I would have voted Forgotten Realms it it was more like it is depicted in BG and IWD and less like big mess full of high-level novel characters and a generic-alised setting where every class, race, prestige class etc. can be put in everywhere.
Planescape is exciting, full of atmosphere and philosophical themes. I think it also might be the best D&D setting for campaigns that rely little on actual fighting.
I found this hilarious since Planescape is basically a setting that allows the players to go to any setting they want thereby incorporating literally every class, race, prestige class etc.
If you find in your FR games that these iconic novel characters are running around ruining your fun it sounds more like a problem with your DM than the setting. There's only 1 Drizzt in a world of millions of people, he's also kinda kept in one region of the entire world. If you're having problems with the snowbound ranger running down to Calimshan and stealing your lootz then maybe you should ask your DM, DAFUQ?!
I voted FR with the understanding that the 4th editon FR never existed. 4th edition basically took the great big rich history and landscape that was the FR and crushed it down into any easier to swallow pill, for all the little kiddies who just wanna blow stuff up and not read books and whatnot, then popped a squat and shit all over the pill, handed it to us and told us it was chocolate coated. Only the true FR fans could see through their lies... their lies of shit. Shit abyss, Ran... Shit Abyss.
While FR is quite generic, it is also the most fleshed out of the settings. This counter-balances its normality somewhat, as there's still a lot of non-generic stuff to discover. I do agree, however, that it could use some improvement. The Spellplague was very controversial, but even before there were suboptimal parts (say, the gods being a soap opera, several regions being straight real-world rip-offs or the focus on hi-powered super NPCs who took center stage even though they were only a very, very small part of the Realms).
I think the best thing about the Realms is that they keep evolving. I'd just appreciate it if they reprinted older material for those who want to play in certain eras or dislike part or all of the evolution. I wasn't around much during 2E, and I'm a little sad that I'm not able to buy 2E FR supplements without selling my friends to slave traders. Even 3E stuff is already getting prohibitely expensive.
I haven't played pen-and-paper D&D since 2nd edition, so I'm not a huge authority over what the settings are like now. Regardless, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, Planescape was by far the most imaginative and interesting.
Usually I play games with an original (I use that lightly) universe. It really makes it easier as a DM when you can just make up the macguffin's name and not get called out on it.
Ah, I agree completely. Not a huge fan of Planescape, but I do agree about using 'original' universes.
Funny story, my brother had a 3-4 year long campaign and we played twice a month. We ended up going from 4th level to about 17th level (the Cleric had level 9 spells, but we weren't level 20, so it could have been 17-19 I suppose). He had this really awesome story and all of these cool cultures, with very specific details. It was even set in a fantasy version of the United States (or at least the geography/city names, which I thought was rather unique).
Then Dragon Age: Origins came out, and his campaign was no longer original. The plot elements were SO similar, and some of the characters felt like blatant rip offs (even though his campaign was first).
I've been playing Pathfinder in Dark Sun for a few years now and it works well for my group. Having less divine casters makes some of the rules flow better (like explaining why important NPCs don't just get resurrected the moment they die). It's kind of "small" as far as worlds go but that also allows the DM to be creative in coming up with new areas.
We've done plenty of Planescape over the years and that is either tied or right behind. It would be my favorite, but I think familiarity with the setting eventually bred some contempt. The whole "infinite multiverse thing" can make it seem like nothing the characters do is important (because it isn't - if 9 gazillion celestials died every second it wouldn't matter because there are infinite numbers of them).
I do like FR, but it can suffer from a lack of flavor do to the fact that it is so diverse and broad. Some of my players have trouble seeing it as anything more than fantasy universe 45b
@Amera Yay, Pathfinder! Also, while I have not heard of Dark Sun, I generally prefer settings that involve less common divine magic (or less common resurrection). I agree completely on FR (though I would like to try it out just once).
I'm an Eberron fan, though most PnP games use the DM's own homebrew campaign setting. I'm a 4e fan, though I play mostly D&D 3.5 nowadays because 4e is very inconvenient to play online due to its battlegrid-based tactical combat. 3.5 and 4e Eberron are virtually indistinguishable in terms of fluff, though mechanics-wise 4e Eberron wins.
4e Dark Sun was also very well-received, and plays radically differently from most 4e settings while still retaining the edition's intricate tactical combat. Fluff-wise, it's indistinguishable from 2e Dark Sun. Combat in 4e is not unlike tactical RPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics, with most of the strategy and tactics moved from character building to the battlegrid.
