Nothing dispels critical hit or whirlwind. That translates to 10 attacks per round or 5 criticals per round without the haste. Offensive spin plus dual wielding plus haste gets the bard to 5 attacks per round at a much lower THACO. Defensive spin leaves the bard rooted to the spot with only 2 attacks per round.
I don't see this as a "never ending" battle of theoreticals.
If both sides can prep for the battle I can somewhat get that (although chain contingencies would seem to render the battle over pretty quickly).
Again, providing the character can even hit the Blade in defensive spin (which lasts much longer than the 1 round whirlwind and 1 round critical strike, rendering them unable to use together, I think?) which can easily hit the AC cap, combined with all sorts of defensive spells (stoneskin, mirror image). 10 attacks per round at max damage mean nothing if you can only hit with rolling 20. (and not even a critical hit as both sides have UAI for helmets). The Thac0 difference can be worked around with Tenser's Transformation, too. It seems a moot point to me. As for Critical Stike, mirror image solves those "getting hit 5 times" problems. As does stoneskin.
The never ending theoreticals becomes:
F/T/M: I have max attacks per round and max damage Bard: I have spell defenses and defensive spin F/T/M: I disable your magic defenses and no longer have whirlwind etc active Bard: I can cast X (the above example being a powerful fire arrow) F/T/M: I can put my defenses up with a contingency Bard: I disable your defenses F/T/M: I reactivate my HLA's Bard: I reactivate defensive spin
A really good bard would talk the F/M/T out of wanting to kick his ass in the first place. If that failed, he'd gallantly suggest you use the back alley for the duel, which, conveniently, he'd seeded with HLA spike traps before you arrived. He'd flirted with the cute barmaid until she told him about the F/M/T with something to prove, so he set the stage early.
10 attacks per round at max damage mean nothing if you can only hit with rolling 20. (and not even a critical hit as both sides have UAI for helmets). The Thac0 difference can be worked around with Tenser's Transformation, too. It seems a moot point to me. As for Critical Stike, mirror image solves those "getting hit 5 times" problems. As does stoneskin.
Again, providing the character can even hit the Blade in defensive spin (which lasts much longer than the 1 round whirlwind and 1 round critical strike, rendering them unable to use together, I think?) which can easily hit the AC cap, combined with all sorts of defensive spells (stoneskin, mirror image).
Critical hit never misses. I'm not sure if I am communicating that correctly. The thief's see illusion ability pumped up with 20+ levels of thief also means near instant destruction of all illusions without using an action for the round - better than true seeing since it also is immune to the 5th level spell immunity spell (unlike the F/T/M who can be immune to true sight with the spell). During the defensive spin, the bard is then rooted to the spot which is nice for the opposition strategically and his offense is nearly non-existant for that round.
Stoneskin and protection from magic weapons are the only real defense against physical attacks and both are susceptible to a breach.
Also, I'm not sure how you are calculating the idea of only hitting with a 20 but by the time you are a level 20 fighter with magic weapons (1 base thaco), specialization (+1), equipment bonuses (+5 with TOB weapons; +1 with weapon gauntlets), strength bonuses (+4), etc. I think your number is off unless the bard is hitting -30 or lower ACs (without the advantage of blur or similar illusions which can be dispelled by the detect illusion ability very quickly at high levels).
The never ending theoreticals becomes:
F/T/M: I have max attacks per round and max damage Bard: I have spell defenses and defensive spin F/T/M: I disable your magic defenses and no longer have whirlwind etc active Bard: I can cast X (the above example being a powerful fire arrow) F/T/M: I can put my defenses up with a contingency Bard: I disable your defenses F/T/M: I reactivate my HLA's Bard: I reactivate defensive spin
Etc.
The only theoretical to me becomes a question of the magic. Both have enough magic to destroy the other so that to me is more theotical (although spells like the globe of invulnerability are actually very useful against a bard such as giving immunity to flame arrow and skull trap). Casting time becomes an issue with that since the F/T/M can use the Robe of Vecna and near instant cast most spells while the Bard doesn't have the same advantage. After casting, the F/T/M can use the high base attacks and better weapon effects as well - such as dual wielding the flail of ages with the slow effect with belm for 5 attacks per round base when not backstabbing.
The biggest strategic question for the bard in terms of magic is how he is going to use his 6th level spells. Protection from magic weapons, contingency, and true seeing are all 6th level spells. Against an opponent that can backstab when unseen (or anytime with the assassination ability), true seeing seems essential. Contingency can only reraise one defense while burning both a 6th level spell and either another 6th level for PMW or another 4th level spell for stoneskin which means those will be burned through faster than the 5th level breaches - especially if several of those spots are taken for true seeing and PMW.
