Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Rasaad's Journey quest... issues? Poor design!

JLEJLE Member Posts: 51
So it seems like the "right" way to finish Rasaad's Journey quest is to lose him permanently from your party, and have him take over and reform the new Twofold cult?

But what if I want to keep him in my party through BG2: Shadows of Amn as well as have him in ToB? What if I were playing a female character and wanted to romance him? Can you only romance him if you take the "keep him in the party" options and end up with him being outcast from both the old and new monkish orders?

Also... The Master of Combat dies FAR too easily in the conflict with the Shar cultists. This is poor design. At the very least, he should have a MINHP=1 "Imoen's Belt" type of item, but flee inside the temple when he hits 1HP (thus removing him from the combat when *he* is defeated, but allowing for the player to find him and talk to him afterwards if *you* win, by walking into the temple.)

Furthermore: The final conversation with him should NOT start automatically after the battle, but should be of the player's own volition - allowing time to save-and-reload in between the combat and the conversation, if you pick the wrong options by accident, and don't want to lose Rasaad from the party! Because otherwise your only option is to go all the way back to the auto-save that's before the big brawl... which means not only having to go through the fight again, but the interminable cutscene before it.

(And, as such, the final conversation should be able to happen either inside or outside the temple, depending on whether the Master of Combat was present through the entire battle, or forced to flee by hitting MINHP=1. Alternatively, the Master of Combat should head back inside the temple after the battle is over anyway, without talking, if he survived the battle. Rasaad, if alive, should then prompt the player to go and talk to the Master of Combat, and let the player choose to do so by going back into the Temple.)

And the cutscene before the battle is spectacularly bad, BECAUSE it is so long: it means that all the time you spend buffing is pointless because the talking goes on for long enough for half your buffs to expire!

Finally... When I wanted to keep Rasaad in the party, "Rasaad's Journey" quest disappeared ENTIRELY from my quest journal. As in, completely. It wasn't in the Chapter 2 part (where I started it), nor Chapter 3 (when I finished it), there was just a complete non-ending disappearance as if the quest had never existed as a quest or taken place, all that was left were some hanging journal entries that weren't attached to a quest of the name "Rasaad's Journey", completed or incomplete.

Why isn't there a third option, as there is with Keldorn ("leave Keldorn with his family for a day or two, then come back and collect him"), to go back, collect him and bring him back into your party after he's spent a few days putting the revised Order back together?

Because losing a party member at the end of a quest is a huge penalty for completing it: it means you've got to go find somebody else, who by now will be underpowered compared to the rest of the party, and probably have no gear. This is the worst design decision of all: one should never be penalised for doing the "proper" completion to a quest.

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,801
    I think your letting a cutscene and single conversation bother you too much. Its one encounter, AND the finale to a quest line. The fight is supposed to be difficult. The Master of Combat doesn't even need to survive to complete it.

    For that matter, why do you think Rasaad staying to lead the TwoFold Trust is the "proper" end of the quest?
    Spoilers:
    The Twofold trust is fake anyway. Followers of Shar created it specifically to lead followers of Sune away and be easier to kill. I wouldn't call Rasaad following a goddess that doesn't exist a "proper end."

    ilduderinoBalrog99JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • JLEJLE Member Posts: 51
    The fact that you have to work harder to make it possible, than to not make it possible.

    The fact that it gives a conversation, and XP, that you don't get otherwise.

    The fact that it *is* presented as a reward which turns out to be a mighty old penalty for the party (especially a party that's short of, among other things, hands to even carry all the loot back to town). Presentation is important. If something is presented as a reward, it should not penalise.

    He's staying on to lead and reform it - it's not specified at the moment what form that reform will take, although acknowledging *both* goddesses (rather than pretending they are one) and trying to turn the Sharrans away from evil might well be a factor in it. In other words, to make something real out of the fake, as something that's presented as being better than the downer-ending of being outcast by everybody. Quest completions are supposed to be *good*, they are supposed to be upbeat, they are supposed to lead to improved situation.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 517
    I really hate the whole quest, working with Sharrans makes no sense as the “good” outcome

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,089
    JLE wrote: »
    The fact that you have to work harder to make it possible, than to not make it possible.

    The fact that it gives a conversation, and XP, that you don't get otherwise.

    The fact that it *is* presented as a reward which turns out to be a mighty old penalty for the party (especially a party that's short of, among other things, hands to even carry all the loot back to town). Presentation is important. If something is presented as a reward, it should not penalise.

    He's staying on to lead and reform it - it's not specified at the moment what form that reform will take, although acknowledging *both* goddesses (rather than pretending they are one) and trying to turn the Sharrans away from evil might well be a factor in it. In other words, to make something real out of the fake, as something that's presented as being better than the downer-ending of being outcast by everybody. Quest completions are supposed to be *good*, they are supposed to be upbeat, they are supposed to lead to improved situation.

    A good RP should allow for 'bad' outcomes as well as good. In this case, apparently you get an XP reward but lose Rasaad. Doesn't sound all 'bad' to me. As far as losing a romance? It happens all the time in rl...

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,801
    @JLE "The fact that you have to work harder to make it possible, than to not make it possible.

    The fact that it gives a conversation, and XP, that you don't get otherwise."

    You do realize that there are a bunch of quests in video games where the worst outcome is one of the hardest to achieve, right? You assuming much by thinking the outcome where you lose your companion is somehow the "best" outcome. Your reaction to it certainly doesn't seem the reaction of a best outcome to me.

    "it's not specified at the moment what form that reform will take, although acknowledging *both* goddesses (rather than pretending they are one) and trying to turn the Sharrans away from evil might well be a factor in it. In other words, to make something real out of the fake, as something that's presented as being better than the downer-ending of being outcast by everybody."

    None of this is stated in game. You're making up your own reasoning here. Its not a bad thing, but it does not inform the actual design of the quest or writing.

    "Quest completions are supposed to be *good*, they are supposed to be upbeat, they are supposed to lead to improved situation."

    No, they aren't. The only thing they "should" do is resolve the arc presented by the quest's start. You're putting your own bias up as some kind of objective measure. Rasaad's quest is about loss of faith; in yourself, your peers, and their loss of faith in you. I think the quest does a great job of illustrating that from several different angles.

    Balrog99JuliusBorisovZaxares
Sign In or Register to comment.