Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Warlocks

SystemSystem Administrator Posts: 163
This discussion was created from comments split from: [v1.5] Warlock Mod.

Comments

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,168
    edited May 7
    People even say taht 5e warlock is worthless compared to 3.5e.

    vkcf2lmcuef11.png

    I couldn't agree more here. Like with most everything, 5e changed things for the worse. Warlock didn't need fixing. It worked perfectly as it was. It was the beginners class, a way to be viable at all levels without really needing to know much about the game.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,037
    edited May 7
    People even say taht 5e warlock is worthless compared to 3.5e.

    vkcf2lmcuef11.png

    I couldn't agree more here. Like with most everything, 5e changed things for the worse. Warlock didn't need fixing. It worked perfectly as it was. It was the beginners class, a way to be viable at all levels without really needing to know much about the game.

    Well, i still prefer 5e WLK over NWN2 warlock ANY day. But prefer the 3.5e wlk...

    In fact, all other casters got nerfed to 5e BUT WLK eldritch blast still amazing. Lv 2 warlocks has a at will force heavy crossbow with unlimited ammo and no reload required called Eldrich Blast. At lv 17, they can deal 4 * (d10 + 5 from Agonizing Blast) or 42 damage on average. on 3.5e, a lv 20 warlock with the same "spell" can do 9d6 or 31.5 damage on average. And enemies has way less hp on 5e.

    Not mentioning that most cool invocations of 3.5e warlocks that allowed you to fly at will are still possible. Ascendant Step allow warlocks to level up without spending any spell slot. Mask of Many Faces allow him to cast disguise himself at will. Shroud of Shadow is invisibility at will. All other classes require long rests to get their spells back but warlocks can get up to tier 5 spells with a short rest. Meaning that a sorcerer needs to rest for 8 hours to re cast his Cone of Cold. A warlock can regain his spell only by short resting for few minutes.

    This mechanic wise. Flavor/lore wise, i loved that your patron matters now. The drawback is that now a lot of people believe that they are clerics of their patrons and not apprentices that learn from their patrons, but if you wanna healing, you should make a pact with a celestial. If you wanna cone of cold and tentacles with a lurker/water elemental(UA). If you wanna fire, with a fiend and so on. 5e maintained the "endless eldritch power but with little versatility" idea of warlock that i loved from 3.5e. What i personally don't like is having a arcane caster that can't compete with other arcane casters in anything. Why someone would try to make a deal with a outsider patron to learn a complete alien type of magic if the magic in question is not powerful?

    WarChiefZeke
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,168
    edited May 7
    My personal favorite Warlock is the 4E Star-Pact Warlock and I liked how that class didn't tie into Elder Evils or the Far Realm or anything really wicked like that. It was almost like a magical astrologist in that version and I wish they would have kept it that way rather than making their pacts evil. Doesn't make any sense, really. The Far Realm is a very distant plane of existence. It has nothing to do with the stars or Realmspace or anything like that. Non-evil warlocks never get any love. Star-Pact Warlocks had the perfect non-evil Patrons to choose from as well, the massive Constellations that are composed of many stars from Spelljammer. Incredibly powerful, non-evil beings.

    My basic problem with the 5E warlock is encapsulated in the meme, basically. It's now neither good nor bad, just average and convoluted, where the opposite can be said of the 3.5e warlock. It was great, because of its simplicity and power.

    Post edited by WarChiefZeke on
    SorcererV1ct0r
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,037
    edited May 7
    WarChiefZeke, a water elemental is a chaotic neutral mentor. A celestial, a good. There are a lot of options to warlocks, except maybe lawful neutral. And a righteous person that puts the law above everything else is extremely unlikely to do something like offer services to a outsider patron in exchange of alien knowledge.

    Water based elemental supernatural powers deserve much more love. On Baldur's Gate 3, you will be able to have a fiend(probably demon if chaotic and devil if lawful) patron or a great old one patron. The two re IMO the most boring. They could include a fey warlock or a Lurker wlk. The unique type of elemental that you can't summon on BG1/2 is water... You can summon Efreets, Djinnis but no Marids...

    On DDO, you have the archfey, the great old one and the fiend but no electric or cold based warlock(my favorites); the unique restricted to good is fiend and GOO is restrcted to non lawfuls.

    About 4e, i hated because felt morel ike a wow clone mmo with cooldowns, stat stickie gear and ludonarrative dissonance... But honestly, having this mmo bs stuff is not bad as making playing a certain class nothing but frustration. Each lv up being a frustration of seeting that the invocations worth nothing compared to spell counterparts. On DDO which has mmo based itemization and cooldowns, i have a epic warlock. Warlocks being the less cooldown based class helps me a lot since i only need to manage few skills and i hate managing cooldowns, but on epic level, the numbers become so nonsensical big, like 45+ CHA, and having tentacles that attacks 5x per 10 seconds, each strike dealing around 400 damage and getting a lot of boring skills on cooldown to manage and despite having power to OHK a army of mobs with the same hp of my char with a single cast, needing long minutes to kill a dragon boss on end of a dungeon made me stop playing ddo. I don't like numbers that represent nothing, nor cooldowns.

