I think the combat was well done. Gorion obliterates Sarevok companions (btw he starts with mirror image), then casts stonskin and something else to deal with Sarevok. For a moment I was thinking how is Sarevok going to kill him to make it look convincingly. Then his buffs get dispelled and Sarevok cleaves him in half. I am satisfied.
I don't care how many times I've played the intro to this game (a lot): I still hope that one day Gorion will win. Even though it looks like he's scripted to die after an amount of time (I've definitely seen him die without Sarevok swinging at him).
I don't care how many times I've played the intro to this game (a lot): I still hope that one day Gorion will win. Even though it looks like he's scripted to die after an amount of time (I've definitely seen him die without Sarevok swinging at him).
Saw a vid where a dude had boosted Gog and he cast a Prison on the priest, so Gog was powerful, for some weird reason Gog suddenly laid down after killing all the henchmen, Sav even missed alot but Got eventually died without putting up a fight against Sav.
However powerful Gorion was supposed to be, he cannot have been powerful enough for eighth and ninth level spells. Time Stop, Simulacrum, Greater Malison, Lower Resistance, Chain Contingency, Abu-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting x 3, and probably a few other spell combos could have taken out Sarevok and his whole party within one round. Gorion would have laughed at them for being stupid enough to attack him.
That might make a fun game - create your own seventh, eighth and ninth level spell combo for obliterating Sarevok and his whole party in one round.
Yeah, but in the original, better then half the time, Gorion comes within ~24 hp of killing Sarevok (AFTER killing or disabling ALL of his helpers first) (those dagger swipes could've easily been taken care of by tightening the scripting events)...in this version, he kills most of the mooks, ignores Tamoko who dispels all the fancy protections he wasted slots on, then he hit's Sarevok with 1 acid arrow before getting splattered across the windshield of the Murder-train.
I'd say the original was better...the new one is just all flashy lights and noise, without a whole lot going on (typical movie fare for the last few years, interestingly)
@rdarken Get a unpatched version of the original baldur's gate (6 disc version). About 3% of the time, Gorion kills the armored figure and locks the game up. They buffed his HP, and removed 2 MM volleys to keep it from happening again.
I have the six disc version I don't know if it would run on Win7, though, if I had the motivation to get it out of storage (spoiler alert: I do not). Cool info, though, thank you!
Yeah, but in the original, better then half the time, Gorion comes within ~24 hp of killing Sarevok (AFTER killing or disabling ALL of his helpers first) (those dagger swipes could've easily been taken care of by tightening the scripting events)...in this version, he kills most of the mooks, ignores Tamoko who dispels all the fancy protections he wasted slots on, then he hit's Sarevok with 1 acid arrow before getting splattered across the windshield of the Murder-train.
I'd say the original was better...the new one is just all flashy lights and noise, without a whole lot going on (typical movie fare for the last few years, interestingly)
Not sure if I agree. He has no reload knowledge and barely knows who he's fighting. He's a high level mage; it stands to reason that he should be able to resist any attempts from a priest at dispelling his protections, and he can count on those protections to stave off Sarevok. Tamoko's power level is clearly a surprise to him when it clears his combat protections, so he nullifies her, but is too weak at this point to do much against Sarevok.
The new fight actually makes sense to me, both in it's observance of DnD rules and in the behavior of the combatants. The old one is just fake spells and a confusing amount of Magic Missiles fired FAR too quickly. I much prefer the new one.
This is actually a good point. If you take into account his possible arrogance that @Greenman019 mentioned, it stands to reason that he wasn't that prepared.
Even if he's not really that arrogant, there's a good chance he wouldn't be bringing much more than some offensive spells and some minor defense. Remember that he was just bringing CHARNAME to the Friendly Arm Inn. We managed to make our way there at level 1 just fine, so Gorion probably through some Magic Missiles would be more than enough to take care of whatever gibberlings, xvarts, or wolves may attack us. He would have been right, if Sarevok had not attacked. As @Madhax said, Gorion had no idea who he was up against. Given that CHARNAME had already been attacked twice (and managed to take them out alone), maybe Gorion thought they weren't anything to worry about. After all, he took care of the lackeys pretty easily. Who would have thought the last one standing would be THAT tough?
