon had at that moment 11 levels of cleric with both the spells active it is 22, the same of @Humanoid_Taifun calculation.
    then you have also to test if that bonus hp fades away as the spells expire, then everything is fine, or remain and we have found a bug.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2019
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Hadar wrote: »
    with option "Max HP on level" on.
    it makes the game a lot more easy, the added hp are often the difference between victory or to die, between to die or to survive a nasty spell. in my book a game with max hp level on is not hard even if played on the most difficult setting. but is legitimate to do it, is a proper player choice.

    I was always powergamer trying to maximize power of my characters in any game.
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Hadar wrote: »
    lawful good half-elf Cleric (10)/Mage (11) with stats 10 / 19 / 19 / 19 / 21 / 19
    that is a grand total of 107, even considering the tomes you used a very high starting roll. this combined with max hp leveling up makes the game even more easy

    I've started with 9 / 18 / 18 / 18 / 18 / 18 (total: 99). I assume that as the bhaalspawn who defeats all other bhaalspawns I can have higher stats than Imoen (87) and Sarevok (95 with 18/00 strength). Furthermore constitution over 16 is useless for me and charisma has very little affect on this game, so this charname is not such overpower as it looks to be, because if I've start with 9 / 18 / 16 / 18 / 18 / 10 (total: 89) it would be basically the same.
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Hadar wrote: »
    And during quest Cult of Unseeing Eye I have recall that I can summon a familiar (pseudo-dragon with 24 HP) and when I did it... booom charname has 121 HP (5 HP from Helm of Balduran).

    Summoning a familiar was first thing I did in Candlekeep I have it through whole BGEE and SoD. But when i summon it in Copper Coronet it gave mi whooping 34 HP.

    in the old days before ee some people used to leave the familiar in some sure place and waited for him fade away to cast an other without the bad consequences of having it die in battle or others started a game, summoned the familiar and imported the toon in a new game to stack the familiar hp bonus. repeating the second trick enough time you could have a character with 1000 or more hp.
    as you summoned a familiar both in candlekeep and in cc maybe something similar happened, even if is a legittimate player choice to summon a familiar in all the games. if so this is a game bug.

    I do not want to use some obvious exploits. Off course I want to have as powerful charname as he can be, but according with rules.
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Hadar wrote: »
    started BG2EE on Ancestry of Bhaal level
    I played BGEE + SoD + BG2EE without mods (I've only disable experience cap).
    ancestry of bhaal? if you mean legacy of bhaal i can understand why you used max hp on level up, very high starting roll and disabled the cap, in that mode the enemies have so much advantage that every possible advantage you take is completely justified. other way, but even googling i could not find anything about ancestry of bhaal, to give so much advantage to charname for a not modded game spoil all the fun as the game becomes far too easy.

    i am not able to do the math for multi hp, i can for single class or dual class, so i can not tell you how much hp your toon should have.

    Yes, I meant Legacy of Bhaal (Dziedzictwo Bhaala in Polish) - English is not my native language and I play Infinity Engine Games in Polish so I can sometimes translate wrongly some term from Polish to English. I apologize for the inconvenience.

    I've played SoD on insane difficulty and it was mostly OK. But going through Irenicus Prison on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty without magical gear was a nightmare - only critical hits connected... And in Athkatla I had to delay some quest because some fights demands tone of replays and much luck. Now I'm stuck against two Wandering Horrors and for now my only idea is two use Hold Undead (I beg it to work on Wandering Horrors) - I've returned to Athkatla to learn Neera and Jan Jansen this spell and then I have recalled that I did not summon a familiar, hence this topic. ;P

    I hope that with Gauntlets of Dexterity for Keldorn Firecam and some magical hammer and shield for my C10/M11 (as for now he has non-magical hammer and non-magical small shield) this game will become less frustrating.

    gorgonzola
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,978
    The reason for the extra HPs is you're playing in Legacy of Bhaal. When playing in that enemies, summons and familiars all get extra HPs. Enemies and summons get 3x + 80 (where x is their original HPs), but familiars get a reduced benefit of 2x + 20. The standard SoA familiar gets 24 HPs, which is increased to 68 - meaning you got the correct 50% bonus of 34 from that.

    As you've found, summoning a familiar in LoB is worthwhile :p. They're also far better in combat relatively speaking than in the standard game. They get more HPs, but they don't take more damage (the double damage for party members does not affect familiars).

