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How much open locks and find traps skill do you need?

WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
in Archive (General Discussion)
Being a powergamer I wouldn't want to waste skill points where I don't need them. How many skill points do you need to open every lock and find/disarm every trap in BG:EE? I would also want to know how much approximately you need to open like 90% of them as I can always use knock spell and potions that increase thieving skills to take care of the most difficult ones. I also don't want to set off traps that can be disarmed (so no mirror image etc will do).

I have no idea what skill levels my thief had the last time I played BG1 as it was years ago.

I would really appreciate some help.
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Comments

  • baaddarebaaddare Member Posts: 145
    edited January 2013
    well if you have a mage with knock you can get by with a very low lock pick jut depends how many times you want to use knock if not you need 100. As for traps if you want to do dulags tower and actually disarm the traps you need 100 in traps.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    baaddare said:

    well if you have a mage with knock you can get by with a very low lock pick jut depends how many times you want to use knock if not you need 100. As for traps if you want to do dulags tower and actually disarm the traps you need 100 in traps.

    I'll probably try coping with a low lock pick and using knock spell. I don't think all the traps in Durlag's need 100 skill. I mean if there are only a handful, a 70-80 find traps should do with a punch of potions? Or is the place filled with traps that need ~100 skill?
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    edited January 2013
    @Wilbur

    This place is frigging filled with dangerous traps. If you don't detect them fast enough, they can annihilate your whole party in a few seconds.

    Better having 100 in detect / disarm traps, than having to drink thousands of potions IMHO.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Aasimar069 said:

    @Wilbur

    This place is frigging filled with dangerous traps. If you don't detect them fast enough, they can annihilate your whole party in a few seconds.

    Better having 100 in detect / disarm traps, than having to drink thousands of potions IMHO.

    If that is the case then 100 in find traps sounds what it takes. Thanks.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    @Wilbur

    Best solution, if you plan to have two characters with thief skills is to specialize them.

    For instance, Imoen is set to 100% detect traps before dualing to mage.
    Coran gets the open locks + move silently/hide in shadows proficiencies.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Aasimar069 said:

    @Wilbur

    Best solution, if you plan to have two characters with thief skills is to specialize them.

    For instance, Imoen is set to 100% detect traps before dualing to mage.
    Coran gets the open locks + move silently/hide in shadows proficiencies.

    That is exactly what I was thinking about myself :)

    I'll dual Imoen at level 6 so she'll still be able to cast level 5 mage spells.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    edited January 2013
    @Wilbur, you can dual her at 5 if you reached 100% detect traps.

    This will allow her to regain her thief levels faster, because dualing at 6 (I have done this in my last playthrough) would mean that she'll only get her thief level at the near end of the game (you'll really have to postpone your Durlag tower's exploration until she's able to detect them again).
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Aasimar069 said:

    @Wilbur, you can dual her at 5 if you reached 100% detect traps.

    This will allow her to regain her thief levels faster, because dualing at 6 (I have done this in my last playthrough) would mean that she'll only get her thief level at the near end of the game (you'll really have to postpone your Durlag tower's exploration until she's able to detect them again).

    That's a very good point. There are no real benefits being a level 6 thief compared to level 5 so I think I will dual her at level 5 after all. Thank you :)
  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    You don't need 100 in traps. 90 is enough to detect, if not necessarily disarm, all the traps in Durlag's, and even less might be workable (90 is what I typically use). With 90, I believe there will be only two (perhaps three) traps you need to quaff a potion to disarm, and you will still detect them. One of the traps is fairly harmless.


    Durlag's Altar trap with Tome of Wisdom - Dire Charm


    The other I recall I've never actually tripped, so I don't know what it does, though it's on the first level of Durlag's dungeon.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    basically, get find traps up to 80%, drink potion of perception (guy outside Durlag's Tower sells 5) if it doesn't get the job done, it lasts for a long time anyway.

    outside of Durlag's Tower, I don't think I've ran into any trap requiring more than 70-80 points.
  • vekkthvekkth Member Posts: 25
    DinsdalePiranha said:

    basically, get find traps up to 80%, drink potion of perception

    this. no, really.

  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    @Deucetipher @DinsdalePiranha

    Ok, so basically you can manage Durlag's with 80 find traps if you use a couple of potions, but with a 100 skill you shouldn't need potions at all.
  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    Correct.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    And if you don't want to use spell slots on Knocking, a 60 in Open Locks is all you really need. There's an absurd abundance of Master Thievery potions available once you've gotten to Baldur's Gate, and hardly any need for over 60 in lockpocking before that unless you're attempting TotSC content unusually early. Same goes for Pickpocketing. I finished the game with roughly 30 extra Master Thievery potions.

    I also wound up at roughly 90 Trap Disarm skill, and had no problem with Durlag's Tower. This seems like a good level to get to, since you'll be able to detect everything and drink a potion to disarm the stuff that 90 isn't good enough for. If you only go to 80 and don't have metagame knowledge of the traps you'll be encountering, you could possibly run out of Perception potions unless you liberally reload.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    I think I'll go with 90 disarm traps and drink potions when necessary. I like having some use for those potions too since I don't really use pick pocketing with a good party.
  • JTMJTM Member Posts: 70
    Also, it's good to be aware of the negative effects of armor upon thieving skills.

