Druid is probably the most powerful caster in BG1 due to: - scimitars - call lightning and the outdoor setting - call woodland being (mass cure at level 7???? Not to mention effective CC) - insect plague (best spell in BG1 available IMO)
My Charname Berserker (6)/Druid (10) with 3 level 5 spells was an absolute beast and took down sarevok in very, very short order. It's kind of wrong that this build can get GM Scimitars but a pure fighter can't.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
Druid is already overpowered. If you don't think so then you aren't doing it right
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
Druid is already overpowered. If you don't think so then you aren't doing it right
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
Druid is already overpowered. If you don't think so then you aren't doing it right
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
Power doesn't necessarily make them interesting to play. I took Faldorn along with me in my most recent BGEE run, and she was quite effective... I just found her to be boring to have in the party. Her effectiveness hinged on a small handful of very potent spells, and there were entire spell levels that I filled with nothing but filler and never used.
The IWD spell list that I posted aspects of would give druids a nice boost to control and offensive magic, which would give them all sorts of tricks to pull in a variety of situations. Raw power level has nothing to do with it.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
Druid is already overpowered. If you don't think so then you aren't doing it right
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
Power doesn't necessarily make them interesting to play. I took Faldorn along with me in my most recent BGEE run, and she was quite effective... I just found her to be boring to have in the party. Her effectiveness hinged on a small handful of very potent spells, and there were entire spell levels that I filled with nothing but filler and never used.
The IWD spell list that I posted aspects of would give druids a nice boost to control and offensive magic, which would give them all sorts of tricks to pull in a variety of situations. Raw power level has nothing to do with it.
Edit: Holy crap, that was a lot of "effective"s.
Issue with that from a balance perspective is that the "filler" levels are a disadvantage that somewhat balance the awesomeness that arrives later.
Seriously, insect plague is the best spell in BG1 and is loads of fun besides, if the changes were made that you suggest there'd be little reason to play any other classes except for RP purposes.
Mind you, it's not just IP. Call Lightning, Ironskins and Call Woodland Being are the other bread and butter spells with honourable mentions to utility spells like protection from fire/cold.
I don't know why it would be so bad to give them the same spells they get in Ice Wind Dale? They're not really a heavily used class and this could change that and make them more flexible without making them absurdly overpowered.
Druid is already overpowered. If you don't think so then you aren't doing it right
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
Power doesn't necessarily make them interesting to play. I took Faldorn along with me in my most recent BGEE run, and she was quite effective... I just found her to be boring to have in the party. Her effectiveness hinged on a small handful of very potent spells, and there were entire spell levels that I filled with nothing but filler and never used.
The IWD spell list that I posted aspects of would give druids a nice boost to control and offensive magic, which would give them all sorts of tricks to pull in a variety of situations. Raw power level has nothing to do with it.
Edit: Holy crap, that was a lot of "effective"s.
Issue with that from a balance perspective is that the "filler" levels are a disadvantage that somewhat balance the awesomeness that arrives later.
Seriously, insect plague is the best spell in BG1 and is loads of fun besides, if the changes were made that you suggest there'd be little reason to play any other classes except for RP purposes.
Mind you, it's not just IP. Call Lightning, Ironskins and Call Woodland Being are the other bread and butter spells with honourable mentions to utility spells like protection from fire/cold.
True, but my concern isn't balance. If this was a multiplayer game, then you'd be right, no question. Druids are exceptionally powerful in IWD, to the point where you should always have one in your party. Does that make the game worse? Not in my book.
You've listed four spells that define a Druid's power in BGEE. A Mage of the same level would have several times that number of effective and iconic spells that they can call upon. Just because spells like Insect Plague and Call Woodland Beings are good enough for Druids to be powerful doesn't mean that more variety in their spellbook would be excessive.
Seriously, insect plague is the best spell in BG1 and is loads of fun besides, if the changes were made that you suggest there'd be little reason to play any other classes except for RP purposes.
Mind you, it's not just IP. Call Lightning, Ironskins and Call Woodland Being are the other bread and butter spells with honourable mentions to utility spells like protection from fire/cold.
I'll grant you that those four spells are powerful, but the Cleric gets Prot. from Evil 10' radius (arguably one of the best party buffs in BGEE), Holy Power, Mental Domination, and Holy Smite, all of which are powerhouse spells, and they get great 1st and 2nd level spells, full plate, and a shield in the bargain. I don't think Clerics are so woefully underpowered that Druids need sucky low level spells to be balanced against them.
Wowo's list doesn't have any level 1 or 2 spells on it, which is the issue. Druids are alright mid-to-late BG1 but they start off with terrible spell choices.
Yeah, Druids need some 1st and 2nd level spell flexibility. Making some of their area effects more party-friendly would go a long way to fixing them, too: the old BG1 version of Entangle was better than the new (BG2) version, and that's ignoring the new (BG2) version's horrible graphical performance on iPad.
** Level 1 **
- Animal Companion: Summon a Wild Dog or Wolf for ~8 hours. This is a low-level Animate Dead, and fills the same role: it's a summon which sticks around long enough to be worth buffing. Stops being useful around the time Animate Dead comes online.
- Entangle: Use the old BG1 version, it's party-friendly and it's graphically cheaper. OR, make the spell more party-friendly by making Rangers and Druids immune to the Entangle effect. This also gives Rangers a reason to exist, which is nice.
- Magic Stone: Make this not suck. Either make it some kind of magical weapon (maybe using Sling proficiency?), or have it just plain generate Sling ammo, or make it auto-hit for decent damage and deal extra damage to undead.
