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Stalker or Archer?

I've narrowed down my class choices down to Stalker or Archer (it's an RP thing - I love the idea of roleplaying a stealthy, speedy protagonist without being a thief), but I'm trying to settle on my final choice. Is there anyone out there with experience of either kit (or both!) and can share their experiences?

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Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I favor the Archer personally, but that's at least in part because I tend to favor damage over utility (especially in games like BG where the utility doesn't enter into play as much).

    I also like the concept of being a master of my chosen weapon, which the Archer fits nicely.

  • Kang54Kang54 Member Posts: 58
    I concur with what's been said.

    The archer loses power quite drastically in mid-late BG2/TOB, so if you're planning to take it all the way through, be aware that it'll end up being little more than a mule for the rest of the party (at least, that's my experience - there are too many immune enemies and not enough/any really high-powered arrows).

    RnRClown
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Kang54 said:

    I concur with what's been said.

    The archer loses power quite drastically in mid-late BG2/TOB, so if you're planning to take it all the way through, be aware that it'll end up being little more than a mule for the rest of the party (at least, that's my experience - there are too many immune enemies and not enough/any really high-powered arrows).

    By the time you're there, they are plenty good with melee weapons really so it doesn't matter much. That was my experience.

    Archers definitely lack nothing in power, they're just not very entertaining.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Kang54 said:

    I concur with what's been said.

    The archer loses power quite drastically in mid-late BG2/TOB, so if you're planning to take it all the way through, be aware that it'll end up being little more than a mule for the rest of the party (at least, that's my experience - there are too many immune enemies and not enough/any really high-powered arrows).

    How does the Archer "lose power," exactly? A hasted Archer is a death-dealing machine gun.

    QuartzCyricist
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    They lose power primarily because of their reliance on depletable ammunition, meaning that in the later game they have difficulty damaging a lot of the more challenging foes (unless you stock up on +3 and +4 arrows, which not everybody remembers to do). They'd be more useful if bows granted their enchantment to their ammunition (so a +5 bow treats its ammunition as +5 for the purposes of damaging enemies).

  • Kang54Kang54 Member Posts: 58


    How does the Archer "lose power," exactly? A hasted Archer is a death-dealing machine gun.

    As I said, I remember a lot of immune enemies later on. Could be that I recall it incorrectly - it's been a while.

    And yes, for anything that's not immune, it's the machine gun of death.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Kang54 said:


    As I said, I remember a lot of immune enemies later on. Could be that I recall it incorrectly - it's been a while.

    And yes, for anything that's not immune, it's the machine gun of death.

    ...Immune to what, exactly? Arrows? What enemy besides clay golems are immune to arrows?

    Cyricist
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    It's mostly the enemies that are immune to normal, +1, +2, or +3 weapons. If you're not using magic ammunition, your +5 Composite Longbow is useless.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Then just use the right ammunition to suit the enemy. I don't see the problem.

    Cyricist
  • Kang54Kang54 Member Posts: 58
    Well, arrows are also enchanted just like the melee weapons, so it follows that mobs that are immune to anything but +5 weapons will also be immune to anything but +5 arrows. I can't remember any +5 arrows, can't remember with +4.

    But in either case, this is a moot point for BGEE. Just wanted to mention it, as I was quite frustrated with my archer in BG2

    toanwrath
  • Aegir_FellwoodAegir_Fellwood Member Posts: 81
    What thief (kit) are you planning to take along? Just asking since the stalker has backstab, and a swashbuckler does not.

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    As has been stated above the Archer can be less effective late into the second game and its expansion. However, in BG:EE they will be devastating. I've played an Elf Archer through BGTuTu and I was a beast. I think my THAC0 was around 2 or so when I fought Sarevok. I didn't miss.

    The Stalker is fun aswell, I never used one in BG1, but they can deal some pretty major damage in the second game. Sadly in ToB I found a lot of enemies would be either immune to backstab or would just see through my stealth and characters invisibility, even with non-detection on. Cheesey.

  • KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142

    What thief (kit) are you planning to take along?


    Imoen, though we'll see what happens. I'd focus my thief on detecting traps and lockpicking.

  • Aegir_FellwoodAegir_Fellwood Member Posts: 81
    Hmm I guess it depends on playstyle and to what degree you roleplay, but in short; the stalkers "thing" is backstab, and the archers is arrows. Now, Imoen is already scouting ahead for traps, so what kind of "backup" do you prefer to bring along - a backstabber or an archer (?)

    Also keep in mind that with an archer you'll have to micromanage arrows, imo not a big deal as he is quite powerful, but still something to consider ;)

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,559
    edited November 2012
    Kenyon said:

    I've narrowed down my class choices down to Stalker or Archer (it's an RP thing - I love the idea of roleplaying a stealthy, speedy protagonist without being a thief), but I'm trying to settle on my final choice. Is there anyone out there with experience of either kit (or both!) and can share their experiences?

    IMO, it depends on whether you're planning on taking the char all the way through BG2 and TOB.

    An archer is better suited for BG1 IMO, which is ideal for ranged weapon parties - it helps minimize the amount of melee combat (which is especially helpful early in the game, when you only have a handful of HPs), and you can diffuse almost any spellcaster with ranged weapons.

