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Romance

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  • KukarachaKukaracha Member Posts: 256
    Maciak87 said:

    And I would recently would not like Baldur's Gate to turn into a sausage fest, like Dragon Age did, especially since the Forgotten Realms setting does not, in a any way, reinforce such measures.

    If you're referring to the medieval setting, well, gay relationships did occur back then, and while they weren't as open as today, they were quite present in some cultures (as a reminder, the Middle Ages are not restricted to the western European sphere). Religion did hinder such tendencies, but seeing that christianism, judaism and islam don't exist in Faerun...

    If you're more simply directly speaking about the Sword Coast, then I believe we don't have any information on the subject.

    Now, I still believe that an additional homosexual romance possibility would be redundant and would also draw too much focus on itself, when our attention should remain on the original content.
    Companies like Bioware try to show their openess by exploring homosexual romances and other similar themes nowadays, and there's no need to do that for a game that was released 14 years ago.

    seekaTH0R
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I'm about to start reading this thread.

    Don't be surprised if certain posts are suddenly deleted.
    FillaFillasonMornmagorseekaSirBuliwyf
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    @Mornmagor
    you are pretty hard here, pretty;)
  • RazorRazor Member Posts: 436
    @NeoDragon My source?... 25 years of gaming and common sense. Have you been at lan parties? how many girls did you see there?
  • RaggieRaggie Member Posts: 23
    Speaking of Wikipedia, even this source gives a lot of different numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States

    Different studies give different numbers on the amount of homosexuals, in around 1%-40%. You just quoted the smallest possible number.

    Why does any of this matter, anyway? BG is a fictional entertainment product in a fantasy land. Bioware games have had a lot of bi characters for entertainment purposes, that is all. Making a LI available for both genders is an easy way to increase the number of Lis available for the player in a single playthrough. Not only gay people enjoy them, but also lots of straight people. And since all romances are optional anyway, why would you even object?! You don't like them, fine. Let the rest of us enjoy them.
    Wolfheartseekablupoejjafers
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160

    @Mornmagor
    you are pretty hard here, pretty;)

    Maybe, i apologise.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    I dont want it pretty;) clear?!
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    I'm going to assume i understood :P

    So clear :p
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    a
    Maciak87 said:

    Raggie said:

    Speaking of Wikipedia, even this source gives a lot of different numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States

    Different studies give different numbers on the amount of homosexuals, in around 1%-40%. You just quoted the smallest possible number.

    Why does any of this matter, anyway? BG is a fictional entertainment product in a fantasy land. Bioware games have had a lot of bi characters for entertainment purposes, that is all. Making a LI available for both genders is an easy way to increase the number of Lis available for the player in a single playthrough. Not only gay people enjoy them, but also lots of straight people. And since all romances are optional anyway, why would you even object?! You don't like them, fine. Let the rest of us enjoy them.

    Please read my previous comment on the Forgotten Realms setting lacking any references to homosexuality. It just isn't there.
    Dragon Age, once again, is a setting of BioWare making, so they can implement whatever they want, no matter how...exotic. But why waste time and resources to introduce a romance for, I know, 5% of the gamers max?
    There you go with the numbers again :P Who's to say that most men don't enjoy a M/M romance? Not to mention female's who might like a M/M romance aswell :P
    seeka
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited July 2012
    Eh? They won't waste resources, just make the characters romanceable by either gender, problem solved. No one whines.

    Although i just can't imagine the Blackguard dude being gay for some reason o_O
  • FillaFillasonFillaFillason Member Posts: 110
    Maciak87 said:

    Raggie said:

    But why waste time and resources to introduce a romance for, I know, 5% of the gamers max?


    LIAR! I know for a fact that you only know 4.5% gamers max!

    Lol, this is redicules folks! Put Argue warning in the topic at least ;-P
    seekaNWN_babaYaga
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170

    Maciak87 said:

    Raggie said:

    But why waste time and resources to introduce a romance for, I know, 5% of the gamers max?


    LIAR! I know for a fact that you only know 4.5% gamers max!

    Lol, this is redicules folks! Put Argue warning in the topic at least ;-P
    Sowwy oh feline overlord *Bows*
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    Jeez, guys, you make me feel sorry about bringing the subject of wider choice in gender-relations up. I had no idea it would evolve in such a heated debate. I think it's a taboo subject, many people don't want to come out straight - eh, i mean gay of course - and just like (my speciality) people with psychiatric disabilities, the subject is too taboo and the lines too blurred (how do you count people who haven't come out yet or people who are in denial of themselves and try out the different sex to see 'if it helps'?). It's just not feasible to get exact numbers.

