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Please stop fixing questionable bg2 related things.

LarlochLarloch Member Posts: 11
edited April 2013 in Archive (Feature Requests)
A lot of the things you are fixing are fun and unique and are a part of what made BG2 what it was. If you were trying to have an exact copy of BG1 you wouldn't have all these kits and things in the game.

Perfect example is not being able to throw Bounty Hunter traps. I mean come on that was fun and a unique thing for the class. No reason to change that.

I mean I guess it's nice to be able to say you fixed 2000 bugs or whatever but how about you keep the fun stuff that has been in the game for 14 years now in the game and work on real bugs.

Please change that back. Thanks.

Comments

  • IecerintIecerint Member Posts: 431
    Huh? Bounty Hunters are broken now?

    (Broken as in "non-functional.")
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    Hey @Larloch, it'd be great if you could provide more examples of what you mean. What 'fun stuff' has been removed?
  • LarlochLarloch Member Posts: 11
    Looking at my first post I probably could have communicated this issue with a more diplomatic approach. I don't mean to say that good work hasn't been done.

    That said:

    How about Offensive Spin + Improved haste?
    Defensive Spin + Ring of free action

    There are probably all kinds of things that might be viewed as technical bugs but add interesting possibilities. Sure a lot of them don't show their face right now in BG1 but if/when they carry over to BG2 it's going to be a problem and a lot of character combos are going to lose flavor.
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    edited April 2013
    The problem is that while there are some things like that which might be fun, some of them also unbalance the game fairly significantly. We're trying our best to keep the fun there, but we also have to try to keep the game balanced.

    If you post a full list of things that you feel should be left as is, we'll certainly take them into consideration, but game balance and in some cases the original design obviously have to come first.
  • LarlochLarloch Member Posts: 11
    edited April 2013
    I guess I can only go through the bug list and look for class related changes because I can't test BG2 stuff. I see a trend and I just wanted to voice my opinion that it isn't a good one. Basically if it is questionable side with the player in my opinion. I will edit and add to this list as I find things.

    1. - Bounty Hunters should be able to throw traps -

    I see this as a fun unique class feature as Bounty Hunters are the master of traps.

    2. - Wild Mage Destroy Gold -

    Which destroy gold was changed? If it was the 95 roll then that is bad. All like 50+ rolls are on target. Only the low rolls are ever on self. If it was the low roll then that is fine I agree as it even says caster gold. Are you sure this fix does not affect the 95 roll also? Maybe that is why it was the way it was?

    3. - Offensive Spin + Improved Haste -

    I can't think of any other class who has their class feature attacks per round increasing abilities(Grand mastery, Boon of Lathandar, etc) not stack with haste. Defensive spin I give you that one and retract that from my last post as that bug doesn't make any sense. I was more using it as an example.
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    Thanks for the examples!

    We are definitely keeping this sort of thing in mind, and we would love to hear your thoughts once BG2EE is released.

    We really appreciate the feedback--the more we get, the better we can make BGEE and BG2EE.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Larloch said:

    2. - Wild Mage Destroy Gold -

    Which destroy gold was changed? If it was the 95 roll then that is bad. All like 50+ rolls are on target. Only the low rolls are ever on self. If it was the low roll then that is fine I agree as it even says caster gold. Are you sure this fix does not affect the 95 roll also? Maybe that is why it was the way it was?

    It's the 17 roll for wild surges.
    Larloch said:

    3. - Offensive Spin + Improved Haste -

    I can't think of any other class who has their class feature attacks per round increasing abilities(Grand mastery, Boon of Lathandar, etc) not stack with haste. Defensive spin I give you that one and retract that from my last post as that bug doesn't make any sense. I was more using it as an example.

    Offensive spin never stacked with haste because it used haste to work. With the fix it still doesn't stack with haste, but now it no longer nerfs offhand attacks and initiative rounds.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Bounty hunters can't throw traps anymore?
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    I think the idea's been tossed around but I'm pretty sure it's not implemented.
  • LarlochLarloch Member Posts: 11
    It is implemented.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    It was only the bounty hunter special ability "Set special snare" (SPCL414) that had a range of 100 in BG2 (now only 2) which IMO is a kit perk (although not in kit description) that should probably be restored, with a proper realistic range maybe.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited April 2013

    I'm trying to figure out how someone could set a trap, *throw it,* and have it work. Is this C4 wrapped in double-sided tape? "Throwing a trap" reminds me most of Half-Life -style laser trip mines. I.e. totally out of character with a medieval-themed AD&D- based game.

    I think with a little suspension of disbelief, having an extremely agile character (with around 18 DEX) throwing a trap that falls neatly into place is not *that* far-fetched, considering the scenario.

    It's kinda like how Batman ALWAYS hits the exact spot he wants when using his grapling hook gun. And that's a guy who supposedly doesn't have any superpowers.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    then very easily apply the BG2 FixPack,

    Well, most of these fixes are either from BG2FP or will likely get backported to it in a future version. Which is good or bad news depending on whether it's an ZOMG EGREGIOUS BUG or ZOMG FAVE EXPLOIT.

    BG2FP doesn't alter the traps because there's not a lot in BG2 to suggest otherwise, but the spin/wild surge stuff is in. Hell, the wild surge fix has been in since alpha 3 (eight years!) and was confirmed by Bioware.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • LarlochLarloch Member Posts: 11
    edited April 2013
    Ok, it probably didn't help my case to compare Defensive Spin to thrown Bounty Hunter traps. I admit that. With the Bounty Hunter snare there is no complex exploit involved with a specific item combination or whatever. You clicked the ability and it happened. It always happened like that and it survived years of scrutiny from bug fix modders. It's a class feature in the BG2 world.

    Also, I knew I was going to get some bugs wrong because I'm not a master of how the engine works. In this thread I may mention bugs that really are a problem and need to be fixed but that doesn't undermine my entire point or make me a dirty exploiter or mean that some other issue I have brought up wasn't incorrectly changed. There can't be a discussion if I don't bring it up. I just want to make sure class flavor isn't threatened by overzealous bug fixing.
    Post edited by Larloch on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Thanks for your input, @Larloch. We'll try to keep a handle on which things are bugs that need to be fixed and which things are bugs that are "fun". :)
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