In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M.
A really good bard would talk the F/M/T out of wanting to kick his ass in the first place. If that failed, he'd gallantly suggest you use the back alley for the duel, which, conveniently, he'd seeded with HLA spike traps before you arrived. He'd flirted with the cute barmaid until she told him about the F/M/T with something to prove, so he set the stage early.
That works unless the F/M/T seeded the back alley with HLA spike traps while the bard was flirting with the cute barmaid. (I like this answer, though!)
A bard struggles to solo BG1 (although it is doable), while I haven't had much trouble with a F/M/T - sneak, sleep, backstab. Rinse, repeat.
I'm a huge Bard fan, but I have to concede at level 1, it doesn't matter that the Blade has an offensive and defensive spin, that F/M/T has more hp and higher THAC0. The blade has only one option for most of BG1, and that's a shortbow and a lot of kiting.
A really good bard would talk the F/M/T out of wanting to kick his ass in the first place. If that failed, he'd gallantly suggest you use the back alley for the duel, which, conveniently, he'd seeded with HLA spike traps before you arrived. He'd flirted with the cute barmaid until she told him about the F/M/T with something to prove, so he set the stage early.
That's the spirit! People don't choose bards because of their power . Bard are chosen because they're supposed to be fun.
I find the opposite. A F/M/T with a stealth build for the T part can pretty well dominate all stages of BG. If you run with a reduced party to concentrate the XP, this is even more the case.
A bard struggles to solo BG1 (although it is doable), while I haven't had much trouble with a F/M/T - sneak, sleep, backstab. Rinse, repeat.
Running solo, especially if you mod the game to remove level caps, changes the equation, but even if you use good strategy, metagame furiously, and use your knowledge of the location of easter eggs like the ring of wizardry and ankheg armor, any 1st level character is highly vulnerable to death from a random arrow, unlucky failed save, or botched attack, especially if they are all alone. The bard's advantage is that they climb out of the critical danger zone far more quickly than the F/M/T. If you don't consider reloading to be a form of failure, then it doesn't matter, but if you play the game as though you can't reload (whether or not you actually do) then you want to get to 3rd or 4th level ASAP.
At 1st level, the most generically resilient and capable character is probably the cleric/fighter (or cleric/ranger) and that class remains potent throughout the entire series. The F/M/T has better early game capabilities than the other classes that become hyperpowered at the end, such as the sorcerer, kensai/thief or kensai/mage, but they still spend a good portion of the game being quite fragile compared to other classes that have good prospects from start to finish.
That is, incidentally, why I find classes like the sorcerer, F/M/T, K/T and K/M boring to play: they need to be nursmaided at low levels and can walk over everything at high levels, leaving only a small window where they are tactically interesting to play.
At 1st level, the most generically resilient and capable character is probably the cleric/fighter (or cleric/ranger) and that class remains potent throughout the entire series. The F/M/T has better early game capabilities than the other classes that become hyperpowered at the end, such as the sorcerer, kensai/thief or kensai/mage, but they still spend a good portion of the game being quite fragile compared to other classes that have good prospects from start to finish.
That is, incidentally, why I find classes like the sorcerer, F/M/T, K/T and K/M boring to play: they need to be nursmaided at low levels and can walk over everything at high levels, leaving only a small window where they are tactically interesting to play.
This is really well put. I agree. Power-builds that are babysat until high levels are a bore. By the time they're "ultra powerful," everyone else is pretty damn powerful too in their own right. Dual-classing is such a drag.
Someone said something about Defensive Spin rooting the blade into place.
This is true; however it can be avoided by Free Action.
Seriously, this is one of the more pointless theorycrafting debates. It'll come down to who gets the drop on the other guy. Seriously. If either guy manages to escape the opening barrage, it'd be pretty easy to simply run away from the other.
It's a never-ending "well if he does this, I do this, but then he'll do this, so I'll do this." They are practically the same exact thing. They are both hyper versatile at that level, which is the appeal of either build.
I've never played with a bard in BG or BG2, but just had a runthrough of Icewind Dale with a bard. I assume the bard abilities are not exactly the same in the different games, but in Icewind Dale my bard rocked!
