I am aware that the staff are very, very busy at the moment, so I don't really expect an answer at the moment, but I felt someone should ask. Which of the externalization requests are going to be considered/implemented in BG:EE? Thanks very much to anyone who can answer (especially if the answer includes hardcoded multi/dual classes such as sorcerer and barbarian!)
@Tome - At present, the Overhaul crew is extremely busy fixing critical bugs and getting other platforms approved. As such, they will likely not answer your question simply because they can't spare the time to consider these requests, figure out how much time and effort they would require, and plan their execution.
They are aware of this thread and of modders' needs and desires (the vast majority of BG:EE's testers are modders of fame), so in the longer run these requests are very likely to be considered for implementation. It is just too early a stage for them to conisder them now (they're also developing concepts for BG2:EE, btw).
@AndreaColombo: I did say that I didn't expect an answer. I'm fully aware of the circumstances-I was more hoping that the staff had said something on the matter before release, and I had missed the note. Thanks nonetheless-I appreciate the prompt response.
Maybe that's just a crazy talk, but it would be very nice if dual/multiclasses were not just hardcoded, separate classes, but rather generated on the basis of base classes (according to a set of rules, of course). A little bit NWN-style. In such way maybe even prestige classes could be implemented (if anyone would want it to happen). I know there are kits, but some extreme ToB players complained that they cannot become even more overpowered.
I know that such solution is not even just hard but probably impossible (given the nature of BG:EE engine), especially at present. But if done right, it theoretically should solve all "why no barbarian/bard class" problems.
@solomonkane: in BG:EE, the GUI will be completely soft-coded / moddable. Cameron Tofer once said on Twitter the foot circles will also be overhauled. Most likely, you'll be able to do all you wish and more once the game is released
Heya! It's me, Noob-o-man.
Did this happen? Having a moddable GUI (like IWD2 did) would be awesome, but the GUI for BG:EE looks the same as BG2.
@Tome - Actually, there have been a few externalizations here and there. Besides, I'm not sure why you'd think that what has not been externalized yet never will? Time's not over :-)
Sorry, should have been more clear: it was more that nothing has really been said by the staff about the externalizations: maybe I'm just being thick, but I really don't recall anything mentioned concerning them and so I think it would be fantastic if the staff were kind enough to explain what has been externalized and what may be externalized in the near future.
Thanks for the speedy response. Delighted, as always, by the positivity in these forums!
Edit: Would be especially interested in finding out whether Stat Bonuses and Multiclassing could be externalized. The former because I think modders would love to adjust Intelligence and Wisdom, the latter because I want a Fighter/Sorcerer. :P
@Tome - All I can say is that externalizations will happen post ship, and by that I mean "after BG2:EE is released". Right now, the devs are too busy fixing bugs and developing new content for BG2:EE; their schedule's pretty tight as is, and they cannot afford the luxury to spare time for anything else.
When BG2:EE is released, there will be some time dedicated to releasing patches, so externalizations might not happen right away. However, the devs are aware of every single request on this thread, plus a few others that came up during the beta, and they'll get to them eventually. It just takes time and patience
In case developers are still paying attention to this thread, I'd like:
- Per-kit spell lists. - An item flag which links the item to a spell, so it behaves as though it were on the spell list of any linked spell. - Externalization of the "Bard Song" button effect. - Externalization of the "Turn Undead" button effect.
Per-kit spell lists - For clerics, druids, paladins and rangers, this is the list of spells they get for free each level. I'd like the ability to configure this separately for every kit. - For sorcerers & dragon disciples, this is the list of spells from which they choose to learn when they level up. Again, I'd like the ability to change the list of spells for sorcerer kits. - For bards, bard kits, mages & specialist mages, this is the list of spells which they're allowed to scribe into their spell-book. I'd like to be able to add or restrict based on more than just spell schools. To preserve current behavior, the game would ship with each kit pointing to the same spell list as the parent class, or to the specialist spell lists as appropriate, and the Wild Mage list would have three spells more than the generalist Mage list.
Spell List Item Links Under the above system, adding a new scroll might be a pain. You'd have to figure out which spell list each scroll is on, and configure the scroll's usability flags appropriately. Instead, it would be nice to be able to say, "This item emulates that spell, so let anyone who can use that spell also use this item". This is just a nice-to-have. The other two are more important.
