Well, you could start the progression earlier and just have it raise your Strength to 14/15/16/17, only changing your Strength if it's lower than the target value. I'm not sure how that would work--but it would also mean there's no point in giving yourself a strength score higher than, say, 13. Starting the progression at level 15 with 18 means that if you're planning on a melee build you might give yourself a strength of 16 at character creation, which would allow you to be a demi-warrior that just becomes stronger at level 15.
Really, though, I'm just tossing ideas out there. I'm not convinced that the kit needs anything more than it already gets.
Yeah, like that. Sorry, I missed your earlier post.
A part me does think, though, that a potential bonus of +6 to Strength is incredibly significant for level 5. And starting BG2 with an automatic 18 is even more huge--while at the same time it results in the player's options at character creation being somewhat limited by an arbitrary minimum.
More to the point: If you start a new game in BG2 where you begin at level 9 (or even level 7), your Strength is already set to 18 (or 17) when you're rolling ability scores. Which means that you don't get to roleplay the option of having started out as a weakling who suddenly became strong. You might not see that as a problem since it discourages powergaming, but as a kit that means there's a different set of circumstances surrounding character creation depending on whether you're starting in BG1 or BG2.
@Aosaw - You're right, the BG1 and BG2 experience will be different.
In my experience, that's generally true for characters starting in BG2, though. You never get to play through being a low-level weakling, you're starting at the point where classes get their juicy goodies. This is part of why I bought BGEE: because playing through the low levels is also fun.
Like, I'll probably never play a Monk in BG1 because it's just too painful, but playing a Monk in BG2 is pretty sweet, and starting out as a Monk in ToB is flat-out easy mode.
Really, though, I'm just tossing ideas out there. I'm not convinced that the kit needs anything more than it already gets.
Just to be clear, I'm in full agreement. I'm currently playing and enjoying the class in its current incarnation. My suggestion is just to potentially allow for more diverse builds and give the kit more identity from the basic Sorcerer.
Most experienced players are going to give their sorcerers very similar spell lists to everyone elses, as there are usually clear choices of which spells to pick per level. In its current state, the Dragon Disciple doesn't really give a compelling reason to change those spell selections. Giving it a few bonus strength points might.
I understand the devs do not want to create OP combos, and i agree with this. But we're talking about a STR boost applied to a Sorcerer: a class that has 1 ApR, lolthac0 and that will most likely implode if dispelled.
I wouldn't want to complain again on this topic, I am really grateful the staff was able to finally add Sorc (and Monk) kits, and even more for chosing the Dragon Disciple. But check the DD threads: all the people that played Sorcerer over and over find this kit somehow lacking of true bonuses (compared to disadvantages).
I understand the devs do not want to create OP combos, and i agree with this. But we're talking about a STR boost applied to a Sorcerer: a class that has 1 ApR, lolthac0 and that will most likely implode if dispelled.
I wouldn't want to complain again on this topic, I am really grateful the staff was able to finally add Sorc (and Monk) kits, and even more for chosing the Dragon Disciple. But check the DD threads: all the people that played Sorcerer over and over find this kit somehow lacking of true bonuses (compared to disadvantages).
I agree with this, too.
IMHO the thing I want for the Dragon Disciple isn't more power, it's more variety. For example:
- I want the breath weapon to work more than 1/day so I can ignore attack spells like Fireball or Skull Trap and pick something different.
- I want a better melee attack (somehow, either Str or just a flat-out increasing attack bonus) so I have an excuse to use spells like Phantom Blade. I'd like it if the DD bonus were compatible with Tensor's Transformation, too, or if the DD got access to a different spell ("Draconic Apotheosis", perhaps) which gave smaller but more compatible combat bonuses.
Neither of the above would actually make the DD as powerful as a plain vanilla Elf Sorcerer or Kensai > Mage with all the usual spell picks, and that's okay.
- I want the breath weapon to work more than 1/day so I can ignore attack spells like Fireball or Skull Trap and pick something different.
- I want a better melee attack (somehow, either Str or just a flat-out increasing attack bonus) so I have an excuse to use spells like Phantom Blade. I'd like it if the DD bonus were compatible with Tensor's Transformation, too, or if the DD got access to a different spell ("Draconic Apotheosis", perhaps) which gave smaller but more compatible combat bonuses.
They could make a CON-based bonus to the Breath Weapon:
I gotta agree with SpaceInvader here - I don't think that strength bonuses are going to be overpowered for a sorceror type class. You can't multi-class it or dual class into it (so no kensai/RDD).
