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Race/Class combos and romances

XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
I distinctly remember from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 about how pretty much you were either Human, Elf, Half Elf most of the time because they had access to most of the classes. I was hoping that halflings, gnomes, dwarves, and half-orcs would be given more access to classes. Also, more specialized priest classes, Talos, Helm, and Lathander are a bit limited if you consider what their ideologies are, and moreover, for BG2 anyways, it'd be awesome if those extra priest kits were given strongholds to align with the different Deities. As for Monks also, their stronghold should be different too, although i suppose that's for when BG2 comes out so I'll shut up about that.

As for romances. I'm not sure if you're al,lowed to do this, but don't you think that it would be awesome if certain characters were romancable like... Alora... and maybe Kagain. I remember that Korgan in BG2 would hit on Mazzy all the time, so aren't the midgets interchangable?

Comments

  • kraedkraed Member Posts: 60
    I don't think the devs are allowed to add new romances to existing characters unfortunately.

    In terms of the class restrictions that's kind just how it was in the older d&d versions, and the game tries to be as faithful to the mechanics where it can be. At least it's not like the earlier versions of D&D where dwarf itself was a class.
  • GridianGridian Member Posts: 50
    Some race-class combos would not make much sense in the first place. A halfling barbarian for example or a half-orc wizard. (given the specific bonus/malus of each race). Also, humans are known to be usable in any class, but in none really adept.

    I too think that the choice, however, should be ours. Playing with race/class combinations that are not ideal would definitely add a new level of challenge to the game which might be fun.
    Also, said halfling barbarian would be a kinda cool sight ;)
  • charnamecharname Member Posts: 13
    Well, barbarian is the favourite class of ghostwise halflings. Just saying...
  • kraedkraed Member Posts: 60
    Gridian said:

    Some race-class combos would not make much sense in the first place. A halfling barbarian for example or a half-orc wizard. (given the specific bonus/malus of each race).

    This is something that doesn't make sense from a powergaming or min/max viewpoint, but makes absolutely perfect sense in the setting. Elves for example don't necessarily make as good front line fighters as Orcs, and are better archers than warriors... does that mean the entire elven race wont bother to fight in close combat? You'll see a load of them using bows for sure, but you'll also see guards with halberds and spears or clerics as well. A race will tend to gravitate towards its preferred class but there's reason to have most - if not all - classes in any race's society so it's perfectly reasonable for there to be a half-orc sorceror or a kobold knight. They'd just be rare that's all.

    Well... except chaotic good drow fighters. They seem to be pretty common. ;)

    Though that's definitely more of a consideration for pen and paper rather than BG, since it's harder to roleplay in a computer game. Still entirely possible though.

  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Well I'm thinking more along the lines of Mazzy or Aerie. Mazzy IS a fighter, but fancies herself a paladin of sorts, and Aerie, being brought up by a cleric/mage; becomes a cleric/mage herself, even though elves cannot multi-class that way. If you think about it, you were raised entirely by humans and around humans (with the exception of elvenbead firehair and that dwarf that wants you to clear his storehouse) but in that aspect, wouldn't it make more sense if you were able to have a bit more choice in JUST the main PC?
  • shout27shout27 Member Posts: 89
    Meh, leave your 3E crap out of my 2E game, it's galling enough that I have to deal with sorcerers.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    shout27 said:

    Meh, leave your 3E crap out of my 2E game, it's galling enough that I have to deal with sorcerers.

    what wrong with it?
  • LediathLediath Member Posts: 125
    kraed said:

    I don't think the devs are allowed to add new romances to existing characters unfortunately.

    In terms of the class restrictions that's kind just how it was in the older d&d versions, and the game tries to be as faithful to the mechanics where it can be. At least it's not like the earlier versions of D&D where dwarf itself was a class.

    but are they allowed to change which race/class combos can romance them?
    for example elf with viconia?
  • shout27shout27 Member Posts: 89
    edited July 2012
    Everyone looks at it and decides that they want to add more 3E crap to the classes in a 2E game. I wouldn't mind as much if they did research on ADnD and tried to figure uses of abilites classes had that they no longer possess, into the game (the Monk had the ability to 'speak with plants' in Oriental Adventures at a certain level).
    They would also probably realize just how much changed and maybe even get an idea of why at least some people still prefer 2E over 3E despite it's ease of power-gaming methods (or because of them).
    There is just such a complete mindset change, between how editions approached not just the character, but the world and magic's interaction with the world that I'm not impressed with the ability to cast Mass Heal in 3E. When I see just how much the way WotC set things, it allowed for munchkinism to take over in the equivalent of a CCG-type pnp character (which is ultimately what I view prestige classes as, the 'booster pack' that you use to alter your character's abilites).
    I am a power-gamer. I can freely admit both that, and that there are some things that I like about 3E but there are a lot more aspects that I utterly despise. I simply do not want munchkinism to infect the series any more than it has. Those who want to play with 3E rules should play IWD2 or NWN1+2, but leave my Baldur's Gate 2E alone!
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    @Shot27 I was asking what's the problem with the sorceror class being in BG2?
    I personally like 3rd edition better because of the customization options, but I respect the fact you like 2nd better, but where the big deal with the addition of sorcerors?
  • Jedi_GnomeJedi_Gnome Member Posts: 92
    I wouldn't mind them opening up classes to other races. Always wanted to be a gnome paladin. But, I really do enjoy a gnome kensai.