Especially the 'hold monster' song and the one that improves armour class and heals. Fantastic
Seriously, this is one of the more pointless theorycrafting debates. It'll come down to who gets the drop on the other guy. Seriously. If either guy manages to escape the opening barrage, it'd be pretty easy to simply run away from the other.
It's a never-ending "well if he does this, I do this, but then he'll do this, so I'll do this." They are practically the same exact thing. They are both hyper versatile at that level, which is the appeal of either build.
Yeah, well, for me this wasn't that obvious at the beginning. But now I think it's really a 50 - 50 fight that depends on who times & lands the spells properly.
I did however gain alot of insight from this debate, so for me at least, it wasn't pointless at all. As pointed out the FMT has more "stable" power, with better avg. thac0, wider spell range, backstab... However some of you made the point that the Bard is more "bursty", having lvl40 for base calculation for spells granting him some temporary advantages and higher magical output with single spells.
Since I allready played a Bard once, I think I'll go with FMT next
They are practically the same exact thing. They are both hyper versatile at that level, which is the appeal of either build.
I agree both are very versatile, but I see a lot of difference at that stage - especially if you are just playing the game normally. The difference is that by that point in the game, the F/M/T is no longer gimped in fighting ability relative to a level 40 fighter while the Bard still needs a lot more management. If you don't want to babysit your characters by prebuffing relentlessly, a F/T/M dual wielding or using Ravager / Carsomyr, etc. can be used just like a powerful warrior where you just run in and hack things to death without thinking about it - perhaps even more easily since it is a warrior with Stoneskin. The detect illusion aspect of it is also very low maintenance - especially if you have your T using the script to search for traps at all times. The fact that the F/M/T is a full-grown warrior at that point with the ability to project image, mordy sword, etc. as a caster is what makes it a huge difference in normal gameplay for me.
I find the opposite. A F/M/T with a stealth build for the T part can pretty well dominate all stages of BG. If you run with a reduced party to concentrate the XP, this is even more the case.
A bard struggles to solo BG1 (although it is doable), while I haven't had much trouble with a F/M/T - sneak, sleep, backstab. Rinse, repeat.
Running solo, especially if you mod the game to remove level caps, changes the equation, but even if you use good strategy, metagame furiously, and use your knowledge of the location of easter eggs like the ring of wizardry and ankheg armor, any 1st level character is highly vulnerable to death from a random arrow, unlucky failed save, or botched attack, especially if they are all alone. The bard's advantage is that they climb out of the critical danger zone far more quickly than the F/M/T. If you don't consider reloading to be a form of failure, then it doesn't matter, but if you play the game as though you can't reload (whether or not you actually do) then you want to get to 3rd or 4th level ASAP.
At 1st level, the most generically resilient and capable character is probably the cleric/fighter (or cleric/ranger) and that class remains potent throughout the entire series. The F/M/T has better early game capabilities than the other classes that become hyperpowered at the end, such as the sorcerer, kensai/thief or kensai/mage, but they still spend a good portion of the game being quite fragile compared to other classes that have good prospects from start to finish.
That is, incidentally, why I find classes like the sorcerer, F/M/T, K/T and K/M boring to play: they need to be nursmaided at low levels and can walk over everything at high levels, leaving only a small window where they are tactically interesting to play.
I agree that a stray arrow puts anyone at risk, but I don't find there is actually much risk if you do the routine of "hide...scout...cast disabling magic out of sight...seek and destroy." It leaves a very small portion of the game where the character is vulnerable because almost everything at the really low levels is susceptible to sleep or web in BG1 and the scouting ability lets you avoid getting surprised.
My current run through BGT is with a group where the only fighter was the F/M/T PC. Everyone else was a thief or mage using bows or slings. The reloads weren't because of the F/M/T.
@Rufus f/m/t are easier to play, bards require more finess, if you want to play a class that has pizazz play the bard, if you want to play lazily than f/m/t would be better your fit
I personally love F/M/Ts, they're so versatile that it's pure enjoyment to go through the game not having to rely on NPCs too much. I'm actually currently going through BG2 as a F/M/T. I'd say that they're is a little over powered, but I still enjoy playing as one.
"Critical hit never misses" Very true, but stoneskin can easily eat that up and is abjuration, therefore immune to the thief's illusion dispelling.
" During the defensive spin, the bard is then rooted to the spot which is nice for the opposition strategically and his offense is nearly non-existant for that round."
Call it cheese if you will (I do, personally) but anything which grants "freedom" will allow the bard to move about in this form. I am unsure if any fixpacks fix this problem, but it is available in vanilla.