    Archers are less effective in BG2 though, which requires a more versatile approach to beat the improved spellcasters and more powerful monsters - although, if you don't intend to take someone like Mazzy or Valygar along with you, you would benefit from having at least one powerful archer in your party.

  • KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142

    IMO, it depends on whether you're planning on taking the char all the way through BG2 and TOB.

    Yes, I intend to take the character all the way through BG2:EE. :)

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Stalker, because I like it close and personal...

    Archers are too stand offish to my liking...

    On a serious note. Archers will own BG1. Stalker would own BG2. All down to missiles not being as effective in BG2 as mentioned before.

    Oxford_Guylolien
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,559


    ...Immune to what, exactly? Arrows? What enemy besides clay golems are immune to arrows?

    Maybe not "immune" per say, but a lot of spellcasters can put up protections that will foil almost any missile, even arrows of dispelling. Plus, their contingencies and sequences enable them to continue casting spells even when getting hit and/or poisoned by arrows. The enemies in BG1 weren't of a high enough level to attain this kind of magic.

    Don't get me wrong, I still think ranged weapons are useful in BG2, but they can't simply own the game the way they could in BG1.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Kang54 said:

    Well, arrows are also enchanted just like the melee weapons, so it follows that mobs that are immune to anything but +5 weapons will also be immune to anything but +5 arrows. I can't remember any +5 arrows, can't remember with +4.

    Do arrows of piercing count as +4 weapons in these terms? Am not sure.

  • FouneFoune Member Posts: 53
    I'm addicted to backstab in this game so I'd go for stalker since it's much more fun, though I prefer an assassin if you're gonna backstab for the 7x modifier, the stalker has a much better thac0 and fighting compability than an assassin but then again you can build an assassin strong enough to become a real fighting machine.

    FuzzyPuffin
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Stalker is my favourite ranger kit and plays more like my concept of what a Ranger is, I.e a lightly armoured stealthy fighter. The extra arcane spells at higher level are nice too.

    KenyonQuartz
  • AndrelohaAndreloha Member Posts: 3
    Could the Archer be a good option to dual for a Mage/Sorcerer?
    I would like to be a Sorcerer but start BG1 as an Archer up to say Lev .4-5 then dual to Sorcerer. This way I get good HP to start and some usefulness at low level which will also come back once the Sorcerer reach Lev 4-5. Also the archer, like the sorcerer, tries to stay away from melee to be most effective. The armor restriction also suit it well. Any comment ?

  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    Archer is more effective in terms of raw damage output, but with the downside of having a bloody legolas in your party. Stalker has a cooler playstyle (think hulking agent backstabber). Your choice.

    Remember that bows are very effective in BG1, so a party with an archer will go off like a frog in a sock.

  • RogueJKRogueJK Member Posts: 10
    edited November 2012
    Andreloha said:

    Could the Archer be a good option to dual for a Mage/Sorcerer?
    I would like to be a Sorcerer but start BG1 as an Archer up to say Lev .4-5 then dual to Sorcerer. This way I get good HP to start and some usefulness at low level which will also come back once the Sorcerer reach Lev 4-5. Also the archer, like the sorcerer, tries to stay away from melee to be most effective. The armor restriction also suit it well. Any comment ?

    Since Archers are a Ranger kit, you cannot Dual Class them to either a Mage or Sorcerer. According to the rules, Rangers can only dual class to Clerics. And in the BG series, I believe that the Archer and Stalker are specifically barred from Dual Classing, even into Clerics.

    Also, you cannot have a Multi or Dual Class Sorcerer.

    So the closest you can get to an Archer>Sorcerer dual class is a Fighter>Mage, but it won't be quite the same. You can put your Fighter weapon proficiency points into Bows or Crossbows, and with a 18+ Dex and 3 or more WP points in your ranged weapon of choice, it will a fairly strong ranged attacker. But you won't get Called Shot or have any of the Ranger benefits, like Stealth, Charm Animal, or Priest spells, and you'll especially miss out on the Archer's "+1 to hit and damage per 3 levels".

  • AndrelohaAndreloha Member Posts: 3
    Thank you RogueJK. I will consider a Fighter => Mage however I do like the Sorcerer ... maybe I can keep it for BG2 where it will be more powerful.
    What about Monk, can it dual to Mage ?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,303
    Andreloha said:

    Thank you RogueJK. I will consider a Fighter => Mage however I do like the Sorcerer ... maybe I can keep it for BG2 where it will be more powerful.
    What about Monk, can it dual to Mage ?

    No. Monks are barred from dualing into anything.

  • RogueJKRogueJK Member Posts: 10
    edited November 2012
    In order for you to be able to Dual Class, it has to be an allowable Multi Class pairing. So if you'll check out pages 51 and 52 in the manual, it lists all of the various multi class combinations, like Fighter-Thief, Ranger-Cleric, Thief-Mage, Fighter-Druid, etc. Notice that there are no Paladin, Sorcerer, Bard, Monk, or Barbarian multi class combinations, and therefore you cannot dual class to or from any of those classes.

  • KenyonKenyon Member Posts: 142
    Good arguments for both. I'd say I can't really go wrong either way. :)

  • GrandeCGrandeC Member Posts: 26
    Can Stalkers backstab with any melee weapon they can use?

    RAM021
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