    Beware though getting your familiar killed. Not only do you lose the bonus HPs, but also a temporary penalty of double that - which can easily kill you.

    gorgonzolaHadar
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2019
    @Humanoid_Taifun @gorgonzola

    When I load save before summoning familiar with 87 HP (which is too much because it should be 76 or 77, depending on how exactly constitution bonus is calculated in BG2EE) and summon the familiar I again get 34 HP. No buffs, only Helm of Balduran on and Minor Sequencer Active (which do not have spell modifying HP or constitution).

    When I took of Helm of Balduran I summon familiar (with 82 HP) I still receive 34 HP, that is 116 HP in total without Helm of Balduran.

    And I cannot change Legacy of Bhaal difficulty to lower - you choose it on game start and you cannot lower it.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    @Grond0

    Thank you for the answer. Can anybody confirm that 68 HP for pseudo-dragon and 34 HP for lawful good cleric from having a familiar are correct values as creators intended ( @JuliusBorisov maybe?)?

    Regardless familiar there was still bug while importing a character because it gave me permanently the boost from Helm of Balduran after loosing equipment (damn Irenicus!).

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    It was not the helm, it was your familiar.

    Grond0Hadar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited March 2019
    @Hadar
    as you confirm that you are playing legacy of bhaal as i told i can perfectly understand why you maximized you power. even with a maximized charname legacy is more then hard enough.
    but as i don't know you i could not tell if you are an experienced player or a novice trying to maximize it even in an environment that does not need it, thing that can make the game too easy so spoil all the fun.
    now your position is clear to me. anyway no offense or judgment on what an other player does in his own game.

    when i was talking of those old day tricks i was not suggesting them, i was only considering the possibility that casting familiar in 2 games give some similar but not wanted similar effect.

    i created a new game with a c/m charname, eekeepered him xp to have the righteous magic and holy power spells available and i tested.
    indeed the hp bonus from those spells and from familiar stack, but as they expire the hp resets to the familiar bonus only, so we don't have a bug.
    but this is not your case, @Grond0 explained why it happens.

    Hadar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,978
    As @Humanoid_Taifun says the reason you had more HPs than you expected is that when you import characters into a new game they don't bring the familiar along, but they do keep the original HPs that the familiar contributed to. In SoD you were presumably not playing LoB, so your familiar just gave you the standard bonus of 6 extra HPs. Whether you count that as a bug and reduce the HPs is up to you ...

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisovHadar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    so importing a toon trough the 3 games and then importing the last soa savegame into a new tob run can give up to 4 familiar hp bonuses stacking. this can be an interesting exploit for soloers as for them loosing the xp of the companions starting a new tob is not a problem.

  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2019
    @Humanoid_Taifun
    Yes, you probably right, because as C9/M11 I should have 75 HP. Having a familiar gave me additional 6 HP and that sums up to 81 HP that is my starting HP after importing character to BG2EE. That seems to me as bug.

    @gorgonzola
    I think that @Grond0 found the reason why familiar gives mi 34 HP

    @Grond0
    Thank you I understand know, but still this is bug for me that after import I still have HP from familiar.
    And yes, in SoD I've played insane (because I've change difficulty level during game, and I can only chose Legacy of Bhaal on the beginning).

    To sum up my C10/M11 should have 58 HP from class progression, 18 HP from constitution bonus, 34 HP from pseudo-dragon and 5 HP from Helm of Balduran. That is 92 Base HP, 97 Current HP and 115 total HP (without Helm of Balduran 110).

    Grond0JuliusBorisov
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 168
    @gorgonzola

    I suppose there is no problem with importing BGEE to SoD - if I remember correctly I've had correct HP and familiar in my backpack when I went from BGEE to SoD. But I cannot check it now - although I have old save games I do not have BGEE+SoD installed.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,978
    For the transfer to SoD you do keep all your possessions (including your familiar). I think the same applies to importing to ToB, though I'm not sure I've ever tried that.

    HadarJuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    i don't own sod so i can not tell it.
    but if you had both hp and familiar all is fine.
    about the 6 more points importing from sod, and probably also directly from bg to soa i also regard it as a bug.
    you can report it here
    https://support.baldursgate.com/
    and maybe make some other player that liked the exploit not happy :)
    as the import in sod is correctly implemented i assume that you report will be successful and the bug is inherited from the old not ee version of the game.
    the proposed behavior should be to have the import into bg2 work as the one in sod, maybe whit 6 hp points added to match the hp bonus a player starting from soa gets.

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