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Stealing and NPC reaction in BG2

"In Gaelan's house, where you start out, there's a fence upstairs. Neither of them comments on it when you unlock their chests and steal their stuff, right in front of their faces. (You can do this in just about every house in the city, actually. Less realistic, but just as well--it was a huge pain in the last game trying to figure what was fair game to pick up and what would bring the guards storming in.)"

"People in Throne of Bhaal tend to notice and attack you if you open containers in their houses, the way they did in BGI. I don't know why they turned this annoying feature off in Shadows of Amn and then back on now. Save before you snoop--or come back at night, as people in houses often go to sleep in the dark hours."


I have read about it in this articles:
1) http://www.bigorrin.org/amn2a.htm
2)http://www.angelfire.com/hero/tjekanefir/throne.htm


Is it really true? They cut off this npc-reaction features in Shadows of Amn?

Comments

  • Boomer_007Boomer_007 Member Posts: 5
    sarevok57, thanks so much for your answer. It's very informative.
    but unfortunately there are only a select few places where this can happen;

    So basically in SoA we have many places where NPC's wouldn't react even if they see you? It's so strange. I don't understand why the developers did this. Is it the same in BG1?

    In this thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/19849/being-caught-stealing-when-far-away-from-looted-chests Tresset said this:
    Well, actually the commoners call the guards when they see the looted chest and not when they see you after looting a chest. What is really happening is the commoners are wandering around off screen and when they wander within visual range of the chest they see that it has been looted and call the guards. What you can do to get away with stealing is quickly change areas before the guards come or before they call the guards. If you change areas they can't call the guards and the guards won't appear if they were called, even if you go back into the area where you were stealing. So if you saved after stealing and the guards come when you load, then quickly move your entire party to a different area; either by changing floors or leaving the house or whatever you are in.

    Is this also true in SoA?

    And also: Do some stores close at night and some NPC's (those in buildings) go to sleep in SoA?

  • AerieAerie Member Posts: 206
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    hehehe nope

    you can get caught stealing in houses, and very ironically it is VERY rewarding because you don't lose REP for killing the guards and cowled wizards that get summoned in, although you will lose REP if you kill the commoner or person that spotted you when they go hostile, so watch out

    but unfortunately there are only a select few places where this can happen;

    wauken's promenade;

    the building over ribald's has a store with 2 shop keepers in there ( one is a dwarf ) forget their names

    you have 2 chances of summoning in the guards, one for each shop keep

    bridge district;

    the house that is immediately to your south east, its a noble's house of some sort ( also forget his name )
    if you steal from the urn area ( above the pool in the pool room ? ) this will also summon a bunch of guards

    there is also a house right beside a door that leads to a mercenary(?) group that are hostile, this house has a locked and trapped box that has an ankheg shell in it

    now if you enter that house at the right time, there will be a small boy and a woman in there, if you do it correctly ( before the boy leaves ) when you get caught stealing make sure the boy goes hostile first, if so, then you can steal again to make the woman go hostile ( the boy only stays in that place for a very short amount of time so watch out )

    plus, if you do the "ransom" quest with the holmes in the red outfit and don't release the noble lady and give the ransom note to buddy buddy in the slums, you can come back to that house to fight x2 cowled wizards and x5 amnish soldiers i believe

    docks district;

    there is a house directly to the left of cromwell's place, make sure the woman is in sight and then loot the place and the guards will be summoned

    in cromwell's smithy, if you steal from him, he will go hostile and summon the guards, so make sure that you have nothing else for him to make if you plan on doing this ( luckily you lose no REP for taking out cromwell, he comes with a nifty suit of chainmail +3 and a warhammer +2 )

    *requires paladin

    when doing the 2nd last mission of the paladin stronghold ( guarding the daughter in the house in the docks district ) upon entering that house, if you don't talk with the paladin inside right away ( usually when i enter he talks to the wrong person ) if he is still in the room and you steal from the room, it will summon guards as well

    now the reason why buddy upstairs from gaelan's place doesn't stop you is perhaps because he is a thief himself? i notice that any areas that have thieves or fences ( actually i believe buddy is a fence ) that you usually don't get in trouble for stealing, plus i think its just a little bonus story wise to help you get up to that "20 000" gold piece requirement to continue on


    now with all this being said, there is actually different groups of guards that can come when you steal in town ( i set mine so the biggest group always comes, because you know, just for kicks, plus the XP is great )

    there are as follows if i can remember;

    1 centurion 1 cowled wizard
    1 centurioin 1 amnish soldier
    x4 amnish soldiers x2 cowled wizards

    or the best group;

    x1 centurion, x4 amnish soldiers, x3 cowled wizards

    that last group only has a 5% chance to spawn by default but damn, is it a fun group to fight hahaha

    also note;

    watch out for those centurions, they hit hard and fast, especially if you play the game on insane with double damage they can whittle down a -14 AC character with 150 HP pretty darn quick if you are not careful

    I love killing the Amnish guards and Cowled Wizards. Very rewarding.

    sarevok57
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,290
    Boomer_007 wrote: »
    sarevok57, thanks so much for your answer. It's very informative.
    but unfortunately there are only a select few places where this can happen;

    So basically in SoA we have many places where NPC's wouldn't react even if they see you? It's so strange. I don't understand why the developers did this. Is it the same in BG1?

