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"Teacher" Mod

smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
edited May 2013 in General Modding
Hello Baldur's Gate Community. I'd like to design and create a mod that adds "teachers" to Baldurs Gate 1/BGEE.

I imagine a fighter, after completing the Nashkel mines and entering Chapter 3, goes back to Beregost and besides getting ambushed by Elminster and a little girl also can meet an expert dwarven Fighter. This NPC can teach the player, assuming he meets the prerequisites, to be a berserker, kensai or wizard slayer. This apprentice training will come with a price (say $5k gold) and perhaps a quest or two then Ron the generic fighter will be awarded the appropriate kit.

Imagine Daniel, the monk, could learn the ways of the Sun Soul monk by apprenticing with a wise old man and learning how to wax on and wax off on the vases in the Jovial Juggler then could get back at all the kids that bullied him.

You see where I'm going with this?

I envision a mod where Kits being earned is a feature in BG1. BG2 has strongholds as class specific feature. BG1 could have quests and trainers that allow kits.

In this way, perhaps even it would be possible to "dual into a kit". Say a kitless druid duals into a fighter and could meet the expert dwarven fighter master and could possible gain a fighter kit. If the druid had a kit before dualing then I would not like to allow him to gain a second kit.

Ideally for someone to take use of this mod, I'd like them to start kitless as a generic class.

Challenge: I don't know Weidu, however, I am a general programmer and can look at code and kind of tell what it means usually. I am serious about doing this and willing to put in the work to get it done.

So just throwing this out there and soliciting help and seeing what you all think.

Post edited by smeagolheart on
lunarKozaroZafiroJalilyEudaemoniumCrawleyKidCarnival

Comments

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,396
    Interesting concept. But can all kits be taught like this? Fighter kits do make sense, a fighter can learn to be a berserker by channeling his inner fury, a kensai by learning armorless combat, a wizard slayer by..umm, after a weird magical experiment?

    But how would the game factor those changes retroactively upon gaining a kit? Will a pure thief lose his skill points if he suddenly becomes an assasin? He should have -10 skill points/lvl in order to be an assasin. If not, a player can create an overpowered character by getting lvl 10 as a thief and then becoming an assasin, gaining advantages without any disadvantages.

    Similarly, if a mage suddenly specialises in magic, will the opposed spells be deleted from his spell book? If a ranger becomes an archer will he lose his specialisation in a melee weapon?

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    edited May 2013
    lunar said:

    Interesting concept. But can all kits be taught like this? Fighter kits do make sense, a fighter can learn to be a berserker by channeling his inner fury, a kensai by learning armorless combat, a wizard slayer by..umm, after a weird magical experiment?

    But how would the game factor those changes retroactively upon gaining a kit? Will a pure thief lose his skill points if he suddenly becomes an assasin? He should have -10 skill points/lvl in order to be an assasin. If not, a player can create an overpowered character by getting lvl 10 as a thief and then becoming an assasin, gaining advantages without any disadvantages.

    Similarly, if a mage suddenly specialises in magic, will the opposed spells be deleted from his spell book? If a ranger becomes an archer will he lose his specialisation in a melee weapon?

    @lunar
    Great points.. There must be limitations.. Some kits will not be possible. I had not considered thief skill points... I had considered like a berserker if the fighter had say pips in a ranged weapon, then he would not be able to gain the kit. It may not be doable for the thief class. I'm only looking to do it if you could legally have the current setup for the kit so there would by necessity be a bunch of checks behind the scenes. Even if it's *only* possible for fighters, clerics, druids (maybe), Rangers (I think?) it is a valuable addition to the game. If a Ranger has melee weapon pips he would not be able to train as an archer.

    Again, I'm leaning toward you know the wise old master archetype. Wizard Slayer? "So you want to learn how to battle wizards? Bah, I can teach ye but be warned it's not easy..." If you don't qualify you wouldn't get an option. "I'm sorry but you are too far along in your training to learn what I can teach."

    I would aim not to provide "illegal characters" will too many skill points, weapon pips, etc. These wouldn't get the option as they don't meet the prereqs.

    The illegal characters I'd like to add would be restricted to dual classed getting a kit on second class (if unkitted first class). This could add cheese but I think the added cheese would not be more than is already in the game. I'm not certain about adding a kit to a multiclass...

    lunar
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    edited May 2013
    lunar said:


    Similarly, if a mage suddenly specialises in magic, will the opposed spells be deleted from his spell book? If a ranger becomes an archer will he lose his specialisation in a melee weapon?

