The Blade is one of the best kits of the game. You can check it out in gamesbanshee, but a character who is very good at melee, can cast spells and also can reach to -30 of AC at certain moments... I think it's simply the best.
I just started BG:EE as a Skald. I have no idea how good they are long-term, but I'm really enjoying it from an RP perspective. Mine is NE, and I love the image of her standing around singing dramatically while her evil deathcrew wrecks everything in sight.
What starting weapon proficiencies did you give her? I'm thinking of running a good-aligned male Skald in my second BGEE run-through, armed with axes (partly for Azuredge in BG2...) and crossbows, possibly halberds instead of axes, though (for Chesley Crusher in BGEE and there are quite a few decent ones in BG2).
What starting weapon proficiencies did you give her? I'm thinking of running a good-aligned male Skald in my second BGEE run-through, armed with axes (partly for Azuredge in BG2...) and crossbows, possibly halberds instead of axes, though (for Chesley Crusher in BGEE and there are quite a few decent ones in BG2).
I've only just started, but I gave her longsword and single-weapon style, mainly because I wanted a break from dual-wielding (which has always been my poison of choice), but I still love me some longswords (and want her to have Blackrazor at the end of BG2).
I'm aiming for a final party of Dorn, Kagain, Shar-Teel (dualed to Thief), Xzar (dualed to Cleric), and Edwin. I thinks it will be funny if nothing else.
What starting weapon proficiencies did you give her? I'm thinking of running a good-aligned male Skald in my second BGEE run-through, armed with axes (partly for Azuredge in BG2...) and crossbows, possibly halberds instead of axes, though (for Chesley Crusher in BGEE and there are quite a few decent ones in BG2).
I've only just started, but I gave her longsword and single-weapon style, mainly because I wanted a break from dual-wielding (which has always been my poison of choice), but I still love me some longswords (and want her to have Blackrazor at the end of BG2).
I'm aiming for a final party of Dorn, Kagain, Shar-Teel (dualed to Thief), Xzar (dualed to Cleric), and Edwin. I thinks it will be funny if nothing else.
Sounds reasonable, though you might need another thief early on until Shar-Teel gets good enough.
I'm currently running CHARNAME (female neutral evil elf fighter/mage), Dorn, Monty, Viconia, Imoen (*not* dualed) and Edwin and am having lots of fun :-).
I currently have Imoen on my team, though she is dead at the moment so I need to get her rezzed, as well as Monty, which is as much Thief as I need at the moment XD, but yeah, I am somewhat bothered by the potential for no-competent-thief for a while... I might have to re-jig my plots.
I currently have Imoen on my team, though she is dead at the moment so I need to get her rezzed, as well as Monty, which is as much Thief as I need at the moment XD, but yeah, I am somewhat bothered by the potential for no-competent-thief for a while... I might have to re-jig my plots.
I often run two thieves, as in my current game, where I have Monty focused on stealth (and later pick pockets) for scouting (evil doesn't get a ranger and I find being able to scout essential) and backstabs, with Imoen on Find Trap and Open Locks (then later Set Traps...).
I currently have Imoen on my team, though she is dead at the moment so I need to get her rezzed, as well as Monty, which is as much Thief as I need at the moment XD, but yeah, I am somewhat bothered by the potential for no-competent-thief for a while... I might have to re-jig my plots.
I often run two thieves, as in my current game, where I have Monty focused on stealth (and later pick pockets) for scouting (evil doesn't get a ranger and I find being able to scout essential) and backstabs, with Imoen on Find Trap and Open Locks (then later Set Traps...).
I so want an evil Ranger kit. We have an evil Paladin kit now, surely an evil Ranger kit is on the cards! Surely!
Personally, I'd be happy if they just re-jigged Stalker to not need to be good. It sounds at best Neutral.
I currently have Imoen on my team, though she is dead at the moment so I need to get her rezzed, as well as Monty, which is as much Thief as I need at the moment XD, but yeah, I am somewhat bothered by the potential for no-competent-thief for a while... I might have to re-jig my plots.
I often run two thieves, as in my current game, where I have Monty focused on stealth (and later pick pockets) for scouting (evil doesn't get a ranger and I find being able to scout essential) and backstabs, with Imoen on Find Trap and Open Locks (then later Set Traps...).