    In this thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/19849/being-caught-stealing-when-far-away-from-looted-chests Tresset said this:
    Well, actually the commoners call the guards when they see the looted chest and not when they see you after looting a chest. What is really happening is the commoners are wandering around off screen and when they wander within visual range of the chest they see that it has been looted and call the guards. What you can do to get away with stealing is quickly change areas before the guards come or before they call the guards. If you change areas they can't call the guards and the guards won't appear if they were called, even if you go back into the area where you were stealing. So if you saved after stealing and the guards come when you load, then quickly move your entire party to a different area; either by changing floors or leaving the house or whatever you are in.

    Is this also true in SoA?

    And also: Do some stores close at night and some NPC's (those in buildings) go to sleep in SoA?

    in BG2 there isn't as many containers to steal from as there is as apposed to BG1, plus in "commoner areas" the locked chests actually have a script on them:

    IF
    Opened([ANYONE])
    !StateCheck(LastTrigger,STATE_INVISIBLE)
    !StateCheck(LastTrigger,STATE_IMPROVEDINVISIBILITY)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #100
    CreateCreature("ENFORAM",[-1.-1],S) // No such index
    END

    the "enforam" being one of several different groups types that can be summoned

    and also, its locked chests that will have this script on it usually, so if you go into a building and steal from a bookshelf or unlocked chest, usually it doesn't spring the guards

    in bg1, there were WAY more locked chests in houses and most of those had its own script to summon "x" type of guards so that is one reason why there is a big difference between the 2 games

    also for areas in bg2 where NPCs dont react to you stealing their stuff ( aka thieve's hideout and upstairs up gaelan's house ) could be because they are thieve's themselves? and its ironic justice that they stole all that stuff just for it to get stolen?

    plus i think its more on the fact that its part of a dungeon/quest sort of thing, and that is just the treasure for that said quest to pick up

    now when it comes to that big paragraph, what that basically means, is that you can get away with stealing if you are "fast enough" ( which we should all know from bg1 )

    so for example; if you unlock a container and get caught doing so, if you leave the area immediately, and do it fast enough, the script will not have enough time to summon the guard(s) - it usually takes a round after the stealing warning appears - and since this script was set to only fire once, if you come back into that area where you looted from, you can go back to the chest and open it up again without triggering the script

    you can do the same thing in bg2, but unless you lose REP for stealing ( which can happen in the temple of lathander ) i would just take out the summoned guards instead

    now when it comes to store closing at night, there are actually some stores that will be open at certain times, although usually i find its the outside ones ( aka, the storekeep close to Jan's house only comes out at night, the storekeep in the bridge district that sells you the gem bag will not be there at night, the awesome store keep in trademeet ( after you finish the quest ) will also not be there at night )

    but when it comes to inside buildings, i think all storekeeps inside never leave, although i do believe that some buildings that have commoners will change at different times ( aka the building that has the trapped/locked ankheg shell, the child commoner will not be in there at certain times, usually night )

    Boomer_007StummvonBordwehr
  • Boomer_007Boomer_007 Member Posts: 5
    Wow. Thanks again. I think this is information what I was look for.
    I forgot about everything. Played BG last time 10 years ago. But what I remember - in ToB in Amkethran you can spot woman and child in one of houses - they sleep at night on the floor or bed and wake up in the afternoon.

    Have you seen anything like this in BG1 and especially in SoA?

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,290
    in bg1 some houses will actually have people sleeping at night in their homes, but this isn't always the case ( i found this to be more often in BG the city itself )

    in BG2, i find it to be more rare, usually every building in athkatla has a purpose in one way or another, and there are a lot less "random" houses like there were in BG 1, out of all the buildings in athkatla that you can break into, there is probably less than half a dozen that are just random houses, every other building in athkatla has a purpose one way or another ( aka quest involved )

    Boomer_007DJKajuru
  • Boomer_007Boomer_007 Member Posts: 5
    edited January 29
    It's interesting. It's like some strange opposition between rudimentary "simulation" of NPC's behavior and idea of NPC's as questgiver-tools. But in the same time games like Ultima 7 have both - questgivers and plot-related NPC`s can live with really complex routines and even have proper reaction to stealing. They don't need to be generic for all of these staff.

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