    If ddo was more D&D like and less wow like, it would be so amazing... Screenshot on spoilers
    AblZzwL.png

    URtdPOg.png

    WarChiefZeke
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,168
    Water based elemental supernatural powers deserve much more love. On Baldur's Gate 3, you will be able to have a fiend(probably demon if chaotic and devil if lawful) patron or a great old one patron. The two re IMO the most boring. They could include a fey warlock or a Lurker wlk. The unique type of elemental that you can't summon on BG1/2 is water... You can summon Efreets, Djinnis but no Marids…

    Really, there needs to be an entire aquatic campaign. There is so much potential in the lore here. Underwater castles of Storm Giants, the arrogant but easily manipulated marids, the honorable Tako, the vastly intelligent and evil Aboleth. Just so much to choose from.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,091
    I've never played Warlocks much, but to be honest, after reading about them... I think that they should actually have filled the role taken by Sorcerers. They are perfectly suited for the role of "throw out blaster-style damage as often as I want, and know some limited spells/invocations to help boost my abilities according to how I like to play" that befits the kind of ultra-focused role Sorcerers usually fill. Wizards/Mages have the potential to be more powerful nukers and possess much greater versatility, but their power is more limited and has to be rationed carefully (which appeals to the kind of playstyle for people like me, where we have a ton of options, but we require foreknowledge or careful preparation to make the best use of our powers.)

    If it was up to me, that's what I'd do for the next edition of D&D. Dump Sorcerers, and expand the Warlock's capabilities so they aren't as out and out dangerous as a Wizard that just unloads all of their most powerful spells in the first round, but they have steady, reliable damage and utility for their chosen role at all times.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,037
    Zaxares wrote: »
    I've never played Warlocks much, but to be honest, after reading about them... I think that they should actually have filled the role taken by Sorcerers. They are perfectly suited for the role of "throw out blaster-style damage as often as I want, and know some limited spells/invocations to help boost my abilities according to how I like to play" that befits the kind of ultra-focused role Sorcerers usually fill. Wizards/Mages have the potential to be more powerful nukers and possess much greater versatility, but their power is more limited and has to be rationed carefully (which appeals to the kind of playstyle for people like me, where we have a ton of options, but we require foreknowledge or careful preparation to make the best use of our powers.)

    If it was up to me, that's what I'd do for the next edition of D&D. Dump Sorcerers, and expand the Warlock's capabilities so they aren't as out and out dangerous as a Wizard that just unloads all of their most powerful spells in the first round, but they have steady, reliable damage and utility for their chosen role at all times.

    I wouldn't dump sorcerer. They are amazing and unique. But make warlock a wizard subclass which learns magic from a ousider patron rather than scrolls, why not?

    Ps sorry for the time to find that thread

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,037
    Sorry for reviving this thread but warlocks GOT new pacts for DDO. You can be a :
    • Abyssal warlock
    • Celestial warlock
    • Caceri Warlock

    I an re downloading DDO right now.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,051
    edited June 30

    In fact, all other casters got nerfed to 5e BUT WLK eldritch blast still amazing. Lv 2 warlocks has an at will force heavy crossbow with unlimited ammo and no reload required called Eldrich Blast. At lv 17, they can deal 4 * (d10 + 5 from Agonizing Blast) or 42 damage on average. on 3.5e, a lv 20 warlock with the same "spell" can do 9d6 or 31.5 damage on average. And enemies has way less hp on 5e.

    I'm late to the party here but don't forget about the 5E Hex spell. That's another 1d6 damage per hit. At level 5 it also starts lasting for 8 hours so you don't even worry about running out of it since you get your spells back on a short rest (eventually it even gets up to 24 hours in duration).

    Then if you get Maddening Hex you can deal another up to 5 damage on the target per turn (on those turns you have a bonus action free) as well as on any creature within 5 feet of it.

    But even without Maddening Hex you could do up to 2 * (d10+4+1d6) per round by level 5. Or about 12-40 damage (26 damage on average). Assuming both your eldritch blasts hit and you have 18 charisma.

    By level 17 that ends up being 45.5 damage on average. Excluding any necrotic resistance or immunities enemies may have.

    SorcererV1ct0r
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,037
    Thanks a lot. Only two questions.

    1 - Can you use repealing blast and agonizing blast invocation at the same time on 5e?

    2 - Why so many people still believe that warlocks draw their power from their patron instead of learning from their patrons? I mean, since the class initial conception as a "mage kit" on 2e, is clear that warlocks learns from the patron, not draw their power from the cleric.

    2e had rules for divine casters losing access to magic but the worst thing that can happens to warlocks according to the "The Complete Wizard's Handbook" - Page 65 is "The Witch kit cannot be abandoned. If a Witch manages to sever all ties with the entities responsible for her instruction (usually requiring the power of a wish or its equivalent), she loses two experience levels. (...)

Sign In or Register to comment.