    I do want to open up the romance to other races though. I mean its not like it's something that unbalances the game.
  • seekaseeka Member Posts: 53
    @Jedi_Gnome I agree, I really don't see why race really matters when it comes to romance. The romances are a nice optional way of adding depth and a connection to your game. So if you like halfling rogues why shouldn't you be able to chat up Viconia?
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    seeka said:

    @Jedi_Gnome I agree, I really don't see why race really matters when it comes to romance. The romances are a nice optional way of adding depth and a connection to your game. So if you like halfling rogues why shouldn't you be able to chat up Viconia?

    My only problem here personally come with Aerie.... She can have a baby with the character she rommance, but in D&D universe can elves can reproduce only with human, elf and half-elf... Is we open the option ere and she get a baby from let,s say a dwarf it don,t really make sense... but that's my only problem here

  • shout27shout27 Member Posts: 89
    edited July 2012
    Talvrae said:

    @Shot27 I was asking what's the problem with the sorceror class being in BG2?
    I personally like 3rd edition better because of the customization options, but I respect the fact you like 2nd better, but where the big deal with the addition of sorcerors?

    It's in the very first line I said. Have you noticed random people all over the forum posting bits about changing the Sorcerer and Bards primary casting stat to Charisma? Or getting the Monk to add Wis bonus to AC (in the edition of OA I read, they don't receive the Dex bonus to armor class. just the class bonus to AR or a martial arts style AR. though I admit it's not the black book, so it might actually be in that one)?

    Since one didn't regularly see the Sorcerer in ADnD (I'm not sure if they existed in it, so if anyone has confirmation of that I'd like to know which black book it's in), with how WotC promoted 3E almost everyone that sees it thinks of the bonuses they get in 3E for it and want those bonuses in BG2, a 2E game, because of it.

    Course, the forums that I'm in might just be blurring together for me and it's actually the same people on different forums. . . but I doubt that.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    I don,t remmeber the Sorceror being in 2nd edition... It probably was added in BG2 because of the 3rd edition being close to the release.... Changing the sorceror casting ability to Charisma trought might not be a bad idea i think that stat was very under used in 2nd edition
  • shout27shout27 Member Posts: 89
    I have no problems with opening romances up. . . if there's any requirement that they should set, then it should be a reaction/charisma requirement, that might be modified by race.
  • seekaseeka Member Posts: 53
    @Talvrae Wow that's right, I forgot about her having the baby. But if I remember right, she went for gnomes, too? (forgive my bad memory on this one, I haven't played through her romance in years!) But in the context of children, yes opening the romances doesn't make too much sense. And barring the old romances, in the new ones I'd be happy seeing all requirements removed (and also, I'm not a big fan of Charname having children during the course of the bhaalspawn wars, but that is just my own silly preference)

    For myself, I'd much prefer a romance that wasn't based on a stat or a race, but by the conversation dialogue instead. I like the idea of the romance progressing by how you treat the other individual and how you act instead of having 16 INT or CHA. But like I said, that's just me. Stat requirements make sense if they aren't over the top as some of the mods have done.
  • shout27shout27 Member Posts: 89
    seeka said:

    @Talvrae Wow that's right, I forgot about her having the baby. But if I remember right, she went for gnomes, too? (forgive my bad memory on this one, I haven't played through her romance in years!) But in the context of children, yes opening the romances doesn't make too much sense. And barring the old romances, in the new ones I'd be happy seeing all requirements removed (and also, I'm not a big fan of Charname having children during the course of the bhaalspawn wars, but that is just my own silly preference)

    For myself, I'd much prefer a romance that wasn't based on a stat or a race, but by the conversation dialogue instead. I like the idea of the romance progressing by how you treat the other individual and how you act instead of having 16 INT or CHA. But like I said, that's just me. Stat requirements make sense if they aren't over the top as some of the mods have done.

    Um, yeah, I would make it just a base 10-12 required CHA, to make you decide which is more important to you. The 18 Str or the 14 Str so you have the 12 Cha needed for romances?
  • seekaseeka Member Posts: 53
    @shout27 Like I said, it's just my preference to not have any requirements, a 12 would be pretty reasonable. It would make for chatting up your chosen hottie a lot easier, rp wise.
  • poejjaferspoejjafers Member Posts: 33
    @Lediath
    agreed, it would be good for an elf to romance Viconia
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited July 2012
    Gridian said:

    Some race-class combos would not make much sense in the first place. A halfling barbarian for example or a half-orc wizard. (given the specific bonus/malus of each race). Also, humans are known to be usable in any class, but in none really adept.

    I too think that the choice, however, should be ours. Playing with race/class combinations that are not ideal would definitely add a new level of challenge to the game which might be fun.
    Also, said halfling barbarian would be a kinda cool sight ;)

    I would just point out that Gnome Barbarian is a legitimate choice. So yea.... I would say a gnomish barbarian is far more comical than a halfling.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    edited July 2012
    Well I didn't mean open up ALL the classes to every race, I just meant to give a few more choices so that more people would start choosing other races besides humans, especially if multiplayer is going to be much better this time around, I wouldn't mind a little diversity out there.
    And when it comes to 2E and 3E... I've played pen and paper sparingly so I honestly don't know much about the differences. I don't mean to wonder about what they're doing to "your" game, but I just figure that this game has enough of a mix of both, that it kind of makes its own rules in exactly what they're putting in and what they're taking out.
    I believe that this is just going to be a better mix of not only what the devs had in mind, but also what the player base wants too.

    And Sorcerers are non existant in this game anyways unless if you download a mod or somehow put effort into really placing them in the game...

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