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Is fatigue actually detrimental?

LiggLigg Member Posts: 187
I know in IWD fatigue lowered your attack roll by 1. You could only score 1 -19 and never get a critical hit. It doesn't seem to do anything in BG 1 or 2. You can fight with fatigue and not appear to have any deficits. And (despite Dynaheir saying 'magic does not rest well in a tired mind') there is no spellcasting failure.
Given the current engine is it possible to mod fatigue so it actually is a noticeable problem?

Brude

Comments

  • ginger_hammerginger_hammer Member Posts: 160
    Its supposed to be -1 to luck and -1 to all your rolls which progresses the longer you are awake in 4 hour chunks. Doesn't sound too bad and wouldn't effect spell casting based on the above. Not sure if it is tweakable.

  • CrazedSlayerCrazedSlayer Member Posts: 130
    I can never manage to hit anything with a fatigued party.

    QuartzFenghoang
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    Hopefully if this is factored in it will be displayed on the character sheet. It has been mentioned that all of the to hit/damage/AC calculations will be viewable.

    Brude
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,771
    edited October 2012
    It does give a THAC0 penalty I don't remember how severe it is.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    @Demivrgvs Can you talk a little more about CON bonuses and fatigue? I always roll my PC with the max CON appropriate for their class, but I've noticed, after rolling up a dozen characters over the last month, that certain classes can become fatigued (bards, sorcerers) almost immediately after leaving Candlekeep while others (fighters and their derivatives) never do.

    This isn't consistent, either. Sometimes a clothie toon will make it to the FAI without becoming fatigued at all, other times they'll become tired on the coast highway just after talking to Elminster. I've always wondered what triggers it that early in the game.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    @Demivrgvs Very cool, thanks for the clarification.

    It could very well be RNG leading me towards a confirmation bias of sorts -- every time I noticed a toon getting fatigued early in the game, it always seemed to be a caster class or a thief, never a fighter, paladin, or ranger. So it struck me as odd that different characters traveled the same distance at the same point in the game, and some became fatigued while others didn't.

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,580
    I hasted myself twice in a row once in IWD (After already fatigued) and I needed like 20s to hit anything.

    Quartz
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    We had a no reload speed game competition for a while back in the day (2002) with the winner being the one who finished the final battle in the fewest number of game days (with no reloads) and fatigue began to be an issue when you tried to avoid resting to keep your day count down... :-)

    I did get a character to the final battle in 35 game days but he died.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    You can't score Critical hits in BG1 with Fatigue, you get -1 to to hit rolls so if you roll a 20, it'll be 20-1 = 19 and it'll score as a completely normal hit (or miss that is) which is BAD BAD.
    In Icewind Dale it lowered itself every so and then to become even a -8 or -4 to hit, damage, saving throws and what not but as far as I've seen, not in BG, it just stays on -1.

    Don't know about BG2 though, as the only character I've ever seen fatigued is Aerie (does it have something to do with Constitution? I dunno)

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315

    ...in BG, it just stays on -1.

    Don't know about BG2 though, as the only character I've ever seen fatigued is Aerie (does it have something to do with Constitution? I dunno)

    @Cheesebelly fatigue is actually coded to reach -94 both in BG1 and BG2, but it's very unlikely you'll ever experience more than fatigue -2 or -3 unless you purposedly try to reach them by never resting.

    I had the same in-game experience you and @Brude are talking about (Aerie and Viconia getting fatigued before everyone else), but with the non-modded game niether Aerie CON 9 nor Viconia CON 8 play any role in this, because fatigue penalty kicks in at CON 7. What probably happens is that pretty much every other NPC (not to mention charname) has much higher CON, with non-warriors almost always having CON 16 and warriors having CON 16+. That means those characters takes 4 or 8 additional hours to become fatigued, thus once you see Aerie or Viconia fatigued you would have to march for other 4-8 hours to see other characters getting fatigued.

    BrudeCheesebelly
  • LiggLigg Member Posts: 187

    You can't score Critical hits in BG1 with Fatigue, you get -1 to to hit rolls so if you roll a 20, it'll be 20-1 = 19 and it'll score as a completely normal hit (or miss that is) which is BAD BAD.
    In Icewind Dale it lowered itself every so and then to become even a -8 or -4 to hit, damage, saving throws and what not but as far as I've seen, not in BG, it just stays on -1.