"Also, I'm not sure how you are calculating the idea of only hitting with a 20 but by the time you are a level 20 fighter with magic weapons "
Let me stop you right there. According to the original poster it would be: "F/M/T: lvl: 18/17/22"
On top of this, I am including tenser's transformation for the Bard once all other spells have ran out, which actually makes the blade theoretically a better fighter than the F/M/T, including the offensive/defensive spin capability.
"Casting time becomes an issue with that since the F/T/M can use the Robe of Vecna and near instant cast most spells while the Bard doesn't have the same advantage"
Bards get the UAI HLA (talk about abbreviations!) so they can use robe of Vecna.
"After casting, the F/T/M can use the high base attacks and better weapon effects as well - such as dual wielding the flail of ages with the slow effect with belm for 5 attacks per round base when not backstabbing."
Again, providing there is no cap on tenser's transformation, the Bard would match or exceed the F/M/T fighting capabilities. As for equipment, they both get UAI HLA so they are on even footing there. The only advantage the F/T/M gets is backstab, and even then the Bard could surround himself with timestop traps.
"In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M."
"In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M."
IMO it would be the other way around. The Bard has access to less overall spells (5 spells per level upto 6th level) but the F/M/T has 5 until 6th where they get 3/3/2/1. But again, it all depends on an innumerable number of factors. The F/T/M does not have a remarkable advantage in any physical areas apart from Thac0, which is mitigated by the extra AC of the Blade's defensive spin.
E.g. "F/T/M backstabs Bard. Bard dies." Or "F/T/M walks into 6 spike traps. F/T/M dies" Or "F/T/M casts spelltrigger/sequencer: greater malison, lower resistance and disintegrate" Or even "Bard uses scroll of Wish, wishes for double length timestop. Bard wins."
a f/m/t can actually be skilled with the holy avenger +6, no luck for a bard they can both use it with use any item, but only a f/m/t in this scenario would have attacks per round, i remember one time i had an evil fighter/thief using the holy avenger+6, ah spite at its best, it was pretty badass
grand master with bg2 rule set is +2 to hit, +3 to damage, +0.5 attacks per round, and -1 speed factor, but fighters at level 13 have 2 base attacks per round and haster with specialization in two handed swords gives you 3, or you can use improved haste for 5, or have 10 with greater whirlwinds, or have sarevok dual class into a thief and give him use any item so he can use the holy avenger+6 , iRoNy
Everyone who brings up arcane spells in favor of the Bard has to realize that a FMT can do the same (minus 2 level 6 slots) and has level 7/8 spells with 3/2 castings per day on top of that.
Moreover, every aspiring pick pocketeer should have noticed that a FMT gets a total of 565 thieving points at the vanilla ToB level cap, while a bard's pick pocket ability caps at 100 - DEX bonus excluded.
And bringing up Tenser's Transformation in a fight against a spell casting opponent is a sure recipe for disaster, as Tenser's disables your spell casting, leaving you at the mercy of your opponent.
A dual-wielding level 13 Fighter with only 2 stars in every weapon he uses will get to the nonmagicial cap of 5 apr with Belm or any other +1 apr weapon. GWW sets your apr to 10, meaning it benefits Fighters with < 5 apr the most. But as soon as you reach that cap Improved Haste accomplishes the same thing for a longer time period.
well offensive spin doesnt stack with haste, so i can only see 9 attacks per round with a blade, and f/m/t can also use tenser's transformation and improved haste, and offensive spin gives only +2 to hit/damage ( although all attacks deal maximum damage) so only +1 more to hit than a f/m/t with weapon specialization, so basically it looks like blades/ f/m/t are pretty much the same except the f/m/t gets more higher level spells, and more thief skillz, although the enhanced bard song is pretty spectacular, with its INFINITE range, did i mention it had INFINITE range, good stuff
Everyone who brings up arcane spells in favor of the Bard has to realize that a FMT can do the same (minus 2 level 6 slots) and has level 7/8 spells with 3/2 castings per day on top of that.
Arcane spell POWER is in favor of the bard. More caster levels = bigger numbers when both parties try and utilize the same spell.
At some point, it stops being an issue but certain spells do not cap in damage from level.
@10thLich If you look back over the posts I am stating that Tenser's Transformation is used after all spells have ran out. Giving the Bard a clear advantage in this area. Both sides would obviously exhaust their spell protections and offensive spells first before engaging in melee, or you are at a huge disadvantage.
@sarevok57 Improved haste does stack with offensive spin, IIRC.
