New characters or not?
maverick
Member Posts: 27
Hello everybody, I just want to have your opinion about something I thought. It's about the Baldur's Gate's characters. I guess at least once, when you made a new party, you allready had on mind the characters who will join your party until the end of the game.
For example, allright, I'm a warrior neutral good, so I'm gonna take Khalid and Jaheira (for its healing spells), Imoen (thief abilities), Minsc (good fighter) and Dynaheir (wizard spells). Then in BG2 I'm gonna replace Khalid and Dynaheir by Valygar and Aerie..... well it's an example but I guess it happens a lot when you allready know the game and depending on your alignment, you know what will be your team.
The thing is that I hardly believe they will replace the original characters because of their stories (the best example is Imoen because she is linked with the main character) but do you think that it could be more interesting to have several new characters in this game?
For example, allright, I'm a warrior neutral good, so I'm gonna take Khalid and Jaheira (for its healing spells), Imoen (thief abilities), Minsc (good fighter) and Dynaheir (wizard spells). Then in BG2 I'm gonna replace Khalid and Dynaheir by Valygar and Aerie..... well it's an example but I guess it happens a lot when you allready know the game and depending on your alignment, you know what will be your team.
The thing is that I hardly believe they will replace the original characters because of their stories (the best example is Imoen because she is linked with the main character) but do you think that it could be more interesting to have several new characters in this game?
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Comments
If I had to guess, I would think that the NPC would be like Kivan. Cool player to adventure with, but you probably wont take him/her with you to fight Severok.
Yoshimo in BG2 doesn't cound and game content in spoiler areas can justify why. So in BG2 we have only 1 neutral thief (jan) and 2 good thiefs (nalia, imoen). And wrost, all of them dual/multi class. No pure thief.
BG1 has more options: Imoen and Alora (good), Skie and safana (neutral) and Tiax and Montaron (evil and 2 terrible thiefs with shit status and as in BG2 all multi classes).
Yet, above new NPCs what I URGE TO BE DONE is an deeper work on the already existent NPCs, more banters and history background for them and maybe NPCs specific quests to be done too.
the Players that want to make an evil son of Bhaal should have others way for the party...
Mark. My. Words.
i agree on the evil thief and thief in general notion. there is no need to introduce insane heaps of new characters in bg1, but bg2 has a lack of evil characters and a few kits/classes.
of course, it would be interesting to introduce a few neutral and good with interesting personalities presenting a new view on their alignment. IMO, despite having an old and familiar crew of characters i feel ready to accept new ones into the group as long as they *feel* seamlessly integrated into the game (portrait, voicing, backstory, interaction with existing characters etc.)
in any case, i vote for more characters in bg2, and support what is already planned for bg1
@Bhaaldog How do you like THAT? I can do magics too.
Agua imma tagma tae!
eeah tae froam mahijaaa!
However, others have no reason to be in that particular spot - Viconia could be running through any wilderness, same for Ajantis and Kivan (who are both hunting bandits on maps with few to no bandits as it is), and why Shar-Teel stands around in a forest isn't explained either. Putting them in more logical places would be a better solution than randomizing them.
At least, Kivan should really be changed. His very very short quest deadline is now active. He should be in Larswood or Peldvale; after all, it's the bandit camp he is searching and not High Hedge. That would put him in a place where it is possible to complete his quest in the given time without rushing after meeting him. Everyone else with a quest is somewhere near the map to complete it, except Eldoth, whose timer doesn't trigger right away.
The late game NPCs... I like where they appear via mod (Alora in Gullykin, Quayle on Carnival, not sure where Tiax appears). I never understood why there are "late game NPCs" to begin with. It just seems counterproductive to the existance of a large NPC pool if you can't pick them.
Plus, it would leave only one late game NPC, Skie, who can't be put elsewhere. She would need something really good to make up for it if everyone else was available before Cloakwood. And the "best" she could get would still make her unappealing...
"Best" to make one of all the thieves stand out/worth the wait would be a kit. With her backstory, that would make her a (Shadow)dancer. Every party that made it to BG likely already has a thief to handle traps and locks. A Shadowdancer would lack these two skills in favor of stealth, which is fine for a 6th slot NPC. (Assuming a balanced party of damage dealer, tank, healer, mage, thief.) And here is where it's still sucky: Skie is paired with a prime candidate for 6th slot.
And if Shar-Teel kills Eldoth before getting to the city, you can't get Skie at all. That's even suckier for her than Alora only appearing at night during a quest.