Bard Song and Turn Undead button effects I'd like the ability to tie an arbitrary effect to these buttons. In specific, I want to do one of the following: EITHER 1) Modal button sets internal variable, which is used by party AI scripts. Party AI scripts use internal variable in addition to other input (i.e. attack-clicking on an enemy) to determine the character's behavior. With this set up, it would be easy to have Viconia sling a few stones at a ghoul, then when it dies, return to using Turn Undead as her default action. OR 2) Spell-like ability which party AI scripts know not to interrupt. Ability is modified by items, so the Bard Song of the Lyre of Buttkicking will generate a different effect than the Bard Song of the Gong of Goodness, and you can switch between them but never have both active at once.
Effect (1) is useful for the core game and my mod ideas, while effect (2) is something good for modders only. Effect (1) is also useful for Find Traps, so maybe that should be included in this request, too.
Please let me know if this is clear enough. Thank you!
Please externalize profs.2da for each kit. There is a table to let modder modify the proficiency points of each classes, but no table for each kit now.
In addition, I want to request something like multi-level hierarchical character creation steps like Rangers. I mean Rangers can select a specific enemy and have an innate ability which gives additional combat bonuses against the enemy. As the Ranger's character creation gives, I want to make branch selection option for Druids.
Finally, I'd like to request more flags for distinguish equipment. For example, there are many types of armor in BG series like Leather, Studded Leather, Hide, Chain, Splint, Plate, and Full Plate armor. However, there is no type like metal, wood, scale, and so on. Furthermore, all shields are just categorized as "Shield" rather than Buckler, Small/Medium/Large Shield. Large Swords in BG1 was extended and classified to several types in BG2, so I think shields/armors also should be.
I was going to post a thread about requesting opcodes but I guess they fit under the banner of externalization.
- Specific Spell Dispel Effect Opcode 58 dispels magic based on levels and opcode 206 grants protection from a spell before it is applied on the target, however neither can dispel the effects of a single spell when it is active. It would be incredibly useful to have an opcode that can dispel or remove the effects of a specified spell from being in effect. So the dispel effect would be confined to affecting only one single spell. For example in p&p there is a spell called Bands of Ice that can be dispelled but only via a fire spell. The only way to make this spell possible at the moment is to use opcode 58 but that would dispel everything else, when ideally you'd add an opcode to each fire spell that specifically dispels only the Bands of Ice spell.
- Magic Spell Damage Modifier There are modifiers for melee, missile and weapon damage but not really any for magic spells. Unless you count the Spell Caster Level modifier but that doesn't allow a flat damage bonus or penalty among all magic. It would help in creating the p&p spell Augmentation.
- Magic Target Modifier There is a wild magic effect (#90) that says it grants a 60-ft radius area effect. But it would be useful to be able to change the area of effect of all spells cast from either "creature", "area", "all living", "not in party", "not evil", "except self", etc... So you could increase or decrease a spell caster's range, while also applying specific limitations to how spells are cast. It would help in creating the p&p spells of Squaring the Circle and Dilation.
- Casting Range Modifier (or even weapon Range modifier) This would alter the range value of all spells to a specific modifier. So a touch ranged spell could occur a couple of feet away or a long ranged spell would occur a couple of feet closer to the target. It would help in creating the p&p spell called Far Reaching.
- Projectile Speed Modifier There is a attack speed modifier, but not one specifically for projectiles. This would be useful in slowing or speeding up missile weapons or even projectile magic. So you could have a Matrix dodging bullets thing going on. There is a wild magic effect (#58) that is said to slow all projectiles down by half.
- Externalizing the Kit Description of a Multi-Class It is possible to make kits for multi-classes by using the Add_Kit script action. Whichever class IDS you assign to the kit will determine what side of the multi-class is kitted. So a cleric IDS will alter the cleric part of a Cleric/Thief and thief IDS will alter the other side. However while the title changes to "Kit"/Thief or Cleric/"Kit", the kit description will stay to that of a Cleric/Thief. It would be useful to at least make it that the kit description of a multi-class takes on the format of a dual-class, where both descriptions of the thief and cleric would be displayed and therefore one of the descriptions would be updated via the adding of a kit.
