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Ragefast and Abela (spoilerish for those pre-BG-city)

escagirlukescagirluk Member Posts: 21
in Archive (General Discussion)
You know, I kind of wish there had been another option for Ragefast and Abela.

That my character could have chosen "Ragefast, you say you love Abela the Nymph. Abela will die if she lives in the city - but you will not die if you live in the forest! If you love her, and hope for her to love you back, why don't you move to her forest and live there, and court her like a respectable man?"

Because I'm a total romantic and I kind of want Ragefast's unrequited - and terribly mishandled by himself (wizards, no experience with how to go about romance, eh?) - love to have a possible happy ending, and not one that ends with him dead or sat in crushing anguish over never seeing her again.

After all, nothing says Abela *couldn't* fall in love with him, if Ragefast actually went about courting her properly, instead of absconding with her to put in a cage.

Comments

  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    Abela was in love with him, but there was no way for them to be together as they can't live in each other's environments. He just didn't want to accept that.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    err... your solution is a wee little bit rape-y
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    Didn't he wanted to make magic items from her or something?
  • BlackIvoryBlackIvory Member Posts: 75
    Communard said:

    Abela was in love with him, but there was no way for them to be together as they can't live in each other's environments. He just didn't want to accept that.

    I think it was mentioned she didn't really love him actually. At least there wasn't anything in the conversation to indicate she *did*, at least none I noticed. I was always under the impression he kidnapped her.

  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Necroblivion said:

    Didn't he wanted to make magic items from her or something?

    That's Ramazith.
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    BlackIvory said:

    Communard said:

    Abela was in love with him, but there was no way for them to be together as they can't live in each other's environments. He just didn't want to accept that.

    I think it was mentioned she didn't really love him actually. At least there wasn't anything in the conversation to indicate she *did*, at least none I noticed. I was always under the impression he kidnapped her.

    Ragefast: "But we were meant for each other! Thy very words had said so!"

    Abela: "In my glade, amidst the stars and moon, 'Twas beauty in that, but I cannot be confined with thee. I am not human, and this is not my home."
  • BlackIvoryBlackIvory Member Posts: 75
    Communard said:

    BlackIvory said:

    Communard said:

    Abela was in love with him, but there was no way for them to be together as they can't live in each other's environments. He just didn't want to accept that.

    I think it was mentioned she didn't really love him actually. At least there wasn't anything in the conversation to indicate she *did*, at least none I noticed. I was always under the impression he kidnapped her.

    Ragefast: "But we were meant for each other! Thy very words had said so!"

    Abela: "In my glade, amidst the stars and moon, 'Twas beauty in that, but I cannot be confined with thee. I am not human, and this is not my home."
    Weird, I remember it different, like her saying she appriciates his emotions but her not feeling the same or something like that, could they have changed it in BGEE?

    I also noticed that now if you take her to Ramazith, then save her after you kill him, she doesn't give you the lock of her hair, only if you save her without taking her to Ramazith (which makes sense to me)
  • and_then_orand_then_or Member Posts: 107
    @escagirluk I love comments like these. This is the type of conversation option that adds depth and complexity to the game.

    It's always flummoxing to not have a conversation option which approximates how you would like to handel an encounter and I always prefer a happy ending (no pun intended). Good on you for giving this quest a second thought.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Dude, he wasn't in love with her, he was just charmed by her spells. As far as I can remember, at least. To prevent him from using her body parts as reagents, iirc, which was why he originally locked her up.

    And I don't find anything even remotely romantic about the whole thing. Guy kidnaps a a woman and keeps her imprisoned even though he falls in love with her, a twisted form of "love" at that as he would rather she died than not be in his immediate surroundings. The romantic end to that story isn't "oh and she falls in love with him too and lives happily ever after with this disgusting, thoroughly corrupt bastard who sees her as nothing but his property", the romantic end is "old creep suffers a karmic fate, woman gets free to fall in love with somebody of her own choosing somewhere in the future, hopefully ending up in a not quite as disturbed relationship".
  • and_then_orand_then_or Member Posts: 107
    ooo boy, I don't know why I'm posting this but..

    @scriver You are correct. Everything you say is true. I think what OP wants is a way to show this to Ragefast and provoke him into maturing his understanding of love from an immature state of possession and domination to an enlightened state of equality, support, and sacrafice.
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    edited December 2012
    @scriver
    Nope. Ramizith was the one who wanted to cut her up. Ragefast and Abela had a fling in a forest glade, and were in love, however Ragefast could never accept that it wasn't possible for them to be together for longer than that and tried to keep her in the city, despite the negative effects it would have on her. In the "good" ending, Abela forgives Ragefast as it is in her nature to cause obsession in humans, leading to his clouded judgement and his refusal to accept reality. It's quite a tragic story, really. This is pretty clear-cut in the dialogue, I'm not sure why so many people think that he's just some evil kidnapper.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    In light of the quotes above my previous post (they were posted while I was writing mine and I didn't see them) I might be kisremembering things, yeah... Possibly confusing it with an NwN quest? I vaguely remember something about a nymph in it.
  • RajickRajick Member Posts: 207
    Yeah I gave her to the other guy to be turned into magic items then I killed him to hahahaha stupid Mage trusting Rajick like that
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Communard said:

