No doubt giving yourself such a handicap can make for an interesting run. Personally I’ve never gone below 7 in strength, but lower on other scores. For most characters I’d say anything below 10 starts making things interesting in one dimension or another.
@lroumen 18/01 is a one bracket increase over 18. 18/51 would be the next bracket. And that is exactly how I play it, each +1 to 18 is a one bracket increase not a whole point. It’s fine with me if the player ends up with a cleric or thief with an exceptional strength.
ah sorry, you are right. I thought it was 26/51/76/00 but it is 51/76/91/00.
Do you play brackets for all classes? Because in BG a straight 18 does not exist for warriors and they default to at least 18/01 at character creation, while non-warriors skip all the brackets and only use the straight 18 and 19 values.
Actually no idea what happens when you boost a warrior from 17 upwards. Provably it does go to a straight 18 or does it go to a hidden /xx roll?
@lroumen actually both do exist. I recently ran a single class fighter in IWD with an 18, non-exceptional strength. I believe in the rule is, an 18 gained *after* the initial roll does not get the exceptional roll. So if your warrior has a 17 strength and uses the Tome, they get a straight 18. I use a similar rule in PnP, and was recreating such a character for IWD, so I had to use EEKeeper.
Similarly there is no reason a non-warrior character can’t have an exceptional strength, there is just no way of naturally getting there in an IE game (except certain temporary buffing spells). The game will always treat an 18 getting a +1 as a 19. Not unreasonable I suppose! But what a huge step! As gamers we all know there’s actually several steps in between. I imagine this was a matter of conserving resources in the original coding of the game?
It’s just one of those things much easier to manage in a PnP game.
I didn't read all of this since there's a LOT here but generally if I pick Viconia, she's getting the mace that boosts STR to 18 immediately. That allows her to carry stuff and equip armor without too much micromanagement. Swapping to a sling will get her stuck in place until I swap back to the mace but the armor that is already equipped stays on so it's not so bad. She is often also the recipient of the 19 STR belt just to take even that away.
> Hexxat gets my vote for most obnoxious of the new characters, <
Heresy! Best true thief in the game. Imoen and Nalia are mages who slummed a bit in their youth, and grabbed some thief skills; they will never, ever be able to do stuff like set traps. Your only real alternatives are to recruit Jan Jannsen, or play a thief variant yourself. Also, Hexxat's Vampire abilities far outweigh Jan's cyber-punk techno gear, while her coffin doubles as a Bag of Holding.
Well, I’m not much interested in thieves, or vampires, or anything evil. So Hexxat does nothing for me.
But more to the point here, she takes over the game for several seconds and you have to click through a number of interactions all to say “go away”. Neera and Rasaad do the same thing, very annoying. I have them all set to leave me alone now, through a mod. But they are a bit intrusive and obnoxious.
The big issue I have with Hexxat is that recruiting her means playing a protagonist who stands by while a vampire murders one of their own party members—and then immediately invites that vampire to join.
Even with evil parties, I usually imagine there’s at least some level of trust. If the leader shows they’ll casually abandon someone, what does that do to party cohesion?
You may argue that Hexxat (Clara) is just a temporary companion who doesn’t yet have the group’s full support. Fair enough—but even then, why leave her to her fate without so much as testing the attacker’s strength? And if you are too afraid to fight, why not retreat while the vampire is occupied?
If the real concern is dodging her fee, there are cleaner ways to handle it: kill her when she’s served her purpose, on your own terms.
Letting her get eaten on the spot feels sloppy.
---
That said, my last protagonist actually was the sort of person who’d go along with it. A chaotic neutral nutcase, she had the awkward habit of obeying the requests of any pretty girl—carefully steering clear of paladin lasses, since binding herself to one would sooner or later drive her mad.
Caelar Argent was a wake-up call; she grew more wary, a little disillusioned with “pretty girls.”
When she met Clara in the Copper Coronet and heard her request, she knew the girl was running headlong toward her own death. But this time she felt callous about it. Why not grant the request literally—help Clara find the misfortune she was so determined to meet?
The big issue I have with Hexxat is that recruiting her means playing a protagonist who stands by while a vampire murders one of their own party members—and then immediately invites that vampire to join.
Meanwhile BG1 Edwin asks to murder someone without giving reasons or offering a tangible reason to do so, and the only way to recruit him is to agree to do it without knowing reward or motivation.
Hexxat at least express regret AND tell why she needs to do it.