And basically yeah mate, you hit the nail on the head. They are both practically the same thing. F/M/T gets more spells but Bard gets higher caster level. F/M/T gets more "base" fighting abilities and some nice HLA's but Blade also gets offensive/defensive spin and more benefit from Tenser's Trans.
The Imp. Bard song is a good point, I forgot all about that! Vhailor's Helm (or a simulacrum scroll) could provide the Blade with extra punch here. But on it's own? Pretty useless as it is purely defensive. (I almost wish Bard songs would be active for X rounds/level after being clicked/played)
Comments
The never ending theoreticals becomes:
F/T/M: I have max attacks per round and max damage
Bard: I have spell defenses and defensive spin
F/T/M: I disable your magic defenses and no longer have whirlwind etc active
Bard: I can cast X (the above example being a powerful fire arrow)
F/T/M: I can put my defenses up with a contingency
Bard: I disable your defenses
F/T/M: I reactivate my HLA's
Bard: I reactivate defensive spin
Etc.
Critical hit never misses. I'm not sure if I am communicating that correctly. The thief's see illusion ability pumped up with 20+ levels of thief also means near instant destruction of all illusions without using an action for the round - better than true seeing since it also is immune to the 5th level spell immunity spell (unlike the F/T/M who can be immune to true sight with the spell). During the defensive spin, the bard is then rooted to the spot which is nice for the opposition strategically and his offense is nearly non-existant for that round.
Stoneskin and protection from magic weapons are the only real defense against physical attacks and both are susceptible to a breach.
Also, I'm not sure how you are calculating the idea of only hitting with a 20 but by the time you are a level 20 fighter with magic weapons (1 base thaco), specialization (+1), equipment bonuses (+5 with TOB weapons; +1 with weapon gauntlets), strength bonuses (+4), etc. I think your number is off unless the bard is hitting -30 or lower ACs (without the advantage of blur or similar illusions which can be dispelled by the detect illusion ability very quickly at high levels).
The only theoretical to me becomes a question of the magic. Both have enough magic to destroy the other so that to me is more theotical (although spells like the globe of invulnerability are actually very useful against a bard such as giving immunity to flame arrow and skull trap). Casting time becomes an issue with that since the F/T/M can use the Robe of Vecna and near instant cast most spells while the Bard doesn't have the same advantage. After casting, the F/T/M can use the high base attacks and better weapon effects as well - such as dual wielding the flail of ages with the slow effect with belm for 5 attacks per round base when not backstabbing.
The biggest strategic question for the bard in terms of magic is how he is going to use his 6th level spells. Protection from magic weapons, contingency, and true seeing are all 6th level spells. Against an opponent that can backstab when unseen (or anytime with the assassination ability), true seeing seems essential. Contingency can only reraise one defense while burning both a 6th level spell and either another 6th level for PMW or another 4th level spell for stoneskin which means those will be burned through faster than the 5th level breaches - especially if several of those spots are taken for true seeing and PMW.
In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M.
At 1st level, the most generically resilient and capable character is probably the cleric/fighter (or cleric/ranger) and that class remains potent throughout the entire series. The F/M/T has better early game capabilities than the other classes that become hyperpowered at the end, such as the sorcerer, kensai/thief or kensai/mage, but they still spend a good portion of the game being quite fragile compared to other classes that have good prospects from start to finish.
That is, incidentally, why I find classes like the sorcerer, F/M/T, K/T and K/M boring to play: they need to be nursmaided at low levels and can walk over everything at high levels, leaving only a small window where they are tactically interesting to play.
This is true; however it can be avoided by Free Action.
Seriously, this is one of the more pointless theorycrafting debates. It'll come down to who gets the drop on the other guy. Seriously. If either guy manages to escape the opening barrage, it'd be pretty easy to simply run away from the other.
It's a never-ending "well if he does this, I do this, but then he'll do this, so I'll do this." They are practically the same exact thing. They are both hyper versatile at that level, which is the appeal of either build.
I assume the bard abilities are not exactly the same in the different games, but in Icewind Dale my bard rocked!
Especially the 'hold monster' song and the one that improves armour class and heals. Fantastic
I did however gain alot of insight from this debate, so for me at least, it wasn't pointless at all. As pointed out the FMT has more "stable" power, with better avg. thac0, wider spell range, backstab... However some of you made the point that the Bard is more "bursty", having lvl40 for base calculation for spells granting him some temporary advantages and higher magical output with single spells.