    I was just stating a wish for diversity, just like my wish for being able to have dates with the halflings, gnomes and dwarves in the game, and let's keep it up to the developers to decide what they'll do with it.

    One thing I don't like though, is romances being forced upon you. Like Jaheira saying 'I thought there was something more between us', when you decide you don't want to romance. It should build up slowly and be a real involvement, but if you don't want it, you should be able to do a romanceless campaign without a problem.
    seeka
  • FillaFillasonFillaFillason Member Posts: 110
    edited July 2012
    "There you go with the numbers again :P Who's to say that most men don't enjoy a M/M romance? Not to mention female's who might like a M/M romance aswell :P

    The very thought is disturbing."

    LOL! The though is VERY disturbing Wolfheart! didnt read that before now, LOL( I almost never used this term, but now I realy got an laugh!

    Well, out on the bicycle, be nice folks
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    edited July 2012
    About the difference between a real-life romance and in-game romances: it's comparing apples and oranges. An in-game romance is just an optional enhancement of a game story, a real-life romance is not an optional enhancement in something, it involves your whole life to share it with one. And there's lots of people who can't find a partner, and there's lots of people, like me, who don't want a partner. Life is difficult enough as it is, living with my own and all things I have to deal with, than to share it with someone with her own wants, wishes and her own psychiatric problems. It's enough to deal with my own. Real-life romance is just too taxing.
    Wolfheart
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited July 2012
    Maciak87 said:


    Please read my previous comment on the Forgotten Realms setting lacking any references to homosexuality. It just isn't there.

    There actually are references to same sex relationships in the realms.

    In one of Ed Greenwood's novels, Elminster had a servant that he was protecting in his tower and there were rumors in Shadowdale that they were lovers. Yes, it wasn't actually true and Elminster let the rumors continue because he didn't care / it served his purposes, but its proof that gay relationships exist in the realms.
    Nelligrand
  • RapscallionRapscallion Member Posts: 81
    edited July 2012
    Maciak87 said:


    As a sidenote on the romance topic, I would really like to see a meaningfully done threesome option, similar to the Jade Empire.

    Maciak87 said:


    The very thought is disturbing.

    Maciak87 said:


    Also, would like to see something akin to an adultery option, like sleeping with Viconia behind the back of Aerie.:P

    Teenager confirmed? The romance system isn't there for you to live out your wildest chauvinistic fantasies. You advocate threesomes (I assume M/F/F) and adultery but condemn same sex relationships? Really mature.
    seekaRunarieltrinit
  • KukarachaKukaracha Member Posts: 256
    edited July 2012
    Maciak87 said:

    I have to admit, I completely forgot about that one. Did some searching around for some actually homosexual characters. No luck yet.

    Isn't it so because this is a very specific type of literature directed towards a very specific demographic category - young heterosexual males?

    Edit : but I do agree that we could add something else. Relationships are complex and it would be interesting to have different paths. Adultery sounds good, for example.
  • RaggieRaggie Member Posts: 23
    Maciak87 said:


    Please read my previous comment on the Forgotten Realms setting lacking any references to homosexuality. It just isn't there.

    And this proves everyone is 100% straight...how, exactly?
    Maciak87 said:

    Dragon Age, once again, is a setting of BioWare making, so they can implement whatever they want, no matter how...exotic. But why waste time and resources to introduce a romance for, I know, 5% of the gamers max?

    "Exotic"... :-D

    What makes you think 5% of gamers enjoy gay romances? I'm straight as a pin, and many of my characters have been gay. I always go for female love interests if I don't like the male ones. I also know a lot of people like to play a character of the opposite gender and romance opposite gender.
    blu
  • RaggieRaggie Member Posts: 23
    There actually seems to be quite a few guys out there who say they'd be "gay for Garrus". :-D
    trinit
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Maciak87 said:

    Well, mostly because the majority are young, heterosexual males, who do not mind the occasional female on female action, but don't particularly need any tender, male loving?:/

    That's assuming its not old-timers returning to relive the glory of Baldurs Gate :P Sides, *points at earlier post* 50% are females :P .
  • RaggieRaggie Member Posts: 23
    Tanthalas said:



    There actually are references to same sex relationships in the realms.