Bah, if you encounter som big party that isn't excatly nice talking and specially when the dude talking has a very evil looking armor, you should know he won't drink tea with you and chit chat about fishing tips.
Bah, if you encounter som big party that isn't excatly nice talking and specially when the dude talking has a very evil looking armor, you should know he won't drink tea with you and chit chat about fishing tips.
It's not like Gorion just rolled over. The only reason we know who we would focus on killing/controlling in that fight is because we know who those combatants are. Gorion didn't, and even if he had some idea of Sarevok's power, he wouldn't count on Tamoko being similarly powerful. Gorion's attempts in BGEE seem akin to a so-so player's first attempt at a difficult fight. He probably could have won if he reloaded, but there's no reason to expect that he'd have a perfect strategy in place on the fly.
It's not like Gorion just rolled over. The only reason we know who we would focus on killing/controlling in that fight is because we know who those combatants are. Gorion didn't, and even if he had some idea of Sarevok's power, he wouldn't count on Tamoko being similarly powerful. Gorion's attempts in BGEE seem akin to a so-so player's first attempt at a difficult fight. He probably could have won if he reloaded, but there's no reason to expect that he'd have a perfect strategy in place on the fly.
Gorion is a very old man, and shouldn't excatly be a clueless n00b at such encounters, should have read heaps of books on such battles.
to me it looked like gorion didn't feel terribly threatened and expected to make an easy pie out of them with straightforward offensive spells, but he woefully underestimated sarevok's power.
to me it looked like gorion didn't feel terribly threatened and expected to make an easy pie out of them with straightforward offensive spells, but he woefully underestimated sarevok's power.
Agreed and in D&D ruleset terms, and as mentioned earlier, i doubt gorion was as prepared as he'd have liked to be so only memorized some basic low lvl spells and no doubt was trying to prevent such an encounter by leaving suddenly and at night. Oops! Sarevok unexpectedly shows up. Add also the fact that(here's where i disagree to an extent) gorion may not have been as prepared as he should have been but neither did he expect Sarevok to be that strong...and he fought this battle like many of us would have. Take out the weaker ennemies 1st to prevent being badly outnumbered then focusing on the big guy. Just my 2 cents.
yeah... i've even often imagined how he had some more powerful but slow to cast spells memorized - but couldn't use them since he's already lost the initiative with sarevok at his throat
I dunno...he had the presence of mind of carry scroll on his person telling you where to go in the event of his death, and Mary Sue sent him a warning to get the PC out of Candlekeep ASAP.
And he's a EXTREMELY experienced adventurer....in the original, he knew what to do, take out the caster ASAP, blow away the ogres since he's knows roughly how strong they are having fought dozens of them over the years, then lay into the unknown element with extreme prejudice (I've always assumed his IA was some special harper trick Big E or Blackstaff taught him).
And it's not like he didn't know who Sarevok was, perhaps a little surprised he came in person, but he wasn't exactly shocked. Sarevok had visited Candlekeep several times in the past, looking through their lore on Bhaal prophesies and such. So much so that Gorion had asked Tethtoril to flat out spy on him whenever he visited.
I dunno...he had the presence of mind of carry scroll on his person telling you where to go in the event of his death, and Mary Sue sent him a warning to get the PC out of Candlekeep ASAP.
That was a letter addressed to him, not a clue in case he died. (He does tell you where to go, but that's in case you become "separated", not in case he dies.)
And he's a EXTREMELY experienced adventurer....in the original, he knew what to do, take out the caster ASAP, blow away the ogres since he's knows roughly how strong they are having fought dozens of them over the years, then lay into the unknown element with extreme prejudice (I've always assumed his IA was some special harper trick Big E or Blackstaff taught him).