Another way of allowing for kits onto multi-class combinations would be to create single class versions of the multi-class combos. This single class version of a multi-class would be added to the Class.ids file of which the modder could then access via the change ids opcode. So you could apply a kit the normal way but the kit would get the buttons of a Cleric and a Thief, thus opening up the options for a modder to try unconventional kits with interface buttons previously denied to them.
Also it would be useful to be able to switch a class from using Arcane magic to Divine magic and vice versa. So you could create a Bard kit that instead draws its' spell from the Divine scrollbook, or a Ranger/Paladin that draws from the Arcane scrollbook. Or even a kit with the Cleric/Ranger button interface that draws from the Arcane scrollbook. Just like how the Druid uses the Mage button setup but draws spell from the divine scrollbook. Alternate versions of existing spellcasters could be added to the class.ids too, or you could create an opcode that lets you activate an arcane or divine scrollbook (kinda like the reverse of blocking out a scrollbook).
So the single classes that would be added to the class.ids file would be something like this:
Cleric/Thief Mage/Thief Ranger/Cleric Ranger with Arcane scrollbook Cleric or Paladin with Arcane scrollbook Bard with Divine scrollbook
Externalize end-of-stealth delay. As of a recent BG:EE update, whenever a character exits stealth mode, the stealth button is disabled for that character for 6 seconds. Externalize that delay.
Optionally, also externalize the stealth delay that occurs when a character fails a stealth attempt. (But please keep this separate from the above setting.)
@viader - we have externalized most sounds, including falling sounds (the creature hitting the ground after death) but I'm not sure about walking sounds. Maybe @CamDawg or @ScottBrooks would know more about it.
May I ask for the externalization of how NPCs (Yoshimo and version of Imoen before Spellhold) are taken away form the party in BG2:EE? To remove it from the .exe and put it in the start of ar4000.bcs.
I would like to have the possibility to create items with an Identify effect like the Glasses of Identification (MISC3P.ITM).
Currently, if this item is copied and renamed it loses the ability to identify. Besides, in NearInfinity the opcode 149 is named Identify, but according to IESDP opcode 149 is currently empty and has no effect.
I just thought I'd chime in to let you know that while we are happy to review and consider any modder request, we need to be 100% clear from the get-go on what exactly you are asking. In order to maximize clarity and minimize the time and effort required from the dev team to investigate the feasibility of each request, it would help immensely if you could provide each request in the form of repro steps.
The best way to do this is to create a modded file that requires the feature you want, attach it here and provide repro steps to witness how it currently fails to work in-game. Taking @Erg's latest request as an example, it would look something like this:
1. Put the attached file in your override folder. 2. Start a new BG:EE game. 3. CLUAConsole:CreateItem("itemcode") to create a copy of the attached item in your inventory. 4. "I" to access your inventory. 5. Right-click the item to access its description and properties. 6. Observe that the item offers no option to identify other unidentified items.
The attached items should have the ability to identify unidentifed items like this and that.
This is, of course, but a very crude example but it shows you the most effective format to get your requests looked at.
2 things I'd love to see - Regeneration effect stacking (ToBEx fixed that in BG, while in EE only the highest regeneration source works) and fixing the "cast spell on condition" opcode so that it triggers correctly - "when hit" is true even if no hit has been done at all - example - it returns true even if a character under this opcode is standing in a Stinking Cloud or similar, any offensive action makes it trigger. "in range 4'" and "10'" return true even if there are no enemies around.
Comments
They are aware of this thread and of modders' needs and desires (the vast majority of BG:EE's testers are modders of fame), so in the longer run these requests are very likely to be considered for implementation. It is just too early a stage for them to conisder them now (they're also developing concepts for BG2:EE, btw).
A little bit NWN-style.
In such way maybe even prestige classes could be implemented (if anyone would want it to happen).
I know there are kits, but some extreme ToB players complained that they cannot become even more overpowered.
I know that such solution is not even just hard but probably impossible (given the nature of BG:EE engine), especially at present.
But if done right, it theoretically should solve all "why no barbarian/bard class" problems.
Did this happen? Having a moddable GUI (like IWD2 did) would be awesome, but the GUI for BG:EE looks the same as BG2.
Still fully support Beamdog, but this is one area I would appreciate some more clarity in (as in, can we expect anything to be externalized).