I so want an evil Ranger kit. We have an evil Paladin kit now, surely an evil Ranger kit is on the cards! Surely!
Personally, I'd be happy if they just re-jigged Stalker to not need to be good. It sounds at best Neutral.
Perhaps, though I see rangers as "guardians of nature", though perhaps not as much as druids. I think they should be allowed to be neutral at most.
Sadly, till 3rd edition, Rangers were good only, cause the creators were Aragorn fanboys. Thankfully, once WotC got control, in one of their few good decisions decided Aragorn could go eat #%$^, and thus rangers were finally allowed to be as they should've been. Martial agents and trackers for nature deities of entire alignment spectrum.
The Blade is one of the best kits of the game. You can check it out in gamesbanshee, but a character who is very good at melee, can cast spells and also can reach to -30 of AC at certain moments... I think it's simply the best.
Get a bard with this disadvantage: -Bard song doesn't get better with levels?????????? Why is the blade a bard??? I don't know, I just don't see the point of bards. But I guess they would be fun from a role-playing perspective for some people.
The Blade is one of the best kits of the game. You can check it out in gamesbanshee, but a character who is very good at melee, can cast spells and also can reach to -30 of AC at certain moments... I think it's simply the best.
Get a bard with this disadvantage: -Bard song doesn't get better with levels?????????? Why is the blade a bard??? I don't know, I just don't see the point of bards. But I guess they would be fun from a role-playing perspective for some people.
I recently found out that bard song does in fact "linger" slightly and it is possible to get a ranged shot off, or even a quick spell and then resume singing before the bard song dissipates - this is *excellent* for a Skald! See: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/222494#Comment_222494
Get a bard with this disadvantage: -Bard song doesn't get better with levels?????????? Why is the blade a bard??? I don't know, I just don't see the point of bards. But I guess they would be fun from a role-playing perspective for some people.
Blade is ofensive fight oriented bard. At this point he has no need this song to use. (but he still can use HLA song thats better than basic one anyway)
And besides roleplaying aspects, bards have pick pocket ability, that allow ur thief to put no points there, can cast arcane spells that helps ur wizards to concentrate at the damage dealing; or bards can play a role of support mage that is good too. Also they re leveling up extremely fast compare to multi and most of single class characters.
Well...technically a bard should be your damage dealer...since until 20 when spells cap out (which even then the bard will reach first by a fair margin) the bard's spells will hit harder. Leaving your mage free to buff/debuff. Now obviously a blade will handle his own buffs, since the best ones are self cast only, but a Skald can easily be a spell damage platform between song buffs.
You should be happy about the blade...the PnP version's restriction is that he can't use wands or cast spells from scrolls (he can still learn spells from them though)...and his offensive spin is just a one shot, on hit Fear, and he can't sing AT ALL. His only combat advantage is getting the equivalent penalty reduction of maxed Two-weapon style for free at creation (but still has to spend the points if he wants to unlock same-size dual-wielding). On the other hand they also get the ability to make Called shots with hurled weapons, with reduced thac0 penalties as their lvl increases. And their Defensive spin has a chance to damage anyone attempting to strike them in melee, but ends if they're successfully hit. And his weapon display ability buffs allies/debuffs enemies (+1/-1 thac0) for 1 round/level, but requires a full round to cast.
Contrast with the PnP Skald, who gets +1 hit/damage, and can sing...WHILE FIGHTING (though their songs end once they take damage, and can only be attempted once per battle). They can also wear up to regular plate and use shields without any extra penalty (still can't cast spells in armor though). Though his song works differently. It has 6 possible effects, some which increase based on level, of which he can choose one to be in effect for each battle song...and every 3 levels can add an additional effect, eventually having all of them at once. On the other hand....they're completely illiterate (they come from an culture with Oral Traditions rather then writing), and have to spend several non-combat proficiencies to learn to read before they can cast from scrolls or learn spells, and their caster level is always 1 level behind. But once they specialize in Two Weapon style, they're actually better in direct combat then a blade is.
In a sense they're reversed in PnP from the way they are in BG. The Blade is all about support, by intimidating and hindering enemies and bolstering allies, while the Skald is a melee powerhouse, who can also support allies, but is limited to one chance per battle to do so.