    Don't know about BG2 though, as the only character I've ever seen fatigued is Aerie (does it have something to do with Constitution? I dunno)

    It's been some time since I've played vanilla BG1. I've played it in BGT using the BG2 engine (which BGEE will use). I'm sure you can score a critical hit when fatigued. It may affect THAC0 rather than the 1-20 dice roll. But the effects appear to be minimal. It was actually noticeable in IWD. And no effect on spellcasting.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I don't know how it works on BG2, I am pretty darn sure you won't score criticals in BG1 though, as I keep the attack rolls always on :P

    @Demivrgvs : Holy mother of god... I need to try that! XD

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418

    You can't score Critical hits in BG1 with Fatigue, you get -1 to to hit rolls so if you roll a 20, it'll be 20-1 = 19 and it'll score as a completely normal hit (or miss that is) which is BAD BAD.
    In Icewind Dale it lowered itself every so and then to become even a -8 or -4 to hit, damage, saving throws and what not but as far as I've seen, not in BG, it just stays on -1.

    Don't know about BG2 though, as the only character I've ever seen fatigued is Aerie (does it have something to do with Constitution? I dunno)

    As I recall with BG1 (vanilla) the only thing consistent with how fatigue worked was inconsistentcy LOL

    -IIRC it was supposed to get worse with each consecutive 8 hours after the first 24 (according to manual?)and sometimes it seemed to increase and sometimes it didn't... ;-)

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    My half-orc with 20 CON never seemed to get fatigued - if he did it was usually several days after everyone else.

  • RomulanPaladinRomulanPaladin Member Posts: 188
    Are you guys sure that the fatigue penalties and bonuses for super low / high CONs are the whole story? It always seemed to me that CON also affects the fatigue timer.

  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    I've always noticed Xan and Viconia becoming fatigued before everyone else. In the case of Viconia I normally rush to the closest inn or find a place to set up camp and rest because I am a little bitch and totally under the thumb.

    jolly_bb
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    @Demivrgvs
    So when you say damage rolls do you mean weapon damage only? Meaning that a level 5 mage with +1 luck would still only do 5-30 damage with a fireball rather than 10-30?
    For weapons, do you gain a +1 to damage for each die roll? So if someone with +1 luck is using a bastard sword (2D4) would they do 3-8 damage or 4-8 damage?
    Lastly, does a luck modifier actually modify your hit roll? Meaning a positive luck modifier would elminate the possibility of a critical miss, and increase the chances of a critical hit?

  • TekrithTekrith Member Posts: 3
    Do the NPCs constantly moaning about wanting being tired count as detrimental?

    Ulfgar_TorunnBrude
  • RomulanPaladinRomulanPaladin Member Posts: 188
    Tekrith said:

    Do the NPCs constantly moaning about wanting being tired count as detrimental?

    At least they're not Navi...

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,496
    I distinctly remember, once upon a time, saying "meh" to fatigue while playing vanilla BG1, and having several characters all of a sudden die after a couple of real time hours playing so carelessly. I never made that mistake again, and I started not thinking haste was such a great spell after all.

    Actually, maybe that was Might and Magic 6.

    *chuckles, takes a draw on pipe, strokes beard, and is amuzed at own wizardly absent-minded-professorship*

    Brude
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    TJ_Hooker said:

    @DemivrgvsSo when you say damage rolls do you mean weapon damage only? Meaning that a level 5 mage with +1 luck would still only do 5-30 damage with a fireball rather than 10-30?

    @TJ_Hooker Yes, luck can reduce (if positive) or increase (if negative) the minimum damage you take from spells (*) but afaik it doesn't increase the damage of your spells.

    (*) I say "spells" but I should actually say "extension headers". For example if the opponent's weapon delivers xDy dmg via headers on hit (e.g. +1d6 fire dmg from a flaming sword), then such 1d6 is affected by luck, possibly becoming 1-5 (if the target struck has +1 luck bonus) or 2-6 (with -1 luck penalty).
    TJ_Hooker said:

    For weapons, do you gain a +1 to damage for each die roll? So if someone with +1 luck is using a bastard sword (2D4) would they do 3-8 damage or 4-8 damage?

    4-8
    TJ_Hooker said:

    Lastly, does a luck modifier actually modify your hit roll? Meaning a positive luck modifier would elminate the possibility of a critical miss, and increase the chances of a critical hit?

    Interesting...I never tested this and for some strange reason we never looked into it. If I have to guess I'd say it's just a +1 or -1 to hit rolls and criticals aren't affected (there's a separate opcode for them), but now I want to discover it for real. I just need to equip a sword with +20 luck and see what happens. As soon as I find the time to test it I'll let you know the results. ;)

    BrudeJamesTJ_HookerCrevsDaak
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    @Demivrgvs
    Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer.

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