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(BIG SPOILERS) Does alignment change anything?

So I went to hell to purge Irenicus from my soul and while I took the moral high ground in all my tests, the test of fear I decided to take the cloak on. After all, I'm chaotic good, and while I find the cloak repulsive, there's no one who'd be harmed if I used it... Thing is, this changes alignment to chaotic EVIL and while I want to keep the choice I roleplayed, I'm kind of undecided as to what this'll affect later on. I can deal with paying more in stores and having to drop my robe of the good archmagi, but what other changes will there be? Will Keldorn and Anomen turn on me? Will characters treat me differently? Should I just fudge my roleplaying a little to fit this game's interpretation of "good"? Is alignment just a badge on my character or does it also change the story?

Comments

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,070
    Alignment should matter for all of the reasons you cite, but BioWare decided early on it would only be a badge on your character so you are fine.

    SomeOnesBody
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,839
    first of all your alignment doesn't affect your REP in the medium or long run, even if you are chaotic evil, you can still have 20 REP and it won't do anything to your character

    plus, holy smite ( the level 3 cleric spell ) will now be able to affect you

    also, it's beneficial to be evil in watcher's keep for this reason;
    when you get to the teleport maze area, there will be demons and devils in there having a blood war with each other, depending on who you encounter first, you can actually side with the one group and kill off the other group grab a heart and bring it to the other infernal leader getting XP and a theives hood, if you are good or neutral, there is no way to do this quest

    plus when it comes to role playing choices in the game, i believe the dialogue choices you choose have more to do with evil/good outcomes than alignment does

    plus to be honest, i think accepting the cloak is more of an evil choice than not, remember the skins of lovely nymphs who were no doubt alive had to be flayed to make the cloak and your character even says they can smell the evil coming off of the cloak from where they are standing

    SomeOnesBodyThacoBell
  • SomeOnesBodySomeOnesBody Member Posts: 25
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    plus to be honest, i think accepting the cloak is more of an evil choice than not, remember the skins of lovely nymphs who were no doubt alive had to be flayed to make the cloak and your character even says they can smell the evil coming off of the cloak from where they are standing

    Well, yeah but they were already flayed, me accepting the cloak doesn't change anything. Maybe it's not Lawful good, but chaotic good would definitely take the cloak, as leaving it behind doesn't help the nymphs at all.

    sarevok57
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,314
    edited August 25
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ... if you are good or neutral, there is no way to do this quest

    Wrong. It's more complicated than that, and depends on which bunch you're dealing with. The demons will immediately attack a party led by a lawful good paladin or cleric, but talk otherwise. If the party member they're talking to (probably whoever's in the front position) is good or lawful neutral, it's a fight; otherwise, it's a deal.

    The devils are less restrictive. They'll only attack on sight if the protagonist is a lawful good paladin, and they're willing to make a deal if the character they talk to is anything other than lawful good or neutral good.

    ThacoBell
  • ThunderburpThunderburp Member Posts: 51
    edited August 25
    As an evil character going into ToB, you'll have to make all the good choices if you want the "goodest" ending. If you were neutral or good, one bad choice would be tolerated.

    On the Watcher's Keep, even Lawful Good Paladin protagonists can get the Thieves' Hood if they have a party member with an accepted alignment. All that's needed is to play with the detection range of Tahazzar or Ka'rashur to hide the protagonist and ensure the right party member is closest to them.

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 553
    edited August 25
    I'd say the most tangible effects of alignment are equipment restrictions and Find Familiar.. there's really not much else to go on..

    If you played a modded game, there's all kinds of npc mods that react on alignment but the base game itself doesn't really make much of a fuss about it.

    Edit: Oh and Turn Undead.. Good/Neutral will Fear/Destroy undead, where as Evil can Fear/Control - basically make minions outa them.. but good/neutral turning really is better in most cases.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,267
    edited August 26
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    plus to be honest, i think accepting the cloak is more of an evil choice than not, remember the skins of lovely nymphs who were no doubt alive had to be flayed to make the cloak and your character even says they can smell the evil coming off of the cloak from where they are standing

    Well, yeah but they were already flayed, me accepting the cloak doesn't change anything. Maybe it's not Lawful good, but chaotic good would definitely take the cloak, as leaving it behind doesn't help the nymphs at all.

    Hard disagree.
    *edit*
    To clarify, Nymphs are a sentient race on par with any other. This is like having a known serial killer walk up to you and say, "Hey I just murdered someone the other day, do you want their skin? I made it into a snazzy cloak."
    Accepting is not only evil, but very evil.

    SomeOnesBodyKloroxZaxares
  • SomeOnesBodySomeOnesBody Member Posts: 25
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    plus to be honest, i think accepting the cloak is more of an evil choice than not, remember the skins of lovely nymphs who were no doubt alive had to be flayed to make the cloak and your character even says they can smell the evil coming off of the cloak from where they are standing

    Well, yeah but they were already flayed, me accepting the cloak doesn't change anything. Maybe it's not Lawful good, but chaotic good would definitely take the cloak, as leaving it behind doesn't help the nymphs at all.

    Hard disagree.
    *edit*
    To clarify, Nymphs are a sentient race on par with any other. This is like having a known serial killer walk up to you and say, "Hey I just murdered someone the other day, do you want their skin? I made it into a snazzy cloak."
    Accepting is not only evil, but very evil.

    If I was trapped in a desert island with 2 other people and one died, I'd doubtlessly cannibalize his corpse... No amount of not eating it will bring him back to life. The example you gave would be evil only if I were giving the serial killer reason to go kill someone else in order to sell cloaks, but I'm not rewarding the demons by simply taking it.