He "knew what to do"? Really? He doesn't use higher than 3rd level spells, despite being a 9th level mage.
He should have at the very least cast Stoneskin (which, surprise surprise, he does in the improved version), Mirror Image (again... weee, he does that now!) instead of a single 1st-level defensive spell. In the original, he was asking to get gypped.
And it's not like he didn't know who Sarevok was, perhaps a little surprised he came in person, but he wasn't exactly shocked. Sarevok had visited Candlekeep several times in the past, looking through their lore on Bhaal prophesies and such. So much so that Gorion had asked Tethtoril to flat out spy on him whenever he visited.
Knowing someone's identity is not the same as knowing how powerful they are in combat.
He "knew what to do"? Really? He doesn't use higher than 3rd level spells, despite being a 9th level mage.
You gave me cause to remember something that bugged me back when the game first came out. If memory serves, in the original battle Gorion casts magic missile twice, and each time he fires 5 missiles. That's one missile per 3 levels, 3X5 = 15th level mage, at least, not just 9th. This means he should be able to cast at least 7th level spells. That battle didn't make much sense unless he was unprepared and very unlucky with his rolls. It happens to the best of them. The new battle makes more sense, even if it comes down to a tactical error, meaning that he should have taken down the caster first.
He "knew what to do"? Really? He doesn't use higher than 3rd level spells, despite being a 9th level mage.
You gave me cause to remember something that bugged me back when the game first came out. If memory serves, in the original battle Gorion casts magic missile twice, and each time he fires 5 missiles. That's one missile per 3 levels, 3X5 = 15th level mage, at least, not just 9th. This means he should be able to cast at least 7th level spells. That battle didn't make much sense unless he was unprepared and very unlucky with his rolls. It happens to the best of them. The new battle makes more sense, even if it comes down to a tactical error, meaning that he should have taken down the caster first.
Magic Missile caps out at 5 missiles, but you get 1 missile + 1 missile per additional 2 levels after the first, not per 3rd level. (A good rule to remember is that a mage can cast a Magic Missile with as many missiles as he has levels of spells, to a maximum of 5.)
I think he was going to poke Sarevok in the eye with his wand of magic missiles. He reaches for it just before the final blow, but it is strangely missing from his belt..
Gorion was unavoidably pulled away from the computer at just that moment; he didn't even get a chance to pause. He had to trust the AI script to run his character.
What really stinks is that he had forgotten to save for quite some time. His last save happened long enough ago that he didn't bother reloading and going through it all again.
So the real lesson that our foster father taught us is to compulsively save and pause. Failing to do so was his downfall.
Your lengthy discussion shows what a great job both the creators of original BG and the creators of BG:EE did. I guess they couldn't have hoped for a better outcome than their fans arguing on a message board. Long live BG.
Is it just my sore eyes or the fight is not the same every time. I'd swear i've seen Gorion killking off Tamoko (or making her disappear at least) a few times vs. regular fights, where she stays there till the end. Gorion dies all the same anyway.
Well they also added a bandit and a black talon bandit guess they are there in the new scene to show that the bandits are working for Sarevok. Old battle 2 ogres, Sarevok and Tamoko, New battle same as before + Bandit and Blacktalon + it's more of a tactic battle were Gorion buffs himself, OH NO get's debuffed he uses some aoe dmg to clear the enemies up. So he did get a bit more kickass but still only Charname can defeat Sarevok or no game would be there to play
@jolly_bb The script does run with some subtle differences each time. It all depends on the formation of Sarevok's group when they walk up which can change right before dialog begins. This messes with the timing just a bit and can lead to a small amount of variety with the timing. The formation relies on pathfinding and bumping into eachother... so sometimes both archers are visible, sometimes only one and Tamoko, sometimes only Tamoko, etc. But Sarevok and the ogres are in the lead and that usually runs the same.
He "knew what to do"? Really? He doesn't use higher than 3rd level spells, despite being a 9th level mage.
