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Monks any use?

FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
I was thinking of Rasaad and tried to find something definitive about him apart from the blurb on the homepage, but I cant seem to find anyone who has anything significantly positive or negative about him. Does anyone have any thoughts on him, or what type of a prty he would fit into best?

How are monks in general, I think I had one in one of the IWD games, but tbh, I remember absolutely nothing about him. What sort of stats would be best do you think?

Thanks for any replies...yes I am an alt-a-holic :)

Comments

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Monks in BG1 are very fragile and not *particularly* useful. It's kind of like a low-level mage, they don't come into their own until higher levels.
    However, they're good for hit-and-run strategies and with the right equipment, their AC is fairly ok.

    Beef your stats as if you were a fighter, so Str/Dex/Con on top. The rest is optional.
    Being a non-specialised class (so unlike a fighter, a mage or a thief), you'll still want any of those in your group. He can fill up the fifth or sixth slot.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Drugar said:

    Monks in BG1 are very fragile and not *particularly* useful. It's kind of like a low-level mage, they don't come into their own until higher levels.
    However, they're good for hit-and-run strategies and with the right equipment, their AC is fairly ok.

    Beef your stats as if you were a fighter, so Str/Dex/Con on top. The rest is optional.
    Being a non-specialised class (so unlike a fighter, a mage or a thief), you'll still want any of those in your group. He can fill up the fifth or sixth slot.

    Thanks Drugar, I was considering him for my current play with the new characters, but I think I'll leave him, I cant think who I would remove, to fit him in if he's not that great.

    Thanks for the help :)
  • KamehouseKamehouse Member Posts: 66
    I'd only use a monk if i would want to import him into BG2 and take advantage of the tomes to find in BG1.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Kamehouse said:

    I'd only use a monk if i would want to import him into BG2 and take advantage of the tomes to find in BG1.

    Thats interesting Kamehouse.

    Can I import a Monk from BG EE into my original CD's version of BG2 or would I have to use some modding to get that to work?

    What tomes would you give a Monk, do you think?

    Thanks for the reply :)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Importing a character from BGEE to the original BG2 should work fine, as BGEE uses the same kind of character files as BG2; I've been doing it quite a bit, although my BG2 install is from GOG and has a bunch of mods added on to it, so I'm only 99% sure it will work with a vanilla install.

    The only tome that's a big deal for Monks is the Strength tome, as it will take you from a flat 18 to 19, which is a huge increase in attack and damage. If you're playing non-evil you might also take the Dex tome to shore up that score for the point in BG2 when you have to sacrifice a point of Dex. Con above 16 doesn't matter, Int only matters for mindflayers and Cleric-usable scrolls and wands, and Wis doesn't matter at all. Cha only matters for store discounts.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Thanks very much Kaigen, I think I'll take Rasaad on a test drive and see how he works out, then maybe make my own, cheers :)
  • MykraMykra Member Posts: 252
    Monks aren't as bad as some make them out to be, but they are by no means a great class in BG1 (mainly thanks to the Monk's fists not becoming magical until level 9). However, they will develop into an absolute monster in the next game, so unlike many classes you will feel yourself getting more and more beast as you level throughout the entire saga.

    When I used Rasaad, I used him as a slinger and my mage hound. He has decent str and dex, and you will be able to give him an item to up his Str and/or Dex, unless you have an incredibly awkward party setup. Also, if you are importing from a Black Pits character, you can bring a monster +4 Thac0/ +4 Damage glove for him to wear. With a high strength, good dex missile bonus, enchanted sling and bullets he becomes accurate and hits harder than you would think with a sling. You can pick up a sling+1 from Beregost for a pittance of like 120 gold, and he gets his next prof point at 6k xp, so you don't have to wait an age to get this build rolling.

    As a mage hound, I like using the Monk's inherent speed boost to cut towards an enemy spellcaster, and then lock him down as the killshot either lines up, or I take out the Mage's bodyguards. Stunning Blow is excellent for this.

    I've heard a lot of people talk about equipping him with the scimitar and running him as a flanking melee specialist, but I've never personally tried it. It sounds legit though.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Thanks for all that Mykra, its a very interesting read and makes me more inclined towards the class.

    I havent tried Black Pits, at what level do you think it should be attempted?

    Thanks again for the information :)
  • KamehouseKamehouse Member Posts: 66
    edited February 2013
    Kamehouse said:

    I'd only use a monk if i would want to import him into BG2 and take advantage of the tomes to find in BG1.

