Efficiency vs. Entertainment in BG series
SharGuidesMyHand
Member Posts: 2,580
For me, this has always been one of my biggest dilemmas when playing either BG1 or BG2 - trying to find a balance between having an effective, efficient party and having party members I actually like and enjoy.
On one hand, if you put together a party based on entertainment value, you may enjoy the banter and/or corresponding subquests, but on the other hand, you may find the game frustrating to play - especially if you previously had a more efficient party at your disposal.
On the flipside, if you have a party full of members you don't like, the gameplay may feel bland, routine, and repetitive.
As a few random examples:
Every time I see Xan or see people talk about him, I always get an urge to use him in my party, because of his unique personality. But ultimately, I typically end up using Dynaheir or dual-classed Imoen as a mage, and don't have use for another mage in my party (unlike BG2, in which I like to have at least 2 mages in the party).
I always look forward to having Skie and Eldoth in my party, because they bring an interesting subquest/subplot to the game. But once I finally have the opportunity to get them in my party, I find that they just don't fit in the party composition and/or result in a substantial decrease in the overall efficiency of the party.
By contrast, I think Yeslick is one of the best NPCs in BG1, but whenever I have him in the party, I regret that I usually replaced a more likable or colorful NPC with him (i.e: Branwen). Yet, if I don't have Yeslick in my party, there will undoubtedly be times when I think, "Damn, I wish I had Yeslick in that situation."
When playing BGs, I typically have always made my PC lawful good irrespective of char class, simply because it gives your PC the best starting bonuses to rep, reaction, and lowering costs of items. But then I feel strange when I murder innocents like Drizz't or Bjornin to get their items. Ultimately, it makes my PC's stats feel irrelevant, and thus diminishes any sense of individuality or attachment I might feel for the PC.
I think much of the cause for my dilemma in BG1 is that there is such a wide disparity in efficiency among NPCs. BG1 has clearly defined "useful" NPCs (i.e: Yeslick, Coran, Kivan) and mediocre or poor NPCs (Skie, Eldoth). BG2 corrects this problem by giving every NPC unique and clearly defined strengths, so that there are very few, if any, genuinely "weak" NPCs (with the possible exception of Cernd). Thus, a party can always be reformed to accommodate almost any NPC without a substantial decrease in efficiency.
However, the problem I find in BG2 is that I become attached to the earliest NPCs I meet, and I hate to part with them. Typically, my early party will feature Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo, Nalia, and Aerie. I was never too crazy about Minsc (though I like him far better in BG2 than in BG1), so I don't mind replacing him with Anomen, which introduces an interesting supquest and also allows my female PCs to have a romance option. However, I don't want to get rid of someone like Aerie, for example, because I find her to be a sympathetic character and I feel a sense of responsibility for her (and admittedly, I find her mix of mage and cleric abilities to be fairly useful). Likewise, I don't consider Jaheira to be among the best NPCs in the game (I'd prefer to have Keldorn, Valygar, or Mazzy instead), but I can't bear to get rid of her because of the extent to which she intertwines with the story, her associated subquests, and the fact that she sacrifices everything (including her husband) for my PC. Perhaps the most awkward moment comes when I rescue Imoen, and I still have Nalia in my party. I don't have room for both of them (especially if I still have Aerie at that time), yet at that point I feel attached to Nalia and don't want to toss her aside for someone I haven't spoken to for most of the game to that point - yet I would feel incredibly weird telling the person that I just spent the entire game trying to rescue that I don't want her in my party!
Recently, while awaiting the release of BG:EE, I've been playing BG2. In contrast to my usual PC creations, in which I typically start off with my preferred char class and then built the details around that, I actually started off with just a portrait that I liked and then built my class and everything else around that. I made my PC chaotic good, rather than the typical lawful good, because I felt it suited my PC better (she's a barbarian). I find that this decision has given my PC a sense of personality and individuality that I don't think I've ever quite felt about a PC I created before, and to more surprise, I seem to be enjoying the game more.
Thoughts?