You gave me cause to remember something that bugged me back when the game first came out. If memory serves, in the original battle Gorion casts magic missile twice, and each time he fires 5 missiles. That's one missile per 3 levels, 3X5 = 15th level mage, at least, not just 9th. This means he should be able to cast at least 7th level spells. That battle didn't make much sense unless he was unprepared and very unlucky with his rolls. It happens to the best of them. The new battle makes more sense, even if it comes down to a tactical error, meaning that he should have taken down the caster first.
Magic Missile caps out at 5 missiles, but you get 1 missile + 1 missile per additional 2 levels after the first, not per 3rd level. (A good rule to remember is that a mage can cast a Magic Missile with as many missiles as he has levels of spells, to a maximum of 5.)
I stand corrected, it's 1 magic missile is added at level 3, etc, not every 3 levels. That would bring Gorion at least to level 9. It adds up. And i wondered all these years! I played a mage and never realised my folly! (and self beating rant goes on..)
Comments
It's hard scripted that Gog will die
That might make a fun game - create your own seventh, eighth and ninth level spell combo for obliterating Sarevok and his whole party in one round.
I'd say the original was better...the new one is just all flashy lights and noise, without a whole lot going on (typical movie fare for the last few years, interestingly)
@rdarken
Get a unpatched version of the original baldur's gate (6 disc version). About 3% of the time, Gorion kills the armored figure and locks the game up. They buffed his HP, and removed 2 MM volleys to keep it from happening again.
Cool info, though, thank you!
The new fight actually makes sense to me, both in it's observance of DnD rules and in the behavior of the combatants. The old one is just fake spells and a confusing amount of Magic Missiles fired FAR too quickly. I much prefer the new one.
Even if he's not really that arrogant, there's a good chance he wouldn't be bringing much more than some offensive spells and some minor defense. Remember that he was just bringing CHARNAME to the Friendly Arm Inn. We managed to make our way there at level 1 just fine, so Gorion probably through some Magic Missiles would be more than enough to take care of whatever gibberlings, xvarts, or wolves may attack us. He would have been right, if Sarevok had not attacked. As @Madhax said, Gorion had no idea who he was up against. Given that CHARNAME had already been attacked twice (and managed to take them out alone), maybe Gorion thought they weren't anything to worry about. After all, he took care of the lackeys pretty easily. Who would have thought the last one standing would be THAT tough?
And he's a EXTREMELY experienced adventurer....in the original, he knew what to do, take out the caster ASAP, blow away the ogres since he's knows roughly how strong they are having fought dozens of them over the years, then lay into the unknown element with extreme prejudice (I've always assumed his IA was some special harper trick Big E or Blackstaff taught him).
And it's not like he didn't know who Sarevok was, perhaps a little surprised he came in person, but he wasn't exactly shocked. Sarevok had visited Candlekeep several times in the past, looking through their lore on Bhaal prophesies and such. So much so that Gorion had asked Tethtoril to flat out spy on him whenever he visited.
He should have at the very least cast Stoneskin (which, surprise surprise, he does in the improved version), Mirror Image (again... weee, he does that now!) instead of a single 1st-level defensive spell. In the original, he was asking to get gypped. Knowing someone's identity is not the same as knowing how powerful they are in combat.
What really stinks is that he had forgotten to save for quite some time. His last save happened long enough ago that he didn't bother reloading and going through it all again.
So the real lesson that our foster father taught us is to compulsively save and pause. Failing to do so was his downfall.
Gorion dies all the same anyway.
Anyone?
Here is the list of spells that are cast:
Gorion -
Contingency - Mirror Image, Prot/Magical Weapons/Vocalize
Magic Missile - Ogre
Flesh to Stone - Ogre
Mirror Image - self
Lightning Bolt - Ogre
Stoneskin - self
Fireball - Tamoko/Thugs
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere - Tamoko
Melf's Acid Arrow - Sarevok
Tamoko -
Draw Upon Holy Might - self
Flamestrike - Gorion
Dispel Magic - Gorion