    As others stated, importing the monk in the original BG2 should be possible. I thought about BG2EE, anyway. @Kaigen is quite right about the tomes. But wisdom is not unimportant, because the result of wishes will be influenced by wisdom, and +3 could help there (even this is the exception for the usefulness of wisdom for a monk). http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/spells/wizard/wizardspell.asp?lvl_id=9&file_name=wish.htm&title=Wish On the other hand I'd just go through BG1 with him to get the tomes - and when I plan to use a char in BG2 I always give it all tomes, just because it is "the one", others may handle it elsewise as truely not every attribute matters for a monk - and would not do anything to make him low-level-useful but to prepare him for BG2.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Thanks for that suggestion Kamehouse, it hadn't occured to me to do that with the tomes, cheers! :)
  • KamehouseKamehouse Member Posts: 66
    edited February 2013
    PS: Tomes for a monk

    STR - yes, no question (think of the weight you can carry, too)
    DEX - if you have less than 18 (less than 13 is unlikely), sure. If you have 18, you get 1 more reaction bonus (who moves or attacks first in a round) reaching 19
    CON - if you have less than 16 (less than 13 is unlikely) or if you have 18 to get to 20 with the Machine of Lum the Mad for the regeneration bonus
    INT - well it could help against mindflayers and for reading scrolls and it can increase your ability to identify things (if you have 9, 10 will decrease lore penalty by 10%, if you have 5,10,15 use a tome to survive another mindflayers attack, use the tome at 4,9,14 if you use the Machine of Lum the Mad, too)
    WIS - only for whish (I think there is only one encounter with a djinn that will matter) and it increases your ability to identify things
    (lore is only a matter if both, INT and WIS are high enough, while a player would prefer to dump these stats for STR, DEX and CON.)
    CHA - discount (if you don't have another high CHA char in the group)

    So every tome can be helpful and will have an effect even for a monk, even not very much and depending on your stats or your group as you won't have all stats at a value where a tome matters, but it CAN ;-)
    Post edited by Kamehouse on
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that Kamehouse, I really appreciate it, it will be a big help with my other playthroughs as well.

    Thanks again! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    @Kamehouse When is a monk's Wis going to matter for Wish? He can't cast it, and if you're going to do the trick where someone else talks to the djinn first, then it could be a high Wis NPC in the party just as easily.
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Fiach said:

    Thanks for all that Mykra, its a very interesting read and makes me more inclined towards the class.

    I havent tried Black Pits, at what level do you think it should be attempted?

    Thanks again for the information :)

    The Black Pits is a stand-alone adventure. You have to make your own party to play through it.

    Although if you're going to export items from the Black Pits, you might as well just add them with the console. It's the same thing, really.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Luigirules said:

    Fiach said:

    Thanks for all that Mykra, its a very interesting read and makes me more inclined towards the class.

    I havent tried Black Pits, at what level do you think it should be attempted?

    Thanks again for the information :)

    The Black Pits is a stand-alone adventure. You have to make your own party to play through it.

    Although if you're going to export items from the Black Pits, you might as well just add them with the console. It's the same thing, really.
    Ah, OK I didnt know that, I looked at the start screen and the preloaded characters, found it a bit daunting and went back to BG single player, so I havent delved into it in any significant way. I wont use a console, I thought you could import a party into Black Pits (kinda like the "cube" in 'Torment) and then exit back to single player.

    Thanks for the advice :)

  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    I had never played a monk until another run through a year ago. I usually play through a heavily modded TUTU installation, though no mods that buffed the monk class.

    I must say getting through the first few levels of TOSC was tedious, but with the help of a couple of monk only artifacts in SOA/TOB this character became one of the most devastating characters I have ever played. By level 14 he was a wrecking ball.

    Probably the most pound-for-pound deadly CHARNAME I have ever had by the time HLA's rolled around.

    http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/priests/monk/

  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    It seems to take a long time for the ugly duckling to become a swan it appears. I'm still going to give it a try soon though.
    Thanks for that link Edwin, thats a cool site, cheers! :)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited February 2013
    I wrote up a guide on him that I hope might be of some use: here. Be advised that the guide contains some spoilers, however.

    He can be a fun addition to the party, but just don't expect him to be slogging it out in melee against heavily armored, high damage-dealing bruisers. You have to use him smarter than that.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    @Lemernis That guide is very helpful, I must say, thanks for the link.