    In trap ridden areas, I like to cast invisibility on my thief. Turn off her AI. No armor, just a cloak of non-detection. Then just run through everything ahead, detecting and disarming all the traps I can...
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  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    JTM said:

    Also, it's good to be aware of the negative effects of armor upon thieving skills.

    In trap ridden areas, I like to cast invisibility on my thief. Turn off her AI. No armor, just a cloak of non-detection. Then just run through everything ahead, detecting and disarming all the traps I can...

    actually, why don't you just use the shield amulet? sets AC to 4, can be worn with protective items, no maluses to thieving skills, and you can easily fight in it. it's the perfect item for these kind of situations.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    JTM said:

    Also, it's good to be aware of the negative effects of armor upon thieving skills.

    In trap ridden areas, I like to cast invisibility on my thief. Turn off her AI. No armor, just a cloak of non-detection. Then just run through everything ahead, detecting and disarming all the traps I can...

    This is an interesting approach. I might try that myself.

    Also having a find traps skill of 100 and wearing a studded leather (-10) would give me 90 find traps and I wouldn't really have to remove the armor. Hmm..
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Wilbur said:

    JTM said:

    Also, it's good to be aware of the negative effects of armor upon thieving skills.

    In trap ridden areas, I like to cast invisibility on my thief. Turn off her AI. No armor, just a cloak of non-detection. Then just run through everything ahead, detecting and disarming all the traps I can...

    This is an interesting approach. I might try that myself.

    Also having a find traps skill of 100 and wearing a studded leather (-10) would give me 90 find traps and I wouldn't really have to remove the armor. Hmm..
    Unless you plan to have only one character with thief abilities, you should have enough points to boost most of the useful thief stats.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Aasimar069 said:

    Wilbur said:

    JTM said:

    Also, it's good to be aware of the negative effects of armor upon thieving skills.

    In trap ridden areas, I like to cast invisibility on my thief. Turn off her AI. No armor, just a cloak of non-detection. Then just run through everything ahead, detecting and disarming all the traps I can...

    This is an interesting approach. I might try that myself.

    Also having a find traps skill of 100 and wearing a studded leather (-10) would give me 90 find traps and I wouldn't really have to remove the armor. Hmm..
    Unless you plan to have only one character with thief abilities, you should have enough points to boost most of the useful thief stats.
    Studded Leather doesn't give a penalty to thieving skills in BGEE (unless you've modded the game), only the +2 "Rugged Leathers", Hide Armour and Elven Chain does for thieves.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW I currenty have my Level 7 Imoen (I'm not going to dual her, am going set-traps instead and x4 backstabs with Edwin casting invisibility on her, using the dagger of venom) with 100 points in Find Traps and 90 in Open Locks - is this too much (I could re-assign some points into Set Traps with Shadowkeeper, if so), or will this save alot of Potions of Mastery Thievery?
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Oxford_Guy said:

    BTW I currenty have my Level 7 Imoen (I'm not going to dual her, am going set-traps instead and x4 backstabs with Edwin casting invisibility on her, using the dagger of venom) with 100 points in Find Traps and 90 in Open Locks - is this too much (I could re-assign some points into Set Traps with Shadowkeeper, if so), or will this save alot of Potions of Mastery Thievery?

    I mentioned earlier in the thread that I found there to be an abundance of Master Thievery potions. And it's not like there's a shortage of gold later in the game. I don't see much point in getting more than 60 in Open Locks, so you might as well give her some more set-traps by my reasoning.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    As far as I know, the most difficult lock seems to be located at Entar Silvershield's estate. Locked with difficulty of 95 are Cloak of Protection +1 and 308 gold.

    For trap, the most difficult one is located in Thieves' Guild with both detection and removal difficulty of 100. The next one seems located at Durlag's Dungeon level 5 with removal difficulty of 95 (but with detection difficult of 15).

    Most other traps and locks have difficulty between 40-80.

    So... max open lock of 95 and detect trap of 100 if you wish to absolutely open any lock and disarm any trap. If you want to spend thieving skills elsewhere, keeping them both at 60 and using potion of master thievery will get you everywhere. Getting both skills to 80 will drastically reduce need of the potion except for a few locks and traps.

    Hope this helps.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    Just wondering, does trap removal rely on open lock skill or detect trap skill?
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    @leeho730: find traps. iirc it's even written in the description, I'm not sure.

    btw where/how did you find the values for the traps/locks?
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    @leeho730

    At character generation in the find traps skill description it says "A character uses this ability to find and disarm small traps, pit traps and alarms. This ability does not find large mechanical traps."
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    Thanks guys!

    I used NI and browsed through a few maps (like Thieves' guild, Silvershield's home, TOSC area, Chapter 7 area etc) that I believe would have difficult locks/traps. Map files (ARE) contain info regarding containers and traps.
  • ZarakinthishZarakinthish Member Posts: 214
    The altar in the Durlag's Tower chapel (where the Tome of Understanding is) has a trap with 90 to detect and 100 to disarm. The odd thing is that even with a 100 skill I've yet to be able to disarm it.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    Thanks for the info!

    Hmmm... Sounds like the skill value needs to be more than difficulty...
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