And the jester...haha...oh god..the jester is nice. Instead of a confusion, his song is a taunt...the enemies that fail the save (that starts at -1 and gets an additional -1 per 3 levels), MUST drop everything they're doing and attempt to kill the jester, completely ignoring the battle around them, until they successfully kill him, or 1 round after he stops taunting. (I assume Bioware took the fact it says that breaking their ranks via the taunt would throw their forces into confusion to mean it causes confusion
He also gets a constant +1 luck bonus, +1 AC, and +5 to thief skills. And a bonus vs charm/enchantment equal to his Jester level. On the other hand he can't wear armor heavier then Studded leather, except Elven Chain, and is limited to light weapons or quarterstaff.
Starting BG1 the first thing wou fight is 5 rats or 2 lvl 1 thiefs
Starting BG2:SoA the first thing you fight is goblins or mephits
Starting BG2:ToB the first thing you fight is a bard
You do realize your 'proof' doesn't proof anything, don't you, as it's an invalid induction?
The actual reason I wanted to pop in this thread, is mentioning one point not mentioned yet, though only valid if you use BG2Tweaks and have 'Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters' installed: because of far faster levelling than a Fighter/Mage, Bard's are far more effective with spells that require a save. A Blade is good for damage-dealing, but also can cast for instance Chaos far more effectively than a Mage or Fighter/Mage. With F/M's, I almost completely focus on buffs, as they level so slowly.
Off-topic: it really is a hindrance the forum software omits the date for posts from the previous calendar-month. Is 'december' just the day before yesterday, or is Aesgarath a troll with necromancing abilities, raising from the dead a topic that's a month old?
And I did something bad, I realize, I fed a troll. Should have stuck to feeding dog meat to Umber Hulks instead.
Starting BG1 the first thing wou fight is 5 rats or 2 lvl 1 thiefs
Starting BG2:SoA the first thing you fight is goblins or mephits
Starting BG2:ToB the first thing you fight is a bard
You do realize your 'proof' doesn't proof anything, don't you, as it's an invalid induction?
He obviously means that the developers want the first battle to be with the easiest foes possible. David Gaider on his improved mod wrote: "we were forced to make the battle much, much easier (since people could potentially meet her with a single, newly-created sorcerer.. And since the fight was unavoidable, those who couldn't get past it would be quite frustrated."
I guess the developers felt that there is nothing easier to kill than a bard.
He obviously means that the developers want the first battle to be with the easiest foes possible. David Gaider on his improved mod wrote: "we were forced to make the battle much, much easier (since people could potentially meet her with a single, newly-created sorcerer.. And since the fight was unavoidable, those who couldn't get past it would be quite frustrated."
I guess the developers felt that there is nothing easier to kill than a bard.
Thanks for clarification. With extra info, it makes it a more valid argument. Still, I am surprised at how easy it is to kill an enemy Bard, compared to their usefullness in charname's party. I haven't played TOB yet, but there's a Bard in Baldur's Gate, in a house next to the temple of Helm, that's quite easy to kill and my impression of the fight was, the AI doesn't handle him very well, as a Bard could be far more effective than that. With the micromanagement a Bard takes to be effective, maybe the computer doesn't play him less effective than a player would?
I see confusion rising in the thread though, if we start talking about the effectiveness of an unkitted bard in a topic about Blade or Skald. All kitted bards are much more effective than plain bards, each in their own way.
What is this bard you're talking about? Illesara is a Fighter/Mage. (hell you can check them all in SK...hmm..except for that odd one out that is a Ranger). The easier or harder thing just toned down her helpers based on how many people you had...and they weren't particularly tough. The Improved Illesara mod just makes her helpers a genuine threat in addition to bringing the maximum number.
By your logic then, a F/M is actually the least dangerous thing they could've thrown at you.
Off-topic: it really is a hindrance the forum software omits the date for posts from the previous calendar-month. Is 'december' just the day before yesterday, or is Aesgarath a troll with necromancing abilities, raising from the dead a topic that's a month old?
If you hover you mouse over December then it will popup the exact time and date of posting
On topic, Skalds song is decent in BG1 and early SOA if you are running a fighter heavy party- decent bonuses that will help them chunk. OTOH Blade spins are good to have forever.