Thanks for the speedy response. Delighted, as always, by the positivity in these forums!
Edit: Would be especially interested in finding out whether Stat Bonuses and Multiclassing could be externalized. The former because I think modders would love to adjust Intelligence and Wisdom, the latter because I want a Fighter/Sorcerer. :P
When BG2:EE is released, there will be some time dedicated to releasing patches, so externalizations might not happen right away. However, the devs are aware of every single request on this thread, plus a few others that came up during the beta, and they'll get to them eventually. It just takes time and patience
Thanks very much for the update, at least we all know where we stand concerning this matter then!
- Per-kit spell lists.
- An item flag which links the item to a spell, so it behaves as though it were on the spell list of any linked spell.
- Externalization of the "Bard Song" button effect.
- Externalization of the "Turn Undead" button effect.
Thanks, -- N
@subtledoctor - I've added your request to the list (not the public list on this thread, which has been discontinued).
Per-kit spell lists
- For clerics, druids, paladins and rangers, this is the list of spells they get for free each level. I'd like the ability to configure this separately for every kit.
- For sorcerers & dragon disciples, this is the list of spells from which they choose to learn when they level up. Again, I'd like the ability to change the list of spells for sorcerer kits.
- For bards, bard kits, mages & specialist mages, this is the list of spells which they're allowed to scribe into their spell-book. I'd like to be able to add or restrict based on more than just spell schools.
To preserve current behavior, the game would ship with each kit pointing to the same spell list as the parent class, or to the specialist spell lists as appropriate, and the Wild Mage list would have three spells more than the generalist Mage list.
Spell List Item Links
Under the above system, adding a new scroll might be a pain. You'd have to figure out which spell list each scroll is on, and configure the scroll's usability flags appropriately. Instead, it would be nice to be able to say, "This item emulates that spell, so let anyone who can use that spell also use this item". This is just a nice-to-have. The other two are more important.
Bard Song and Turn Undead button effects
I'd like the ability to tie an arbitrary effect to these buttons. In specific, I want to do one of the following:
EITHER
1) Modal button sets internal variable, which is used by party AI scripts. Party AI scripts use internal variable in addition to other input (i.e. attack-clicking on an enemy) to determine the character's behavior. With this set up, it would be easy to have Viconia sling a few stones at a ghoul, then when it dies, return to using Turn Undead as her default action.
OR
2) Spell-like ability which party AI scripts know not to interrupt. Ability is modified by items, so the Bard Song of the Lyre of Buttkicking will generate a different effect than the Bard Song of the Gong of Goodness, and you can switch between them but never have both active at once.
Effect (1) is useful for the core game and my mod ideas, while effect (2) is something good for modders only. Effect (1) is also useful for Find Traps, so maybe that should be included in this request, too.
Please let me know if this is clear enough.
Thank you!
In addition, I want to request something like multi-level hierarchical character creation steps like Rangers. I mean Rangers can select a specific enemy and have an innate ability which gives additional combat bonuses against the enemy. As the Ranger's character creation gives, I want to make branch selection option for Druids.
Finally, I'd like to request more flags for distinguish equipment. For example, there are many types of armor in BG series like Leather, Studded Leather, Hide, Chain, Splint, Plate, and Full Plate armor. However, there is no type like metal, wood, scale, and so on. Furthermore, all shields are just categorized as "Shield" rather than Buckler, Small/Medium/Large Shield. Large Swords in BG1 was extended and classified to several types in BG2, so I think shields/armors also should be.
- Specific Spell Dispel Effect
Opcode 58 dispels magic based on levels and opcode 206 grants protection from a spell before it is applied on the target, however neither can dispel the effects of a single spell when it is active. It would be incredibly useful to have an opcode that can dispel or remove the effects of a specified spell from being in effect. So the dispel effect would be confined to affecting only one single spell. For example in p&p there is a spell called Bands of Ice that can be dispelled but only via a fire spell. The only way to make this spell possible at the moment is to use opcode 58 but that would dispel everything else, when ideally you'd add an opcode to each fire spell that specifically dispels only the Bands of Ice spell.
- Magic Spell Damage Modifier
There are modifiers for melee, missile and weapon damage but not really any for magic spells. Unless you count the Spell Caster Level modifier but that doesn't allow a flat damage bonus or penalty among all magic. It would help in creating the p&p spell Augmentation.