    @scriver
    Nope. Ramizith was the one who wanted to cut her up. Ragefast and Abela had a fling in a forest glade, and were in love, however Ragefast could never accept that it wasn't possible for them to be together for longer than that and tried to keep her in the city, despite the negative effects it would have on her. In the "good" ending, Abela forgives Ragefast as it is in her nature to cause obsession in humans, leading to his clouded judgement and his refusal to accept reality. It's quite a tragic story, really. This is pretty clear-cut in the dialogue, I'm not sure why so many people think that he's just some evil kidnapper.

    Here's what Abela says if you free her:

    "It will be good to feel the grass beneath my feet once more. If you would just release this restraining collar, I will regain a measure of my talents. I thought it only ornamental when he gave it to me. Please, will you help me?"

    Ragefast carried out a premeditated kidnapping with a magical restraining collar that must have taken some time to prepare. It was not just a heat of the moment decision to stop her because he didn't want her to leave—in fact, I doubt she came willingly in the first place. The fact that he chose to use a collar speaks volumes about his character and the nature of his "love."
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I will now share what I believe is a little known fact about this quest:
    It is possible to persuade Ragefast to release the nymph and you don't have to kill him. Then both will go back to their former lives. The only problem is you have to have like max reputation and an INSANE charisma stat. 20 rep and 21 charisma probably won't be enough... I usually give Imoen Algernon's cloak and have her cast Friends giving her 24 charisma and that usually works. This is probably the "happy ending" you were looking for (certainly the happiest ending this quest has).
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Not to be insulting, my good man, but stories like that always require a thorough mythchecking, and preferably a captured picture as without one we might be led to assume said events never did occur.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    @scriver pfft if I knew how to screenshot I would go there now and show you... I'll see if i can figure it out... But I HAVE done this many times before.
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    You only need 7+ Wisdom and a neutral or better reaction score (doable with 8 rep and 12 Cha). Just keep picking the reasonable-sounding dialogue choices.
  • JarlealeJarleale Member Posts: 114
    edited December 2012
    Actually, I don't think the reaction adjustment from CHA and reputation matters. It's all about chosing the right dialogue options. Source: http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/ar0600.htm#ragefast
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    edited December 2012
    well something matters... maybe it is the wisdom thing my chars always had horrible wisdom
    by the way @Jalily why didn't you mention it before if you knew about this ending?
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    Destiny or no, she will eat my mace.
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    edited December 2012
    Tresset said:

    well something matters... maybe it is the wisdom thing my chars always had horrible wisdom
    by the way @Jalily why didn't you mention it before if you knew about this ending?

    Because the poster I was responding to knew about it already. This is the "good" ending and where the "nature to cause obsession" line comes from.

    FYI, if your character has 6 or less Wisdom, Ragefast responds to the exact same words with this:

    "I would sooner we both died here, than lose her beauty in my life! You will pay for this pain stranger! 'Twas not your place to meddle with me!"

    And then attacks you.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    ...wisdom. I never thought it would be something other than charisma. I guess that's what you get when you think linearly rather than laterally.
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    edited December 2012
    Jalily said:

    Communard said:

    @scriver
    Nope. Ramizith was the one who wanted to cut her up. Ragefast and Abela had a fling in a forest glade, and were in love, however Ragefast could never accept that it wasn't possible for them to be together for longer than that and tried to keep her in the city, despite the negative effects it would have on her. In the "good" ending, Abela forgives Ragefast as it is in her nature to cause obsession in humans, leading to his clouded judgement and his refusal to accept reality. It's quite a tragic story, really. This is pretty clear-cut in the dialogue, I'm not sure why so many people think that he's just some evil kidnapper.

    Here's what Abela says if you free her:

    "It will be good to feel the grass beneath my feet once more. If you would just release this restraining collar, I will regain a measure of my talents. I thought it only ornamental when he gave it to me. Please, will you help me?"

    Ragefast carried out a premeditated kidnapping with a magical restraining collar that must have taken some time to prepare. It was not just a heat of the moment decision to stop her because he didn't want her to leave—in fact, I doubt she came willingly in the first place. The fact that he chose to use a collar speaks volumes about his character and the nature of his "love."
    Yet she also forgives him and says that what she had with him in the forest glade was beautiful. Obviously he wasn't in the right, but people were saying that he just wanted to cut her up and got charmed, which isn't what happened at all. He fell in (apparently reciprocated) love with a creature that possesses magical otherworldly beauty that causes humans to become obsessed with them, and did something terrible because of it. If he'd done it to a random human woman then I'd agree with you, but it was a nymph. IMO he's a tragic figure, not an evil one.
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    He's another one of those blockhead mages that thinks he's always right and can do no wrong.

    Go for the eyes, Boo...
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