On the flip side, the 4e Forgotten Realms was and still is controversial. The timeskip and convenient catastrophe were not well-received, and Forgotten Realms fans had more reason to rage when Eberron and Dark Sun were left completely unchanged fluff-wise from previous editions.
I'm currently looking forward to D&D Next, a.k.a. Fifth Edition, which is currently on a public playtest and can be downloaded for free here: https://www.wizards.com/DnD/DnDNext.aspx Currently, it features the best of 2e, 3e, and 4e: 2e's rich flavor text, 3e's customization, and 4e's game balance.
I would vote Forgotten Realms, except for, you know, the Spellplague, the advancing the timeline a hundred years, the ruining of the setting, and so on. So I don't know. Eberron is okay I guess, and outside of the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil campaign I was in once, I havent done a lot of Greyhawk.
Forgotten Realms is the best D&D setting. Well... at least it was until AD&D 2nd Edition. D&D 3rd and 4th Edition ruined the lore of Forgotten Realms in my opinion.
But Dragonlance have great stories. It would be very pleasant to have a game in Baldur's Gate format (6 men party) covering the story of the "Chronicles Trilogy". Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning. It would be awesome.
Also, a game in the same style setting in Dark Sun would be nice too. It could have an original brutal story, like the stories of Conan.
But Dragonlance have great stories. It would be very pleasant to have a game in Baldur's Gate format (6 men party) covering the story of the "Chronicles Trilogy". Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning. It would be awesome.
But the heroes in those books start with eight guys!
Why can't we ever play with eight people? It's always six, even though all the best groups (Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc.) have had more.
But Dragonlance have great stories. It would be very pleasant to have a game in Baldur's Gate format (6 men party) covering the story of the "Chronicles Trilogy". Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning. It would be awesome.
But the heroes in those books start with eight guys!
Why can't we ever play with eight people? It's always six, even though all the best groups (Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc.) have had more.
I guess it gets too much people for you to control. For my taste, 6 is enough... I prefere to swap party members, depending on the moment of the story, than have everyone all the time. Sometimes it's nice to put aside a character (even a very good character), to let others shine too. Then, after some adventures, you bring back that great character that could even be your favourite NPC.
Also, I like multi focus storylines. Maybe your party divide to accomplish two or three adventures simultaneously. So you play three chapters with three completely different groups. Afterwards the party joint togheter and you select the best six... But it's not permanent. You can change the party anytime. I appreciate a lot this kind of stuff.
I'm currently looking forward to D&D Next, a.k.a. Fifth Edition, which is currently on a public playtest and can be downloaded for free here: https://www.wizards.com/DnD/DnDNext.aspx Currently, it features the best of 2e, 3e, and 4e: 2e's rich flavor text, 3e's customization, and 4e's game balance.
I have my doubts that WotC is managed well enough at this point to bring their fans back even with a new edition, but we'll see. I know they have tried to reach out and bring some old designers back on board.
Tangentially, it's kind of grimly amusing that the edition war they created is probably the major reason these Infinity Engine overhauls are locked into a 15+ year old gaming system. They can't convert them to 4e considering how much it would enrage the fans, and they can't do 3e because that would essentially be admitting their failure and giving another boost to their biggest competitor (Paizo). So instead we're stuck with silly 18/xx strength scores forever!
I love the Fantasy Space theme, it's like a multiplier effect on my inner nerd. All the rules, ramming ships, closing sphere portals on top of other ships, explosive phlogiston. The space-traveling civilizations, The Scro, the Elves. Ship dynamics, crew management, the mysteries of exploration, upgrading the ship. Still have images of my mage wreaking unholy terror on an undead pyramid ship, standing on the prow, slicing it up with disintegrate.
A 4X Spelljammer game would be the perfect game for me. Naval engagements on 3 axis, I've already got the open deck ship with a battery of mages ready to unleash upside-down hell outside of ballista field of fire, just gotta make sure to hit those enemy roll sails or cause enough damage to cause the helmsmen to fall unconscious...
The original Forgotten Realms supplement for 1st Edition AD&D was a different product from what it became under 2nd edition. It was more Greyhawk-like in that it consisted of a map and gazetteer which briefly detailed the major places, people and points of interest, but left the world sketchy enough that the DM could flesh it out as desired. And Elminster and co. had not yet been Mary Sued.