Generating Sling ammo is kind of interesting, since there are lots of arrows dropped but seemingly few sling stones. Maybe at higher levels the ammo you generate can optionally deal +1 fire or +1 acid damage, to help with Trolls. (Generated ammo would have some kind of limited lifespan, and you wouldn't be able to sell it, of course.)
** Level 2 **
- Goodberry: Make this not suck, or just get rid of it.
- Flame Blade: Make this use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and Druids have an advantage over Clerics, which is good enough to make this count as a really good Druid spell.
- Moonblade: Steal this effect from IWD. We already have a Moonblade in BGEE, so the graphic for this spell exists. Like Flame Blade (above), have Moonblade use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and have it do extra damage to the Undead instead of what Xan's does.
** Level 3 **
- Hold Animal: Make it "Hold Person or Animal", like the level 2 Charm Person or Animal, and it's worth a slot.
** Level 4 **
- Flame Strike: Steal this innovation from 3e and allow Druids to cast this spell. Maybe make the fire green, that would look cool.
- Flame Blade: Make this use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and Druids have an advantage over Clerics, which is good enough to make this count as a really good Druid spell.
- Moonblade: Steal this effect from IWD. We already have a Moonblade in BGEE, so the graphic for this spell exists. Like Flame Blade (above), have Moonblade use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and have it do extra damage to the Undead instead of what Xan's does.
So druids are forced to use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency or these spells will completely suck for them because of an -3 penalty?
- Flame Blade: Make this use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and Druids have an advantage over Clerics, which is good enough to make this count as a really good Druid spell.
- Moonblade: Steal this effect from IWD. We already have a Moonblade in BGEE, so the graphic for this spell exists. Like Flame Blade (above), have Moonblade use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and have it do extra damage to the Undead instead of what Xan's does.
So druids are forced to use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency or these spells will completely suck for them because of an -3 penalty?
The spell gives a +4 bonus, so they'll be just as competent as a Cleric if they lack the appropriate proficiency. IIRC the appropriate proficiency is "Short Swords", so yeah... right now they do lack exactly that.
The idea is to give an advantage to Druids who want to go that route.
Comments
- scimitars
- call lightning and the outdoor setting
- call woodland being (mass cure at level 7???? Not to mention effective CC)
- insect plague (best spell in BG1 available IMO)
My Charname Berserker (6)/Druid (10) with 3 level 5 spells was an absolute beast and took down sarevok in very, very short order. It's kind of wrong that this build can get GM Scimitars but a pure fighter can't.
Edit: that said, if Druids got some new spells as part of a general addition which gave new spells to all casters then I'd be fine with that.
I'm fine with giving more spells that were in AD&D to all caster classes. But I do feel priests are more powerful than druids.
And a dual class with 7 levels in Zerker woulda given you an extra attack....but I'm guessing you were going for spell power?
6/10
7/9
8/9
Are all good options with different advantages. Overall 7/9 might well be the best to fit GM and the extra attack.
The IWD spell list that I posted aspects of would give druids a nice boost to control and offensive magic, which would give them all sorts of tricks to pull in a variety of situations. Raw power level has nothing to do with it.
Edit: Holy crap, that was a lot of "effective"s.
Seriously, insect plague is the best spell in BG1 and is loads of fun besides, if the changes were made that you suggest there'd be little reason to play any other classes except for RP purposes.
Mind you, it's not just IP. Call Lightning, Ironskins and Call Woodland Being are the other bread and butter spells with honourable mentions to utility spells like protection from fire/cold.
You've listed four spells that define a Druid's power in BGEE. A Mage of the same level would have several times that number of effective and iconic spells that they can call upon. Just because spells like Insect Plague and Call Woodland Beings are good enough for Druids to be powerful doesn't mean that more variety in their spellbook would be excessive.
I shall leave now.
** Level 1 **
- Animal Companion: Summon a Wild Dog or Wolf for ~8 hours. This is a low-level Animate Dead, and fills the same role: it's a summon which sticks around long enough to be worth buffing. Stops being useful around the time Animate Dead comes online.
- Entangle: Use the old BG1 version, it's party-friendly and it's graphically cheaper. OR, make the spell more party-friendly by making Rangers and Druids immune to the Entangle effect. This also gives Rangers a reason to exist, which is nice.
- Magic Stone: Make this not suck. Either make it some kind of magical weapon (maybe using Sling proficiency?), or have it just plain generate Sling ammo, or make it auto-hit for decent damage and deal extra damage to undead.
Generating Sling ammo is kind of interesting, since there are lots of arrows dropped but seemingly few sling stones. Maybe at higher levels the ammo you generate can optionally deal +1 fire or +1 acid damage, to help with Trolls. (Generated ammo would have some kind of limited lifespan, and you wouldn't be able to sell it, of course.)
** Level 2 **
- Goodberry: Make this not suck, or just get rid of it.
- Flame Blade: Make this use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and Druids have an advantage over Clerics, which is good enough to make this count as a really good Druid spell.
- Moonblade: Steal this effect from IWD. We already have a Moonblade in BGEE, so the graphic for this spell exists. Like Flame Blade (above), have Moonblade use Dagger or Scimitar proficiency, and have it do extra damage to the Undead instead of what Xan's does.
** Level 3 **
- Hold Animal: Make it "Hold Person or Animal", like the level 2 Charm Person or Animal, and it's worth a slot.
** Level 4 **
- Flame Strike: Steal this innovation from 3e and allow Druids to cast this spell. Maybe make the fire green, that would look cool.
The idea is to give an advantage to Druids who want to go that route.