So sorry to say that, but anyone having no problem recruiting Edwin in BG1 but being picky about Hexxat is an hypocrite. Edwin BG2 also asks to kill two guy before joining.
@Trouveur I am not sure you followed my reasoning at all. I never implied that evil protagonists should not murder people, or not take murder lightly. (in fact, I suggested murdering Clara)
I was talking about being able to trust the people whom you have to trust.
If it were only possible to recruit Edwin if you already had Dynaheir in your party, and only by instantly agreeing to his request to murder her, then you would have a point. But that is not the case. You pick up Edwin in Nashkel, and then you go and murder a stranger.
>The big issue I have with Hexxat is that recruiting her means playing a protagonist who stands by while a vampire murders one of their own party members—and then immediately invites that vampire to join.<
I'm sorry ... are we playing a different game, or what? This is hardly my interpretation of events. Clara is not a member of the party by any leans; she is an innocent civilian, a sacrificial lamb, whose death is needed for Hexxat herself to progress. Any evil comrades would appreciate the necessity. If anything, they would applaud Hexxat for her ruthless pragmatism.
It's been a while since I have done this quest, but when Hexxat sheds the dead husk that was Clara, she goes by herself through some sort of barrier, if I recall. Plenty of time for me to reassure the rest of the crew that all is well.
Comments
Do you play brackets for all classes? Because in BG a straight 18 does not exist for warriors and they default to at least 18/01 at character creation, while non-warriors skip all the brackets and only use the straight 18 and 19 values.
Actually no idea what happens when you boost a warrior from 17 upwards. Provably it does go to a straight 18 or does it go to a hidden /xx roll?
Similarly there is no reason a non-warrior character can’t have an exceptional strength, there is just no way of naturally getting there in an IE game (except certain temporary buffing spells). The game will always treat an 18 getting a +1 as a 19. Not unreasonable I suppose! But what a huge step! As gamers we all know there’s actually several steps in between. I imagine this was a matter of conserving resources in the original coding of the game?
It’s just one of those things much easier to manage in a PnP game.
Heresy! Best true thief in the game. Imoen and Nalia are mages who slummed a bit in their youth, and grabbed some thief skills; they will never, ever be able to do stuff like set traps. Your only real alternatives are to recruit Jan Jannsen, or play a thief variant yourself. Also, Hexxat's Vampire abilities far outweigh Jan's cyber-punk techno gear, while her coffin doubles as a Bag of Holding.
But more to the point here, she takes over the game for several seconds and you have to click through a number of interactions all to say “go away”. Neera and Rasaad do the same thing, very annoying. I have them all set to leave me alone now, through a mod. But they are a bit intrusive and obnoxious.
Even with evil parties, I usually imagine there’s at least some level of trust. If the leader shows they’ll casually abandon someone, what does that do to party cohesion?
You may argue that Hexxat (Clara) is just a temporary companion who doesn’t yet have the group’s full support. Fair enough—but even then, why leave her to her fate without so much as testing the attacker’s strength? And if you are too afraid to fight, why not retreat while the vampire is occupied?
If the real concern is dodging her fee, there are cleaner ways to handle it: kill her when she’s served her purpose, on your own terms.
Letting her get eaten on the spot feels sloppy.
---
That said, my last protagonist actually was the sort of person who’d go along with it. A chaotic neutral nutcase, she had the awkward habit of obeying the requests of any pretty girl—carefully steering clear of paladin lasses, since binding herself to one would sooner or later drive her mad.
Caelar Argent was a wake-up call; she grew more wary, a little disillusioned with “pretty girls.”
When she met Clara in the Copper Coronet and heard her request, she knew the girl was running headlong toward her own death. But this time she felt callous about it. Why not grant the request literally—help Clara find the misfortune she was so determined to meet?
Hexxat at least express regret AND tell why she needs to do it.
So sorry to say that, but anyone having no problem recruiting Edwin in BG1 but being picky about Hexxat is an hypocrite. Edwin BG2 also asks to kill two guy before joining.
I was talking about being able to trust the people whom you have to trust.
If it were only possible to recruit Edwin if you already had Dynaheir in your party, and only by instantly agreeing to his request to murder her, then you would have a point. But that is not the case. You pick up Edwin in Nashkel, and then you go and murder a stranger.
I'm sorry ... are we playing a different game, or what? This is hardly my interpretation of events. Clara is not a member of the party by any leans; she is an innocent civilian, a sacrificial lamb, whose death is needed for Hexxat herself to progress. Any evil comrades would appreciate the necessity. If anything, they would applaud Hexxat for her ruthless pragmatism.