Why can't we ever play with eight people? It's always six, even though all the best groups (Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc.) have had more.
I think they do that so they don't insult us. I mean, it's super hard for most people to gather 8 nerds together for a game. I usually start up at 4, and I'm lucky if one doesn't drop out the second week.
Seriously, though, I think it's engine limitation. They would have to make good AI for each character, and they would have to be distinct, so that could clog up an engine. I mean, look at Resident Evil 5. That had one friendly AI character and Capcom claimed that they had to drastically reduce the number of zombies.
I wish Beamdog would make Enhanced Editions of Strahd's Possession and Stone Prophet (I've never actually played them). There really needs to be a contemporary Ravenloft CRPG game.
I'm currently looking forward to D&D Next, a.k.a. Fifth Edition, which is currently on a public playtest and can be downloaded for free here: https://www.wizards.com/DnD/DnDNext.aspx Currently, it features the best of 2e, 3e, and 4e: 2e's rich flavor text, 3e's customization, and 4e's game balance.
I have my doubts that WotC is managed well enough at this point to bring their fans back even with a new edition, but we'll see. I know they have tried to reach out and bring some old designers back on board.
Tangentially, it's kind of grimly amusing that the edition war they created is probably the major reason these Infinity Engine overhauls are locked into a 15+ year old gaming system. They can't convert them to 4e considering how much it would enrage the fans, and they can't do 3e because that would essentially be admitting their failure and giving another boost to their biggest competitor (Paizo). So instead we're stuck with silly 18/xx strength scores forever!
Pathfinder's success I attribute mainly to their high-quality adventure modules. This is something that D&D 3.5 and 4e are sorely lacking, though they have put out and still are releasing modules for 4e. However, they're nowhere as flavorful as the Paizo Pathfinder modules.
The Pathfinder RPG itself is a slightly houseruled version of D&D 3.5 that doesn't fix the glaring problems in that edition while making some problems worse (spellcasters are even better than in 3.5). Furthermore, the Paizo forums, last time I was there (during the playtest), was overrun by anti-intellectual posters who drove away the more mathematically-inclined posters who honestly wanted to fix the bugs in the system.
That said, a player's playgroup matters more than whatever edition you're playing. I've been in some decent Pathfinder campaigns despite not liking Pathfinder that much, and I've been in some terribad 4e campaigns despite being a big 4e fan. It also helps that I don't take roleplaying too seriously so I will never be a nerd raging grognard no matter how many edition changes come in my lifetime.
I really liked Dark Sun just because it gives you a feeling of a tough, rough-and-tumble, underdog feel. You constantly have a fight against all these external forces to just stay alive. It feels challenging and rewarding. It also makes simple things feel like giant successes (like finding metal weapons, food/water, a safe place, ect). I ignore 4th editions version if it for the 2nd edition version-- 4th really got rid of the whole feeling and just made it sounds like regular D&D in a desert.
Comments
If you find in your FR games that these iconic novel characters are running around ruining your fun it sounds more like a problem with your DM than the setting. There's only 1 Drizzt in a world of millions of people, he's also kinda kept in one region of the entire world. If you're having problems with the snowbound ranger running down to Calimshan and stealing your lootz then maybe you should ask your DM, DAFUQ?!
I voted FR with the understanding that the 4th editon FR never existed. 4th edition basically took the great big rich history and landscape that was the FR and crushed it down into any easier to swallow pill, for all the little kiddies who just wanna blow stuff up and not read books and whatnot, then popped a squat and shit all over the pill, handed it to us and told us it was chocolate coated. Only the true FR fans could see through their lies... their lies of shit. Shit abyss, Ran... Shit Abyss.
I think the best thing about the Realms is that they keep evolving. I'd just appreciate it if they reprinted older material for those who want to play in certain eras or dislike part or all of the evolution. I wasn't around much during 2E, and I'm a little sad that I'm not able to buy 2E FR supplements without selling my friends to slave traders. Even 3E stuff is already getting prohibitely expensive.
Funny story, my brother had a 3-4 year long campaign and we played twice a month. We ended up going from 4th level to about 17th level (the Cleric had level 9 spells, but we weren't level 20, so it could have been 17-19 I suppose). He had this really awesome story and all of these cool cultures, with very specific details. It was even set in a fantasy version of the United States (or at least the geography/city names, which I thought was rather unique).