On one hand, if you put together a party based on entertainment value, you may enjoy the banter and/or corresponding subquests, but on the other hand, you may find the game frustrating to play - especially if you previously had a more efficient party at your disposal.
On the flipside, if you have a party full of members you don't like, the gameplay may feel bland, routine, and repetitive.
As a few random examples:
Every time I see Xan or see people talk about him, I always get an urge to use him in my party, because of his unique personality. But ultimately, I typically end up using Dynaheir or dual-classed Imoen as a mage, and don't have use for another mage in my party (unlike BG2, in which I like to have at least 2 mages in the party).
I always look forward to having Skie and Eldoth in my party, because they bring an interesting subquest/subplot to the game. But once I finally have the opportunity to get them in my party, I find that they just don't fit in the party composition and/or result in a substantial decrease in the overall efficiency of the party.
By contrast, I think Yeslick is one of the best NPCs in BG1, but whenever I have him in the party, I regret that I usually replaced a more likable or colorful NPC with him (i.e: Branwen). Yet, if I don't have Yeslick in my party, there will undoubtedly be times when I think, "Damn, I wish I had Yeslick in that situation."
When playing BGs, I typically have always made my PC lawful good irrespective of char class, simply because it gives your PC the best starting bonuses to rep, reaction, and lowering costs of items. But then I feel strange when I murder innocents like Drizz't or Bjornin to get their items. Ultimately, it makes my PC's stats feel irrelevant, and thus diminishes any sense of individuality or attachment I might feel for the PC.
I think much of the cause for my dilemma in BG1 is that there is such a wide disparity in efficiency among NPCs. BG1 has clearly defined "useful" NPCs (i.e: Yeslick, Coran, Kivan) and mediocre or poor NPCs (Skie, Eldoth). BG2 corrects this problem by giving every NPC unique and clearly defined strengths, so that there are very few, if any, genuinely "weak" NPCs (with the possible exception of Cernd). Thus, a party can always be reformed to accommodate almost any NPC without a substantial decrease in efficiency.
However, the problem I find in BG2 is that I become attached to the earliest NPCs I meet, and I hate to part with them. Typically, my early party will feature Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo, Nalia, and Aerie. I was never too crazy about Minsc (though I like him far better in BG2 than in BG1), so I don't mind replacing him with Anomen, which introduces an interesting supquest and also allows my female PCs to have a romance option. However, I don't want to get rid of someone like Aerie, for example, because I find her to be a sympathetic character and I feel a sense of responsibility for her (and admittedly, I find her mix of mage and cleric abilities to be fairly useful). Likewise, I don't consider Jaheira to be among the best NPCs in the game (I'd prefer to have Keldorn, Valygar, or Mazzy instead), but I can't bear to get rid of her because of the extent to which she intertwines with the story, her associated subquests, and the fact that she sacrifices everything (including her husband) for my PC. Perhaps the most awkward moment comes when I rescue Imoen, and I still have Nalia in my party. I don't have room for both of them (especially if I still have Aerie at that time), yet at that point I feel attached to Nalia and don't want to toss her aside for someone I haven't spoken to for most of the game to that point - yet I would feel incredibly weird telling the person that I just spent the entire game trying to rescue that I don't want her in my party!
Recently, while awaiting the release of BG:EE, I've been playing BG2. In contrast to my usual PC creations, in which I typically start off with my preferred char class and then built the details around that, I actually started off with just a portrait that I liked and then built my class and everything else around that. I made my PC chaotic good, rather than the typical lawful good, because I felt it suited my PC better (she's a barbarian). I find that this decision has given my PC a sense of personality and individuality that I don't think I've ever quite felt about a PC I created before, and to more surprise, I seem to be enjoying the game more.
Thoughts?
8
Comments
In BG2, the lack of NPC and the need to be effective in battle to prevent your demise prevents from picking the most colorful NPC...
Generally I also don't consider any way of playing right or wrong, it's all about utilizing the game in a way that you enjoy as much as possible. In your case it sounds like you've made a bit of a shift from a powergaming mentality to a roleplaying one. If you find that you enjoy it, then by all means keep going that way.