There are already plenty of ways to get to 18/00 (orge gauntlets) or 19 strength (tome or various belts) for those that want to. And that's where the biggest increases in bonuses apply. Crom Faeyr is generally considered a fairly lacklustre weapon, despite the 25 strength it gives - a gimped sorceror with 25 strength is even less useful.
However I don't think the bonuses should apply at the same rate of 3rd edition (where they all apply in 10 levels) - 25 strength would be a bit overpowered even on a sorceror for BG1. Better to spread the bonuses over 30 levels rather than 10.
Just a thought... Touch-spells depend on melee THAC0, doesn't it? I never use them anyway, but a decent STR-bonus would increase the chance to make them work. This way a Dragon Disciple would be flavored in the way that it could actually succesfully use those spells. The higher HP also support a sorcerer build that could actually bring himself into close combat... I like the idea!
Comments
Really, though, I'm just tossing ideas out there. I'm not convinced that the kit needs anything more than it already gets.
A part me does think, though, that a potential bonus of +6 to Strength is incredibly significant for level 5. And starting BG2 with an automatic 18 is even more huge--while at the same time it results in the player's options at character creation being somewhat limited by an arbitrary minimum.
More to the point: If you start a new game in BG2 where you begin at level 9 (or even level 7), your Strength is already set to 18 (or 17) when you're rolling ability scores. Which means that you don't get to roleplay the option of having started out as a weakling who suddenly became strong. You might not see that as a problem since it discourages powergaming, but as a kit that means there's a different set of circumstances surrounding character creation depending on whether you're starting in BG1 or BG2.
In my experience, that's generally true for characters starting in BG2, though. You never get to play through being a low-level weakling, you're starting at the point where classes get their juicy goodies. This is part of why I bought BGEE: because playing through the low levels is also fun.
Like, I'll probably never play a Monk in BG1 because it's just too painful, but playing a Monk in BG2 is pretty sweet, and starting out as a Monk in ToB is flat-out easy mode.
Most experienced players are going to give their sorcerers very similar spell lists to everyone elses, as there are usually clear choices of which spells to pick per level. In its current state, the Dragon Disciple doesn't really give a compelling reason to change those spell selections. Giving it a few bonus strength points might.
But we're talking about a STR boost applied to a Sorcerer: a class that has 1 ApR, lolthac0 and that will most likely implode if dispelled.
I wouldn't want to complain again on this topic, I am really grateful the staff was able to finally add Sorc (and Monk) kits, and even more for chosing the Dragon Disciple.
But check the DD threads: all the people that played Sorcerer over and over find this kit somehow lacking of true bonuses (compared to disadvantages).
IMHO the thing I want for the Dragon Disciple isn't more power, it's more variety. For example:
- I want the breath weapon to work more than 1/day so I can ignore attack spells like Fireball or Skull Trap and pick something different.
- I want a better melee attack (somehow, either Str or just a flat-out increasing attack bonus) so I have an excuse to use spells like Phantom Blade. I'd like it if the DD bonus were compatible with Tensor's Transformation, too, or if the DD got access to a different spell ("Draconic Apotheosis", perhaps) which gave smaller but more compatible combat bonuses.
Neither of the above would actually make the DD as powerful as a plain vanilla Elf Sorcerer or Kensai > Mage with all the usual spell picks, and that's okay.
Cheers, -- N
15 +1/day
16 +1/day +1 dmg/level
17 +1/day +2 dmg/level
18 +2/day +2 dmg/level
19 +3/day +2 dmg/level
20 +3/day +3 dmg/level
21 +3/day +4 dmg/level
22 +3/day +4 dmg/level
23 +3/day +4 dmg/level
24 +3/day +4 dmg/level
25 +4/day +5 dmg/level
or maybe a CON-based Save vs. Breath...?
There are already plenty of ways to get to 18/00 (orge gauntlets) or 19 strength (tome or various belts) for those that want to. And that's where the biggest increases in bonuses apply. Crom Faeyr is generally considered a fairly lacklustre weapon, despite the 25 strength it gives - a gimped sorceror with 25 strength is even less useful.
However I don't think the bonuses should apply at the same rate of 3rd edition (where they all apply in 10 levels) - 25 strength would be a bit overpowered even on a sorceror for BG1. Better to spread the bonuses over 30 levels rather than 10.