- Magic Target Modifier
There is a wild magic effect (#90) that says it grants a 60-ft radius area effect. But it would be useful to be able to change the area of effect of all spells cast from either "creature", "area", "all living", "not in party", "not evil", "except self", etc... So you could increase or decrease a spell caster's range, while also applying specific limitations to how spells are cast. It would help in creating the p&p spells of Squaring the Circle and Dilation.
- Casting Range Modifier (or even weapon Range modifier)
This would alter the range value of all spells to a specific modifier. So a touch ranged spell could occur a couple of feet away or a long ranged spell would occur a couple of feet closer to the target. It would help in creating the p&p spell called Far Reaching.
- Projectile Speed Modifier
There is a attack speed modifier, but not one specifically for projectiles. This would be useful in slowing or speeding up missile weapons or even projectile magic. So you could have a Matrix dodging bullets thing going on. There is a wild magic effect (#58) that is said to slow all projectiles down by half.
- Externalizing the Kit Description of a Multi-Class
It is possible to make kits for multi-classes by using the Add_Kit script action. Whichever class IDS you assign to the kit will determine what side of the multi-class is kitted. So a cleric IDS will alter the cleric part of a Cleric/Thief and thief IDS will alter the other side. However while the title changes to "Kit"/Thief or Cleric/"Kit", the kit description will stay to that of a Cleric/Thief. It would be useful to at least make it that the kit description of a multi-class takes on the format of a dual-class, where both descriptions of the thief and cleric would be displayed and therefore one of the descriptions would be updated via the adding of a kit.
Another way of allowing for kits onto multi-class combinations would be to create single class versions of the multi-class combos. This single class version of a multi-class would be added to the Class.ids file of which the modder could then access via the change ids opcode. So you could apply a kit the normal way but the kit would get the buttons of a Cleric and a Thief, thus opening up the options for a modder to try unconventional kits with interface buttons previously denied to them.
Also it would be useful to be able to switch a class from using Arcane magic to Divine magic and vice versa. So you could create a Bard kit that instead draws its' spell from the Divine scrollbook, or a Ranger/Paladin that draws from the Arcane scrollbook. Or even a kit with the Cleric/Ranger button interface that draws from the Arcane scrollbook. Just like how the Druid uses the Mage button setup but draws spell from the divine scrollbook. Alternate versions of existing spellcasters could be added to the class.ids too, or you could create an opcode that lets you activate an arcane or divine scrollbook (kinda like the reverse of blocking out a scrollbook).
So the single classes that would be added to the class.ids file would be something like this:
Cleric/Thief
Mage/Thief
Ranger/Cleric
Ranger with Arcane scrollbook
Cleric or Paladin with Arcane scrollbook
Bard with Divine scrollbook
level;school;description;castingtime;castanimation;targettype;range;
Everything being a numerical value except description being a string.
Optionally, also externalize the stealth delay that occurs when a character fails a stealth attempt. (But please keep this separate from the above setting.)
@Miloch @Cuv - Maybe, you can help in this feature.
Currently, if this item is copied and renamed it loses the ability to identify. Besides, in NearInfinity the opcode 149 is named Identify, but according to IESDP opcode 149 is currently empty and has no effect.
Can this be externalised?
I just thought I'd chime in to let you know that while we are happy to review and consider any modder request, we need to be 100% clear from the get-go on what exactly you are asking. In order to maximize clarity and minimize the time and effort required from the dev team to investigate the feasibility of each request, it would help immensely if you could provide each request in the form of repro steps.
The best way to do this is to create a modded file that requires the feature you want, attach it here and provide repro steps to witness how it currently fails to work in-game. Taking @Erg's latest request as an example, it would look something like this:
1. Put the attached file in your override folder.
2. Start a new BG:EE game.
3. CLUAConsole:CreateItem("itemcode") to create a copy of the attached item in your inventory.
4. "I" to access your inventory.
5. Right-click the item to access its description and properties.
6. Observe that the item offers no option to identify other unidentified items.
The attached items should have the ability to identify unidentifed items like this and that.
This is, of course, but a very crude example but it shows you the most effective format to get your requests looked at.
"in range 4'" and "10'" return true even if there are no enemies around.