What exactly is a "Save" in the D&D world?
Daelric
Member Posts: 266
So say a character saves vs a spell in D&D, why would a spell have a chance to just fizzle against a certain character? Or is it more realistically maybe a chance the character "dodges" the spell instead? I guess I'm trying to link it to what a save would be in reality, which probably isn't the best idea anyway...
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I understand the score based bonuses were not implemented in BG. Bummer.
But that's not what Constitution is though... its how hardy a character is.
I'm fine with the saving throws not having clear descriptions but I wish the ability scores modified them so that what they represent was more clear, and more variation was present among similarly classed characters.
The lower your "saving throws", the greater a "Super" you are. Theoretically, if your saves were in the negatives, you would be effectively invulnerable against anything but straight physical damage, as in, you would be almost godlike, or at least, a "Flying Brick" with nothing that could hurt you but a greater "Flying Brick."
See this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlyingBrick
and this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperpowerLottery
or this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TropeCo/FlyingBrick
Hit Points are a similar abstraction. I always figure you aren't really injured until you get down to the last couple. Daelric above put it very well.
While clerics have excellent save vs death. Not because they all are toughest bunch , but because they have a connection to positive energies, since they draw on god's power to heal, those energies shield and toughen their bodies and protects from various harmful death, disease and poison related stuff. Or you can say that their gods protect their servants from horrible instantenous deaths like this. That's how I think about it.
Imagine a Disintegrate spell is cast on a character. He must make a save vs spells or his whole body is ripped assunder and turned into dust.
An experienced fighter has amazing combat reflexes and weaşon skill. He sees the ray of disintegration coming, and deflects it with a sword strike. He is so quick and skilled that even his sword is not affected, the deathly ray fizzles and dissipates. He has made a save vs spells.
A master thief is experienced to avoid traps and making quick escapes. He jumps back with an amazing backflip, narrowly avoding the ray, rolls on the ground and readifies a throwing dagger as he gets back on his feet. He has made a save vs spells.
A faithful cleric or paladin sees the deadly spell, raises his shield or two handed sword and screams his god's name. And with a bright flash the spell fizzles away, the god has rewarded the examplar faith of his disciple, protecting him from certain death. The cleric has made a save vs spells.
An arch-mage immediately recognises the spell as it is, knows intricate patterns that shape its magical energies. He quickly draws a magical sigil on the air that counters the magical energy and unravels it. He was fast and skilled enough and the ray fizzles away as it reaches the mage. The mage has made a save vs spells.
The spell hits a raging barbarian right on the chest. He barely notices it, and the spell fails to rip his body apart. He is just THAT tough.
A commoner barely knows what is happening. He sees a green flash of light heading towards him and thinks 'ooh, pretty!' And in the blink of an eye all that remains from him is a rancid pile of dust, blowing away in the wind.
3.5e however is pretty obvious, as @ZanathKariashi above said.
Save vs Fireball/Lightning bolt - You dodge half of the effect (or all if you have uncanny dodge? or you manage to cover yourself, duh?)
Save vs any mind affecting spell, ala hold person or phantasmal killer? You resist it, mental fortitude, force of will.
Save vs spell which forces you to roll constitution? See above, but just physical toughness instead.
PS. I heavily disagree with what @lunar above wrote. Over epic defenses and all that.
What? Please come again? At what point did I-.. by the gods! I give up.
I were merely agreeing with a few posters, and bluntly saying that the AD&D rules make no sense in regards to saves. At least I don't believe they are explained to any degree, but are left to the.. players/GM?
That outta the blue blast at Sily was totally uncalled for!
That's some chaotic neutral shit right there lol
Original Dungeons & Dragons evolved from a fantasy supplement to the Chainmail wargame rules. The list of saving throws were basically an enumeration of all of the perils you could face in the game that offered a chance to avoid or minimize the effect. Perils with the same chance of saving were grouped together in order to keep the matrix small enough, not because they were necessarily logically related.
As D&D evolved into a more free-form role playing game, other situations arose, and the existing saving throw categories were "borrowed" for different purposes. For example, save versus wands was often used to determine if the character dodged a missile from a trap, on the logic that save versus wands represented the chance of dodging the projectile from a magic wand. (Which it sometimes did and sometimes didn't). These carried through into B/X D&D, BECMI D&D and AD&D, which in turn carried over to 2nd Edition AD&D, which was meant to be mostly compatible with 1st edition. Third edition threw all of that away, along with many other elements of D&D that the designers decided were confusing, dated or awkward, and replaced with a more principles-based system of saves.
Note that none of these are implemented. They're actually in the game files, they simply aren't used.
3rd merely condensed the categories into 3 (Relexive, fortitude, or will), based on which type of save made the most sense.
Reflex save vs Traps and Spells being completely different categories are 2 that come to mind.
The uncanny dodge feats (every 2 barbarian levels or every 3 rogue levels) provided additional reflex saves vs traps that required a reflex roll.
The skill spell craft would confer a +1 save vs spells for every 5 points in Spell craft as a passive bonus.