Since I allready played a Bard once, I think I'll go with FMT next
My current run through BGT is with a group where the only fighter was the F/M/T PC. Everyone else was a thief or mage using bows or slings. The reloads weren't because of the F/M/T.
(1) Caster level is supposed to cap at 20 in ToB.
(2) The bard even at 40 has some pretty bad saving throws.
In the end though, the bard still has the advantage, because he can pickpocket the FMT's still-beating heart.
The bard's music can also make the FMT's head explode if he finds the right resonating frequency while playing his (or her) sweet-azz harp.
Please allow me to demonstrate through the following.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html
"Critical hit never misses"
Very true, but stoneskin can easily eat that up and is abjuration, therefore immune to the thief's illusion dispelling.
" During the defensive spin, the bard is then rooted to the spot which is nice for the opposition strategically and his offense is nearly non-existant for that round."
Call it cheese if you will (I do, personally) but anything which grants "freedom" will allow the bard to move about in this form. I am unsure if any fixpacks fix this problem, but it is available in vanilla.
"Also, I'm not sure how you are calculating the idea of only hitting with a 20 but by the time you are a level 20 fighter with magic weapons "
Let me stop you right there. According to the original poster it would be:
"F/M/T:
lvl: 18/17/22"
On top of this, I am including tenser's transformation for the Bard once all other spells have ran out, which actually makes the blade theoretically a better fighter than the F/M/T, including the offensive/defensive spin capability.
"Casting time becomes an issue with that since the F/T/M can use the Robe of Vecna and near instant cast most spells while the Bard doesn't have the same advantage"
Bards get the UAI HLA (talk about abbreviations!) so they can use robe of Vecna.
"After casting, the F/T/M can use the high base attacks and better weapon effects as well - such as dual wielding the flail of ages with the slow effect with belm for 5 attacks per round base when not backstabbing."
Again, providing there is no cap on tenser's transformation, the Bard would match or exceed the F/M/T fighting capabilities. As for equipment, they both get UAI HLA so they are on even footing there. The only advantage the F/T/M gets is backstab, and even then the Bard could surround himself with timestop traps.
"In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M."
"In short, I see the casting as being close enough to call it a draw but the rest of the package as being all F/T/M."
IMO it would be the other way around. The Bard has access to less overall spells (5 spells per level upto 6th level) but the F/M/T has 5 until 6th where they get 3/3/2/1. But again, it all depends on an innumerable number of factors. The F/T/M does not have a remarkable advantage in any physical areas apart from Thac0, which is mitigated by the extra AC of the Blade's defensive spin.
E.g. "F/T/M backstabs Bard. Bard dies."
Or "F/T/M walks into 6 spike traps. F/T/M dies"
Or "F/T/M casts spelltrigger/sequencer: greater malison, lower resistance and disintegrate"
Or even "Bard uses scroll of Wish, wishes for double length timestop. Bard wins."
You get the point.
Plus, under the BG2 ruleset you'd only get +2 Thac0, +4 damage, +0.5 attacks per round at Grandmaster level
Source:
http://uk.gamespot.com/baldurs-gate/forum/weapon-specialization-47927798/
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts#Proficiency_Benefits
Moreover, every aspiring pick pocketeer should have noticed that a FMT gets a total of 565 thieving points at the vanilla ToB level cap, while a bard's pick pocket ability caps at 100 - DEX bonus excluded.
And bringing up Tenser's Transformation in a fight against a spell casting opponent is a sure recipe for disaster, as Tenser's disables your spell casting, leaving you at the mercy of your opponent.
A dual-wielding level 13 Fighter with only 2 stars in every weapon he uses will get to the nonmagicial cap of 5 apr with Belm or any other +1 apr weapon. GWW sets your apr to 10, meaning it benefits Fighters with < 5 apr the most. But as soon as you reach that cap Improved Haste accomplishes the same thing for a longer time period.
10th
At some point, it stops being an issue but certain spells do not cap in damage from level.
@sarevok57 Improved haste does stack with offensive spin, IIRC.
And basically yeah mate, you hit the nail on the head. They are both practically the same thing. F/M/T gets more spells but Bard gets higher caster level. F/M/T gets more "base" fighting abilities and some nice HLA's but Blade also gets offensive/defensive spin and more benefit from Tenser's Trans.
The Imp. Bard song is a good point, I forgot all about that! Vhailor's Helm (or a simulacrum scroll) could provide the Blade with extra punch here. But on it's own? Pretty useless as it is purely defensive. (I almost wish Bard songs would be active for X rounds/level after being clicked/played)