I got Skie for the first time as party thief in my current run, and she's really a pretty good thief. Her skills were not messed up (decent trap/lock, though she needs a few potions here and there) and I never knew she had 18 dex. It's a shame she's not available earlier or without Eldoth in the party. You can get Dynaheir without Minsc, too. Would be nice to have that option.
What does confuse me a bit... I keep reading "Eldoth treats her like shit", but except for the normal dialogue about the quest, he hasn't said anything to her. Is my high charisma preventing something like it would delay/prevent fights?
A chill wind blows through the wood. The sun has risen, its warmth trickles through the leaves but brings little comfort. Instead, you withdraw, huddling in the shadows of the trees. To the North lies the broken body of your guardian. In the West, its stone walls visible through the canopy, you see the fortress of Candlekeep rising on the cliffs beside the sea. Numb, shaking, barely cognisant of your actions, you uncurl from your hiding place and move South towards the road. The road will take you somewhere. It will take you away.
You feel grass and underbrush turn to the cobbles beneath your feet. You remember to breathe. Your eyes alight on the distant walls of your home. You want to go back, and for a moment your feet begin to move, but you stop. Those walls are no longer safe. Yesterday showed you that. Through the fog of memory, you recall that Gorion mentioned an Inn, and two names. You should find that Inn. You should get as far away from here as you can. You should leave this all behind.
Trembling, you begin to walk East, but then your determination falters. A ghost of an old life calls to you, rising above the howl of the wind.
'Heya! It's me Imoen!'
Thereby was Skie's usefulness at an end.
It's a daring business suggestion, but i would like a chance of get Vhalinor as a playable character in baldur's gate (would like it A LOT).
The characters i would find interesting to see in BG from PS:T and woudn't destroy the coherence of the game are Vhalinor, Fall from Grace and dak'kon. Maybe a distant dream TT!
@KidCarnival i have to agree about yeslick, the main quest is specific about his positions (some notes on the game even make references to him (imoen and the new NPCs shoudn't being randomized either in reason of plot pruposes). Xan only have his own lines saying he was imprisoned, but taking the fact he's an early NPC, there's no need to move him.
Alora has lines about wanting to steal something in the hall and being surprised by the party there. That could be easly fixed if we put her on a previous place on the game, and when we reach the Baldur's Gate area of the Hall of Wonders, alora should leave the party to take care of personal "business" pretty much as is done with jaheira in BG2 on the harper quest line. You could meet her again in the hall, triggering the old lines and adding some new lines to give coherence, then she could rejoin the party.
Skie could make a more difficult replacement. If i'm not wrong, at the north site of beregost lie a robbed caravan that was transporting the son of Entar Silvershield, and brother of skie. In fact this is the broken NPC quest of kagain that i believe was never fixed, so... devs... let's work on that anyway. Replace her to that point as a survivor seems pretty reasonable for me, as the party reach baldur's gate area of Silvershield estate, she could as alora, leave the party for some personal business and as the party reach her on the state, that could trigger the old lines of the game along with some new ones to fix any uncoherence.
I just hope BG EE fix the estate npcs reaction to the party, cos it's hard as hell walk there avoiding the guards that turn hostille no matter the answer we gave to them (if skie was previous on the party, maybe the guards could be more friendly to the party/friend's of the young lady).
The thing is, most of us have played through several times. Some of us have played so many times that switching out well used companions for new ones is done simply to make the game new and fresh. I have my stock "Good" party and my stock "Evil" party, but it is always nice to try new configurations like switching out Minsc in favor of Kivan or Imoen for Coran etc... It is one of the great strengths of the game that you can actually effect your gaming experiences by doing this.
However, as a caution, too much effort on this front only cheapens the experience. Having 5 new NPCs would be great. Having 50 would ruin it for me.
Alora could just be in Gullykin, visiting friends or trying to help with the kobold problem. Her hall of wonders quest would simply trigger when entering that part of the city for the first time and then have a 10 day timer to complete. Same as Eldoth, who is insanely patient - you can drag him all through the Ulgoth quests and not once does he remind you of the agreement. The new NPCs work the same way, so it wouldn't feel out of place that she tags along for so long without demanding to do her quest.
I only got Skie once, in my last run, and charname had 21 charisma at the time we got there. The guards almost threw flowers in celebration of our arrival. Not sure what minimum charisma you need for that, but if you borrow Eldoth the cloak and have him cast Friends, I'd guess he'd have enough.