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Needed fix for uncanny dodge and defensive awareness mix up bug

Holy_RoninHoly_Ronin Member Posts: 5
edited April 2019 in General Discussions NWN:EE
Hey guys, I don't know if this is where this is supposed to go but i've been doing some digging and i'm finding that the monk and rogue classes have some major issues with the new EE port. I'm going to do each seperately once I figure out where this post is supposed to go, so I can give all the details of the issues but the jist of these two issues is that, for the rogue the sneak attack doesn't work against something that has unncanny dodge as if that creature had the dwarven defenders defensive awarness, which are two completely different things even though in the description they sound very similar. And also the monk's stunning fist has been all but nulified making with it being reduced to one round instead of three but as I said i'm going to post in detail about these issues once I know where to post these. If beamdog can do it, great. If not, i'll look for another fix for the community to use, to those that would like to. Just let me know where this post is supposed to go. Thanks


Holy_Ronin

Post edited by Holy_Ronin on

Comments

  • Sylvus_MoonbowSylvus_Moonbow Member Posts: 1,026
    edited April 2019
    Stunning Fist was patched in the Enhanced Edition to one round to match the ruleset, so that is not a bug.

    Uncanny Dodge can be extremely helpful for dexterity-based builds in avoiding attacks from hidden creatures, as it allows retention of what could be a significant portion of their AC. So maybe that is what you are running into?

    As far as I see via the patch notes, Uncanny Dodge was not modified.

  • Holy_RoninHoly_Ronin Member Posts: 5
    edited April 2019
    I don't think you fully understand the bug at hand maybe i didn't explain it correctly or you overlooked it in my post. If you have uncanny dodge you are immune to sneak attacks when being flanked as if you had the defensive awareness feat of the dwarven defender. The two feats have the same description so it's easy to make the mistake of thinking they are the same. I'm pretty sure its a bug in the code an easily mistake given the terms.

    Prince_Raymond
  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 532
    edited April 2019
    They do not make you immune
    Defensive awareness 2 is = Improved Uncanny Dodge
    This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

    If they gave it to normal unncanny dodge then it is a bug, but if you have a character with both they should be working as normal as mentioned above.
    I believe they did mention this in one of the past patch notes.

    dTd
  • Holy_RoninHoly_Ronin Member Posts: 5
    edited April 2019
    A barbarian being immune to flanking sneak attacks regardless of the rogues level doesn't make sense. And it isn't uncanny dodge 2, it's uncanny dodge in general. That being said. If you gave uncanny dodge, as it is now, to a creature you wanted to make basically immune to flanking sneak attacks it would be able to be immune to flanking sneak attacks, as if it were a dwarven defender. NWN original did not have this, the only class that was able to be immune to flanking sneak attacks as stated above was, the dwarven defender, in it's defensive stance; which makes sense. I tested out my hypothesis and it is definitely a bug with the definitions of the two feats. It has nothing to do with the level or anything like that of the rogue or person with uncanny dodge. If you don't understand, test it. Apply uncanny dodge to a creature and see that it can't be flank-sneak attacked at all. You think it's a.. ruleset change, but this bug I assure you is not. Maybe i should rename the title of the post so as not to confuse people. Also, improved uncanny dodge is not a nwn 1 feat. You're talking about nwn 2. I understand you're trying to help, I appreciate it. But this is a definite bug with two feats for nwn 1. If you're unsure about what is going on, please re-read what information I have posted and if you don't know what i'm talking about you can let someone else post who understands before you chime in. This is an issue with two feats that have the same definition, but are two completely different feats being mixed up into one.

    Prince_Raymond
  • Holy_RoninHoly_Ronin Member Posts: 5
    I'll post screenshots as to make things more clear, and not confuse anyone who may think this is a ruleset change as it clearly,Is not: 2wjywoxrobcd.jpg

    uns8ye2l9cvu.jpg

    Prince_Raymond
  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 532
    edited April 2019
    No it a rule change, all you showing me is that BD forgot to update the default tlk file to reflect this. Have you tested with a rogue of high level vs DD. Ohh I did found the patch notes. Here the link to the pdf top of page 8
    https://www.beamdog.com/files/release_notes/nwnee_release_notes_final.pdf
    Fix to Uncanny Dodge 2 feat (higher-level rogues
    are now allowed to attack lesser rogues with
    Sneak/Death attacks) and I think in a later patch note they refer to the defensive stance.

    Sylvus_MoonbowdTd
  • Holy_RoninHoly_Ronin Member Posts: 5
    I read what you posted. I checked the change logs, this says nothing about unncany dodge and defensive stance having the same affect. All it says is that rogues of higher level can now sneak attack/death attack rogues with lower levels. My point still stands. Please again. I appriciate you trying to help Shadow. But this is a bug with the definitions of the two feats. The screenshots don't lie. Have YOU tested a rogue flank sneak attaking anyone with the uncanny dodge 1 feat (barbarian,shadow dancer etc.) Any character that is not a rogue with uncanny dodge 1 to test your hypothesis? I came to this conclusion because i did my do diligence and i figured this out rather quickly. As i said the screenshots don't lie. And if you think it is a rule change what logical reason can you give to make sense of a barbarian at level 2 being immune to being flanked. Again thanks for the response but the idea of a level difference change and all that is wrong. The screenshots tell all. Thanks again and please respond only with what you know and not think. I'm trying to get beamdogs attention to fix this bug. Thank you much appriciated

  • Prince_RaymondPrince_Raymond Member Posts: 290
    edited April 2019
    @Holy_Ronin I get what you're saying, and I believe you are correct. My advice would be to report this bug on Redmine. You can also try to contact @Shaiden on the NWN:EE Technical Support Forum. I Hope this helps. Thank you for reading, and happy gaming to all.

    Holy_Ronin
  • tfoxtfox Member Posts: 87
    I don't see a bug here short of the description not having been updated to match. It was changed to act more like the feat does in 3.x that the NWN is based on.

    If your Rogue is 4 levels higher then the total of the classes that progress Uncanny Dodge (Rogue, Barbarian, Assassin and Shadowdancer), they can sneak attack them as though they didn't have the feat.

    A level 8 Barbarian/ Rogue (12 Uncanny Dodge Levels) vs a level 15 Rogue, can't be sneak attacked unless striking from stealth/invisibility or the opponent is incapacitated somehow (Knocked down, paralyzed, stunned, etc etc).

    A level 12 Barbarian vs a level 16 Rogue, can be flanked for sneak attack.

    dTd
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