    For a real life example, I'd never BUY leather or fur, but I wouldn't turn down a free fur coat in winter.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,267
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

  • SomeOnesBodySomeOnesBody Member Posts: 25
    edited August 26
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

    Well, I'm vegetarian, killing an animal OR a human for food is morally repulsive to me either way. But I don't understand how it's "evil" to do something that harms no one... Isn't chaotic good all about being a good ol' John Mill type utilitarian? Well, there's utility in taking the cloak and absolutely none in leaving it, as doing so won't un-flay the nymphs... Surely the deontological imperative of not using it is on the lawful-chaotic axis, not good or evil.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,267
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

    Well, I'm vegetarian, killing an animal OR a human for food is morally repulsive to me either way. But I don't understand how it's "evil" to do something that harms no one... Isn't chaotic good all about being a good ol' John Mill type utilitarian? Well, there's utility in taking the cloak and absolutely none in leaving it, as doing so won't un-flay the nymphs... Surely the deontological imperative of not using it is on the lawful-chaotic axis, not good or evil.

    Spoken like a True Neutral.

  • SomeOnesBodySomeOnesBody Member Posts: 25
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

    Well, I'm vegetarian, killing an animal OR a human for food is morally repulsive to me either way. But I don't understand how it's "evil" to do something that harms no one... Isn't chaotic good all about being a good ol' John Mill type utilitarian? Well, there's utility in taking the cloak and absolutely none in leaving it, as doing so won't un-flay the nymphs... Surely the deontological imperative of not using it is on the lawful-chaotic axis, not good or evil.

    Spoken like a True Neutral.

    Okay, now I'm actually curious on how you draw the good/evil line.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,255
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

    Well, I'm vegetarian, killing an animal OR a human for food is morally repulsive to me either way. But I don't understand how it's "evil" to do something that harms no one... Isn't chaotic good all about being a good ol' John Mill type utilitarian? Well, there's utility in taking the cloak and absolutely none in leaving it, as doing so won't un-flay the nymphs... Surely the deontological imperative of not using it is on the lawful-chaotic axis, not good or evil.

    Spoken like a True Neutral.

    Okay, now I'm actually curious on how you draw the good/evil line.

    I love @ThacoBell to death, but let's just say the odds of a character like him surviving to the end of ToB would be approximately nil. On the other hand, bards'd be singing songs about his glorious self-sacrifice for generations!

    KatzerchenPermidion_StarkThacoBell
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,166
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    plus to be honest, i think accepting the cloak is more of an evil choice than not, remember the skins of lovely nymphs who were no doubt alive had to be flayed to make the cloak and your character even says they can smell the evil coming off of the cloak from where they are standing

    Well, yeah but they were already flayed, me accepting the cloak doesn't change anything. Maybe it's not Lawful good, but chaotic good would definitely take the cloak, as leaving it behind doesn't help the nymphs at all.

    The Quest Pack mod has neutral outcomes for the hell trials... and the reasoning for the neutral option is worded almost exactly like this.

    SomeOnesBody
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,267
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @SomeOnesBody
    I don't think playing any of the good alignments is for you. Especially since you're comparing the skin of a murdered sapient race to animal fur.

    Well, I'm vegetarian, killing an animal OR a human for food is morally repulsive to me either way. But I don't understand how it's "evil" to do something that harms no one... Isn't chaotic good all about being a good ol' John Mill type utilitarian? Well, there's utility in taking the cloak and absolutely none in leaving it, as doing so won't un-flay the nymphs... Surely the deontological imperative of not using it is on the lawful-chaotic axis, not good or evil.

    Spoken like a True Neutral.

    Okay, now I'm actually curious on how you draw the good/evil line.

    Well before I'm wearing the flayed skin of murdered people.


    @Balrog99 Hey now, this IS high fantasy. :lol:

    Balrog99
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 848
    edited August 28
    This discussion kind of reminds me of the fact that there are supposed to be no "Good" Templars in the Dark Sun setting, since they implicitly own slaves and Good characters are inherently opposed to Slavery. There can be non-Cruel ones, but they're still not Good.

    In the matter of the Nymph Cloak, it's a matter of condoning the cruelty necessary. There's not a lot of room for nuance in the responses so the assumed attitude isn't "I am only accepting this out of pragmatism and I do not like how it was made" but rather "GIMME GIMME GIMME!"

    ThacoBell
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,314
    My attitude is usually more like "What, a cloak that protects against fear? Why would I care about that garbage when I can protect the whole party any time I feel like it? Take your cloak and choke on it."

    Also, the good reward is much better than the evil one.

  • ThunderburpThunderburp Member Posts: 51
    edited September 11
    Someone flayed a sentient being that they more likely than not murdered. The protagonist knows this full well from their experience in the city of Baldur's Gate. Now in Hell, an actual devil (the embodiment of evil) offers this skin as a gift saying that it protects from fear. By any spin of the imagination, I can't see how a person taking the gift and effing wearing it is not moving the needle towards evil, when it comes to us observers trying to locate the person on the good-evil axis.

    Whether it should be enough to redefine that person's inner alignment to evil on its own is a different topic that has to do with the influence of the planes, increased in this case by the weight of this test. The protagonist's already weakened mind is trying to fight off the influence of the plane and Bhaal's blood, with an outcome where it loses itself and an outcome where it resists.



    As for surviving in ToB, I'm not sure accepting gifts from devils shows wisdom that would increase odds of survival. I'm not sure either that recklessly showing devils any kind of weakness (like a propensity to give in to fear that is large enough you'd be desperate to do something as reckless as accepting a magical protection from a devil) is an act committed by someone who would be more likely to survive :*

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