Then Dragon Age: Origins came out, and his campaign was no longer original. The plot elements were SO similar, and some of the characters felt like blatant rip offs (even though his campaign was first).
I guess me and my friends aren't mainstream.
We've done plenty of Planescape over the years and that is either tied or right behind. It would be my favorite, but I think familiarity with the setting eventually bred some contempt. The whole "infinite multiverse thing" can make it seem like nothing the characters do is important (because it isn't - if 9 gazillion celestials died every second it wouldn't matter because there are infinite numbers of them).
I do like FR, but it can suffer from a lack of flavor do to the fact that it is so diverse and broad. Some of my players have trouble seeing it as anything more than fantasy universe 45b
Yay, Pathfinder! Also, while I have not heard of Dark Sun, I generally prefer settings that involve less common divine magic (or less common resurrection). I agree completely on FR (though I would like to try it out just once).
4e Dark Sun was also very well-received, and plays radically differently from most 4e settings while still retaining the edition's intricate tactical combat. Fluff-wise, it's indistinguishable from 2e Dark Sun. Combat in 4e is not unlike tactical RPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics, with most of the strategy and tactics moved from character building to the battlegrid.
On the flip side, the 4e Forgotten Realms was and still is controversial. The timeskip and convenient catastrophe were not well-received, and Forgotten Realms fans had more reason to rage when Eberron and Dark Sun were left completely unchanged fluff-wise from previous editions.
I'm currently looking forward to D&D Next, a.k.a. Fifth Edition, which is currently on a public playtest and can be downloaded for free here: https://www.wizards.com/DnD/DnDNext.aspx Currently, it features the best of 2e, 3e, and 4e: 2e's rich flavor text, 3e's customization, and 4e's game balance.
Guess by default I have to go with Eberron.
But Dragonlance have great stories. It would be very pleasant to have a game in Baldur's Gate format (6 men party) covering the story of the "Chronicles Trilogy". Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning. It would be awesome.
Also, a game in the same style setting in Dark Sun would be nice too. It could have an original brutal story, like the stories of Conan.
Why can't we ever play with eight people? It's always six, even though all the best groups (Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc.) have had more.
Also, I like multi focus storylines. Maybe your party divide to accomplish two or three adventures simultaneously. So you play three chapters with three completely different groups. Afterwards the party joint togheter and you select the best six... But it's not permanent. You can change the party anytime. I appreciate a lot this kind of stuff.
Tangentially, it's kind of grimly amusing that the edition war they created is probably the major reason these Infinity Engine overhauls are locked into a 15+ year old gaming system. They can't convert them to 4e considering how much it would enrage the fans, and they can't do 3e because that would essentially be admitting their failure and giving another boost to their biggest competitor (Paizo). So instead we're stuck with silly 18/xx strength scores forever!
A 4X Spelljammer game would be the perfect game for me. Naval engagements on 3 axis, I've already got the open deck ship with a battery of mages ready to unleash upside-down hell outside of ballista field of fire, just gotta make sure to hit those enemy roll sails or cause enough damage to cause the helmsmen to fall unconscious...
/gone to fantasy land and not coming back
As do a great deal of DnD players i know.
It allows the lore to stay enjoyable.
Seriously, though, I think it's engine limitation. They would have to make good AI for each character, and they would have to be distinct, so that could clog up an engine. I mean, look at Resident Evil 5. That had one friendly AI character and Capcom claimed that they had to drastically reduce the number of zombies.
(Sarcasm)
Edit: how does anyone make a "spoiler" appear???
The Pathfinder RPG itself is a slightly houseruled version of D&D 3.5 that doesn't fix the glaring problems in that edition while making some problems worse (spellcasters are even better than in 3.5). Furthermore, the Paizo forums, last time I was there (during the playtest), was overrun by anti-intellectual posters who drove away the more mathematically-inclined posters who honestly wanted to fix the bugs in the system.
That said, a player's playgroup matters more than whatever edition you're playing. I've been in some decent Pathfinder campaigns despite not liking Pathfinder that much, and I've been in some terribad 4e campaigns despite being a big 4e fan. It also helps that I don't take roleplaying too seriously so I will never be a nerd raging grognard no matter how many edition changes come in my lifetime.