Oh, and Illasera is a multiclass F/M, not a Bard, and her weakness is due to AI scripting more than anything else- even the vanilla version is scary with a good script!
What is this bard you're talking about? Illesara is a Fighter/Mage. (hell you can check them all in SK...hmm..except for that odd one out that is a Ranger). The easier or harder thing just toned down her helpers based on how many people you had...and they weren't particularly tough. The Improved Illesara mod just makes her helpers a genuine threat in addition to bringing the maximum number.
By your logic then, a F/M is actually the least dangerous thing they could've thrown at you.
Not my logic. I didn't make the game.
David Gaider turns her into an archer. " She's a ranger/archer now, which was her original concept before we were forced to make the battle much, much easier"
I see confusion rising in the thread though, if we start talking about the effectiveness of an unkitted bard in a topic about Blade or Skald. All kitted bards are much more effective than plain bards, each in their own way.
Maybe we should be discussing about kit/non kit balance then? Maybe we need a new topic...
I see confusion rising in the thread though, if we start talking about the effectiveness of an unkitted bard in a topic about Blade or Skald. All kitted bards are much more effective than plain bards, each in their own way.
Maybe we should be discussing about kit/non kit balance then? Maybe we need a new topic...
It's pretty close....A song-twisting Skald gives a blade a run for their money until epic levels. Which arguably wasn't very well thought out, oh hey, once you hit lvl 24, lets remove basically all your disadvantages while all the other bards get the shaft. At low str a skald is better, at high strength, the blade has a slight advantage due to the extra attack (but on the other hand, can only do so for as long as they have OS available, while the Skald can keep trucking 24/7).
Rogue-Rebalancing does a nice job of largely correcting Bioware's hack-job implementation of rogues and Bards in general, and should really have been included as part of the game's general fixes, but overall it's very much needed buff to class that bioware seemed determined to F over as much as they could without outright breaking the class completely (since otherwise the PnP accurate bards would blow away their ridiculously overpowered fighter kits like they were nothing (save the wizard slayer..they are legitimately getting screwed since they're MUCH weaker then their PnP version, while the Kensai and Berserker are MUCH stronger...especially the berserker who barely resembles his PnP incarnation and has no downside at all for it's power)
And of course the kits are more powerful. The Bard doesn't even work correctly in the first place, nor do all the kits have their proper restrictions, and some like the blade, as mentioned a few posts above, bare little resemblance to what they should be.
I'm aiming for a final party of Dorn, Kagain, Shar-Teel (dualed to Thief), Xzar (dualed to Cleric), and Edwin. I thinks it will be funny if nothing else.
That is one moody party lol. If you had Tiax join that crew, they would probably kill him.
Comments
I'm aiming for a final party of Dorn, Kagain, Shar-Teel (dualed to Thief), Xzar (dualed to Cleric), and Edwin. I thinks it will be funny if nothing else.
I'm currently running CHARNAME (female neutral evil elf fighter/mage), Dorn, Monty, Viconia, Imoen (*not* dualed) and Edwin and am having lots of fun :-).
Personally, I'd be happy if they just re-jigged Stalker to not need to be good. It sounds at best Neutral.
Why is the blade a bard???
I don't know, I just don't see the point of bards. But I guess they would be fun from a role-playing perspective for some people.
If you're looking for more effective character in BGEE, Skald.
At this point he has no need this song to use. (but he still can use HLA song thats better than basic one anyway)
And besides roleplaying aspects, bards have pick pocket ability, that allow ur thief to put no points there, can cast arcane spells that helps ur wizards to concentrate at the damage dealing; or bards can play a role of support mage that is good too. Also they re leveling up extremely fast compare to multi and most of single class characters.
You should be happy about the blade...the PnP version's restriction is that he can't use wands or cast spells from scrolls (he can still learn spells from them though)...and his offensive spin is just a one shot, on hit Fear, and he can't sing AT ALL. His only combat advantage is getting the equivalent penalty reduction of maxed Two-weapon style for free at creation (but still has to spend the points if he wants to unlock same-size dual-wielding). On the other hand they also get the ability to make Called shots with hurled weapons, with reduced thac0 penalties as their lvl increases. And their Defensive spin has a chance to damage anyone attempting to strike them in melee, but ends if they're successfully hit. And his weapon display ability buffs allies/debuffs enemies (+1/-1 thac0) for 1 round/level, but requires a full round to cast.