    I'm currently running a monk (Chu Li), He is in party with Jahira, Kagain, Viconia, Shar-Teel and Imoen, they are doing pretty well so far, and I'm enjoying it, insofar as, its not a steamroller team like my Sorceror or Blackguard teams and he is specifically for BG2.

    Anyone know for certain if I can bring a BG:EE character into either my original CD version of BG2 or my GOG version of BG2 or do I need some mod?

    Thanks for all the help so far :)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    BG:EE uses an overhauled TOB engine. I doubt it would work, or run stably at any rate. Someone more knowledgeable than me about the NPC .cre files will have to weigh in.

    There are a couple of mods that work with BG:EE but not many yet, because it has a new WeiDU.
  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    @Flach Yes, you can import the character file but any items unique to BGEE, BG2 will not recognize.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    I would think those items could be placed in the Override folder, though, no?

    The .cre files are basically the same? And Dorn is a new kit... It's basically still a paladin, though, with modifications.
  • EdwinEdwin Member Posts: 480
    @Lemeris Yes, if you re fluent in Infinity modding and shodowkeepeer, recreating the inventory and special innate s won't be much of a problem.
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Edwin said:

    @Lemeris Yes, if you re fluent in Infinity modding and shodowkeepeer, recreating the inventory and special innate s won't be much of a problem.

    That definately means no for me, well, at least I can import the character, so its no big deal if I cant bring items really.

    Thanks for the help guys :)

  • mement0mement0 Member Posts: 105
    edited February 2013
    Above posters have already gone through the main points so I will try to add something, as I am currently playing as a monk.

    In a group with Dorn, Kagain, Xar, Montaron and Viconia my monk is contributing 26% to the xp of the party. So in terms of damage I would not say he is contributing. At least for the low levels of BG1.

    In terms of utility I use him as a scout. You know the procedure. Hide in shadows, them move inside the fog of war. I am not a big fan of divination spells, so I am revealing enemies with him. His speed helps in this as well.

    I do not remember at which level but as a main character the monk gains some interesting spells:
    Minor Drain is always useful. I am not an expert on BG rules but I have never seen an enemy resist this.
    Slow poison always comes in handy. There will be times you will wish for it and your cleric will not have it.
    Horror is ok I guess.
    Vampiric Touch I am not a big fan of. To be honest I would replace it with Knock anytime. But this is just me.

    EDIT: Correcting myself.
    Innate abilities are defined by alignment.

  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Thanks for that Mement0, Well, so far I am enjoying the monk, his Hide is pretty rubbish though, but he's only about Lv 3 I think. I use him with sling until the enemy is engaged and then send hin in with Stuning Fist (this is for people like Bassilus/Mulahey etc. other than that I just confine him to slings), I have plenty of melee characters, Vic is dual wielding plussed maces, Shar is using Vascona and a poison dagger, Dorn is using Rancor and Jahira uses a plussed wakizashi, so in all fairness my monk wouldnt be able to get near enough to punch anything really :)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited February 2013
    It rocks when you can send a Monk in (be it Rasaad or one you're playing) and stun an opponent like Bassilus. This is one instance where I think speed factor of the weapon can really make a difference--disrupting spells from being cast. And fists are fastest of all at a speed factor of 0: instantaneous. A Monk's fists get 2 attacks per round. Add to that a Monk's nearly hasted foot speed and you've got a real skill for them.

    Darts are also good to disrupt spell casters, as their speed is also extremely fast. There are some new enchanted darts in EE with a speed factor of 1.

    One of the mods that is now available for BG:EE is Need a Shuriken 1.1? which adds surikens that have a speed factor of zero. These are designed with Monks in mind, best I can tell.


    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • FiachFiach Member Posts: 231
    Well, he's Lv6 at this stage and the team I have seems to work well together, I had intended to d/c Shar and Imoen, but I'm leaning towards...if it ain't broke... :)

    Thanks for the link, while I would like shuriken in the game, I would be afraid to tinker with mods as I hope to bring my characters into BG2 and if it doesnt work, it means that it's the game itself thats causing the problem and not something I have done.

    Thanks as usual for the help Lemernis :)
  • KamehouseKamehouse Member Posts: 66
    Kaigen said:

    @Kamehouse When is a monk's Wis going to matter for Wish? He can't cast it, and if you're going to do the trick where someone else talks to the djinn first, then it could be a high Wis NPC in the party just as easily.

    A good point...

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