    In one of Ed Greenwood's novels, Elminster had a servant that he was protecting in his tower and there were rumors in Shadowdale that they were lovers. Yes, it wasn't actually true and Elminster let the rumors continue because he didn't care / it served his purposes, but its proof that gay relationships exist in the realms.

    Ed Greenwood is the creator of FR, so that's pretty final to me. :-)
    poejjafers
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Maciak87 said:

    Wolfheart said:

    Maciak87 said:

    Well, mostly because the majority are young, heterosexual males, who do not mind the occasional female on female action, but don't particularly need any tender, male loving?:/

    That's assuming its not old-timers returning to relive the glory of Baldurs Gate :P Sides, *points at earlier post* 50% are females :P .
    I'll never believe that statistic.:P
    By the way, as to the gay romances in Dragon Age 2: the hetero ones for the males were so bad (a slut and an anorectic) I do not hold a grudge against those who preffered going Sodoma with Anders.
    ,,, I have to agree with you on that one,,, Isabella was bleh! Problem with Anders is that he's evil :P But he was kinda hawt,,,
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Thels said:

    So, to summarize:

    Bisexual and gay people exist in the world. Most likely at least some of them will play BGEE.

    Bisexual and/or gay people exist in Faerun, as Tanthalas pointed out.

    Do we need exact percentages or numbers? They would not accomplish anything. (Other than the fact that these numbers would probably be incorrect, due to being gay still being somewhat of a taboo.)

    In addition, there are players (myself included) that rather play a toon of the other gender, because it's more aesthetically pleasing to the eyes.

    So if same gender romances were added, it would be of interest to at least some of the users.

    For how many users would it cause problems? If we can assume the romances aren't forced upon the players, I can't see how a romance can be of inconvenience to any player that's not pursuing them.

    =====

    So, rather than trying to determine how many players would be interested in the feature, why don't we check out how many players would be annoyed by the presence of the feature.

    The only person so far in this thread who posted his clear and direct annoyance of such a feature was Maciak87.

    Well said :)
    ThelsseekaCommunard
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    I'm frankly sick of this topic so I will just say what I think:
    I have never seen a reason for excluding this roleplaying option that didn't boil down to simple bigotry. You can talk about numbers all you want but at the end of the day if you want to deny an entirely optional component that would not detract from your experience in any way then you had better have a good reason, and you just don't. If any of you can give me a reason that doesn't boil down to "gays are icky and weird" I'll give you a cookie.
    seekaLiaTabris
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    Maciak87 said:

    Gays are icky, weird...and smelly. Now give me the cookie.:P

    But, to be serious, the argument "we don't want it because we don't want it" is absolutely legitimate when you're talking about a product you're PAYING FOR.

    You must have a reason behind not wanting this entirely optional component.

    If you said that you wanted to make Valygar white I'd look at you askew, even though it's technically your right as a "paying customer" (which gay people are also, by the way)/
    seekatrinit
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,416
    Maciak87 said:

    Gays are icky, weird...and smelly. Now give me the cookie.:P

    But, to be serious, the argument "we don't want it because we don't want it" is absolutely legitimate when you're talking about a product you're PAYING FOR.

    You make that sound like you're the only one paying for it. In every topic you're debating, you're constantly demanding the game to be tailored 100% to your needs and wishes, and any or all other features to be removed, even if they are optional.

    However, I'm afraid to inform you that you will not be the single paying customer. There will be other paying customers as well, and some of these customers will be enjoying such features.

    (Apologies for the directness of my words.)
    RaggieCommunardblutrinit
  • RaggieRaggie Member Posts: 23
    Maciak87 said:


    But, to be serious, the argument "we don't want it because we don't want it" is absolutely legitimate when you're talking about a product you're PAYING FOR.

    Sure, but if you don't want to play a gay romance in the game, you don't have to even if the option is there.

    I still fail to see a problem here. That other people might play as gay characters? What?
    Communardblutrinit
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    Maciak87 said:

    Nice term - "gay people" - is it another race, like halflings? Since when a sexual orientation constitutes a "people"?

    Gay people - people who are gay. It's a pretty common term. Like short people or redheaded people. You are either ignorant of basic English or nitpicking purely to start a fight, so I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere.
    seekablutrinit
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