Contrast with the PnP Skald, who gets +1 hit/damage, and can sing...WHILE FIGHTING (though their songs end once they take damage, and can only be attempted once per battle). They can also wear up to regular plate and use shields without any extra penalty (still can't cast spells in armor though). Though his song works differently. It has 6 possible effects, some which increase based on level, of which he can choose one to be in effect for each battle song...and every 3 levels can add an additional effect, eventually having all of them at once. On the other hand....they're completely illiterate (they come from an culture with Oral Traditions rather then writing), and have to spend several non-combat proficiencies to learn to read before they can cast from scrolls or learn spells, and their caster level is always 1 level behind. But once they specialize in Two Weapon style, they're actually better in direct combat then a blade is.
In a sense they're reversed in PnP from the way they are in BG. The Blade is all about support, by intimidating and hindering enemies and bolstering allies, while the Skald is a melee powerhouse, who can also support allies, but is limited to one chance per battle to do so.
And the jester...haha...oh god..the jester is nice. Instead of a confusion, his song is a taunt...the enemies that fail the save (that starts at -1 and gets an additional -1 per 3 levels), MUST drop everything they're doing and attempt to kill the jester, completely ignoring the battle around them, until they successfully kill him, or 1 round after he stops taunting. (I assume Bioware took the fact it says that breaking their ranks via the taunt would throw their forces into confusion to mean it causes confusion
He also gets a constant +1 luck bonus, +1 AC, and +5 to thief skills. And a bonus vs charm/enchantment equal to his Jester level. On the other hand he can't wear armor heavier then Studded leather, except Elven Chain, and is limited to light weapons or quarterstaff.
On topic, i could write pages on how much bards suck, particularly on early, mid (and late) game but i have neither the time nor the inclination.
Starting BG1 the first thing wou fight is 5 rats or 2 lvl 1 thiefs
Starting BG2:SoA the first thing you fight is goblins or mephits
Starting BG2:ToB the first thing you fight is a bard
The actual reason I wanted to pop in this thread, is mentioning one point not mentioned yet, though only valid if you use BG2Tweaks and have 'Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters' installed: because of far faster levelling than a Fighter/Mage, Bard's are far more effective with spells that require a save. A Blade is good for damage-dealing, but also can cast for instance Chaos far more effectively than a Mage or Fighter/Mage. With F/M's, I almost completely focus on buffs, as they level so slowly.
And I did something bad, I realize, I fed a troll. Should have stuck to feeding dog meat to Umber Hulks instead.
I guess the developers felt that there is nothing easier to kill than a bard.
I see confusion rising in the thread though, if we start talking about the effectiveness of an unkitted bard in a topic about Blade or Skald. All kitted bards are much more effective than plain bards, each in their own way.
By your logic then, a F/M is actually the least dangerous thing they could've thrown at you.
On topic, Skalds song is decent in BG1 and early SOA if you are running a fighter heavy party- decent bonuses that will help them chunk. OTOH Blade spins are good to have forever.
Oh, and Illasera is a multiclass F/M, not a Bard, and her weakness is due to AI scripting more than anything else- even the vanilla version is scary with a good script!
David Gaider turns her into an archer. " She's a ranger/archer now, which was her original concept before we were forced to make the battle much, much easier"
Rogue-Rebalancing does a nice job of largely correcting Bioware's hack-job implementation of rogues and Bards in general, and should really have been included as part of the game's general fixes, but overall it's very much needed buff to class that bioware seemed determined to F over as much as they could without outright breaking the class completely (since otherwise the PnP accurate bards would blow away their ridiculously overpowered fighter kits like they were nothing (save the wizard slayer..they are legitimately getting screwed since they're MUCH weaker then their PnP version, while the Kensai and Berserker are MUCH stronger...especially the berserker who barely resembles his PnP incarnation and has no downside at all for it's power)
And of course the kits are more powerful. The Bard doesn't even work correctly in the first place, nor do all the kits have their proper restrictions, and some like the blade, as mentioned a few posts above, bare little resemblance to what they should be.