Recently I've gotten a kick out of running evil groups, which is something I also never did way back when. (Eldoth, btw, can be very good but he needs quite a bit of gear to get there, and whether or not you can spare it depends on your overall group composition).
In the vanilla game you can get away with almost any comp. With Tutu and a tactical mod like SCS installed, I find that much more difficult. The canon party is particularly weak because it lacks robust divine casting, and you don't have early access to spells like Command, Silence, and Dispel Magic.
Recent favorites:
Mixed: Kagain, Coran, Kivan, Viconia, Edwin, Thief (Assassin) PC
Evil: Shar-teel, Montaron, Viconia, Eldoth, Edwin, Barbarian PC
The mixed group will quite easily steamroll anything in the vanilla game, but mostly because the enemy AI is dumb. The evil group works well in a modded Tutu/SCS game, where more caster support is required for a lot of the encounters.
In both groups, the banters back and forth are pretty good.
Edit PS: Yeslick and Xan are both badly placed, which I always found annoying. At least in the original game, getting the required you to (1) ditch an NPC is a seriously remote location (2) run what could be challenging content with only 5 party members. Not exactly a great choice for tyro players.
Choosing lawful good because of two reputation points? Bah, choose chaotic good and have fun.
Why don't you leave an extra npc spot ? That way you can use most npcs for a single quest, and keep 4 others that you are attached to.
And fighting vampires with no clerics to cas protect from negative plane ?
(without using cheese of course)
So unfortunately, there are more requirements in BG2 than BG1
Aside from that, my party is pretty efficient. My PC is a Fighter/Mage and my party of 2-3 other characters are usually 2 clerics and sometimes, optionally, a fighter. They're powerful enough now that they can handle almost any situation. However, I base my playing strategy around entertainment, first and foremost. My three permanent party members are all in my party because I like them as characters. The fact that the two NPCs are clerics is what make them so useful, but if they were not I would still have them in my party because I like them as characters, which is why I originally decided to use them back before I understood what they could do.
It's true that BG2 has less options for companions, but in exchange, you get more fleshed out NPCs.
But even then, no party combination (provided you've got all bases covered) makes it overly difficult (much less impossible) to finish the game. Anyone who dismisses an NPC for having "crappy stats" or "being weak" is coming from a powergaming perspective. Nothing wrong with that, but not the only way to play the game.
For further playthroughs I try to use NPCs that I hadn't used previously, I'll reuse an NPC if it's important for tactical coherence (It was always hard to pass up Coran).
I've wised up a bit since then, needless to say, but probably not enough. I haven't played BG anywhere near as much as many of the people here seem to have done. But I've recently been planning my character for BG:EE. She's going to be an Assassin. And I was planning which stats I wanted her to have. I needed high Dexterity, but her primary character traits are that she's intelligent and charismatic: a ruthless and sociopathic, but very charming, tactician and manipulator. I've decided to go for Dex 18, Int 17 and Cha 16-18. Wis around 9-10 - she isn't very wise, but she isn't stupid either. Strength at 15 or 16, so it has some bonuses but isn't maxed (besides, it'll go up by 4 points over the course of the series).
At one point, I considered making her a Kensai and then dualing to Thief in BG2:EE, at around level 13. I've never done the infamous Kensai/Thief run, and the thought of being some kind of battle deity was appealing. But when I started to plan the stats I felt like I needed that 18 Str and Dex and Con, and it just didn't fit how I saw her: I couldn't possibly do it without lowering the Intelligence and Charisma scores to lower than she should have, or without minimising her Wisdom to the point it became ludicrous and unrealistic. So I scrapped the idea (plus I think the Thief model, with its hood, is so much nicer than the Fighter one, and since I'll be playing on iPad altering it might not be an option). I'm still gonna need to roll in the 90s to actually make her how I envision, but at least it'll be because of how I picture her, rather than because that 18/00 Str was oh-so-necessary for her characterisation.
She'll be running with Dorn, Edwin, Xzar and Monty, and someone else, maybe Viconia for continuity's sake. I am fond of that poor drow, after all.