    @lunar
    I would be inclined to just restrict it in this case. The wizard teacher would say something like "I'm sorry but you know spells from a circle of magic that directly opposes what you wish to learn. Come back if you erase it from your spell book". that could be made more more flavorful and roleplaying but that's the gist of it.

    lunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,396
    Yeah, thief and bard kits would be difficult since they would require retroactive losing of skill points. (Bard kits lose pickpocket and lore)

    I like your ideas about quirky fighter kit teachers and the like. :-)

    Also there should be all of the mage specialist teachers with their own quirks, illusionist should be tricky to find, necromancer is actually evil and will try to steal your soul once you are trained, diviner is terrified of you if you are evil or actually will pity you if you are good (because he senses the essence within you!) and will train you easily (since it is one of the weakest specialisations, getting it should be easy) etc. Ofcourse you should have the required ability score or the teacher will say you are too unhalthy (con) ugly (cha) clumsy (dex) or weak-willed (wis) to be trained.

    Cool ideas can be found, but such a mod would be very grand-scale and akin to a total conversion mod. Also, such a mod should not allow kits to be chosen at the start of the game, or else there would be no point to try to get them in-game.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    edited May 2013
    lunar said:


    Cool ideas can be found, but such a mod would be very grand-scale and akin to a total conversion mod. Also, such a mod should not allow kits to be chosen at the start of the game, or else there would be no point to try to get them in-game.

    @lunar

    I would not restrict the game choices. The mod would be an addition to Baldur's Gate not a subtraction. Picked a kit already? Okay well maybe next play through you won't if you want to use this feature... I think one teacher per Class would be better. I imagine this type of dialogue tree with the Mage teacher who I shall call Leonard (for no reason)...

    PC: I understand you can train me in the ways of the Art.
    Leonard: Well I've been known to take young magelings as apprentices from time to time. What did you have in mind?

    1) I want to focus on protective spells, I wish to train to be an Abjurer.
    2) I really want to be a Conjurer and produce things magically.
    3) I would like to learn secrets long forgotten and be a Diviner.
    4) I wish to master influence and become an Enchanter.
    5) I want to trick my enemies as an Illusionist.
    6) I would like to be an Invoker to defeat my enemies.
    7) I want to commune with the dead as a Necromancer
    8) I want to be a Transmuter and bend matter to my will.
    9) I'm not interested in training at the moment.
    each branch would have PC, if he met the requirements of not having opposition school spells memorized, possibly do certain things and pay a small training fee (say $5k gold). I'm not trying to have 50 quests or something, just a small addition to add flavor. Maybe no quests are even necessary. I'd not like to reinvent the game just a cool addon.

    lunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,396
    Okay, I see your point. For strictly role playing, it should be cool. But I find it hard to imagine a single arch-magi can teach specialisation for all of the classes. I think he has to be a regular mage to be able to cast all spell schools, but then why did not he specialise in a school, ahh ofcourse for being able to cast and teach from every school, but then again if he is not specialised how can he teach another to be specialised, umm kinda blurry here. ^^

    And quests to gain a class or kit can be downright boring. I remember PST's quest to become a mage. It was long, tedious and boring fetch-and carry stuff, even though the resolution was semi-decent, the quest itself was a drag IMHO.

    Maybe gaining the kit this way will also give the player a magical item suited for their specialisation. For example, an amulet that casts detect illusions 5/day for diviner, a robe of elemental mastery (combined effects of cold, fire, electiricity robes +%40 resist all) for an invoker, a ring of protection +3 usable only by abjurers, a black wand that can animate dead with charges for necromancer-only, a scintilating colorful cloak that can cast mirror image+blur+invisibility+non-detection all together instantly 1/day for an illusionist, a circlet that grants charisma bonus and charm immunity for an enchanter, a staff+2 that protects against petrification and slows the opponent it hits for 1 round with no save for a transmuter, etc.

    francosmeagolheart
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    Interesting concept. But I think it would be much too complex to mod, especially if each kit requires a tutor and especially additional side quests. The game might really bog down with another level of complexity.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    franco said:

    Interesting concept. But I think it would be much too complex to mod, especially if each kit requires a tutor and especially additional side quests. The game might really bog down with another level of complexity.

    @franco I see what you mean but I'd make this optional. If you wanted to pick Kensai as your character kit you wouldn't even have to do anything else other than pick it a character creation (as per normal).

    If you wanted to gain the kit in game you could do this... Or you could pick say a kitless cleric and dual to fighter then gain kensai as the kit.. Sounds neat to me

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    edited May 2013
    lunar said:

    Okay, I see your point. For strictly role playing, it should be cool. But I find it hard to imagine a single arch-magi can teach specialisation for all of the classes. I think he has to be a regular mage to be able to cast all spell schools, but then why did not he specialise in a school, ahh ofcourse for being able to cast and teach from every school, but then again if he is not specialised how can he teach another to be specialised, umm kinda blurry here. ^^

    And quests to gain a class or kit can be downright boring. I remember PST's quest to become a mage. It was long, tedious and boring fetch-and carry stuff, even though the resolution was semi-decent, the quest itself was a drag IMHO.

    Maybe gaining the kit this way will also give the player a magical item suited for their specialisation. For example, an amulet that casts detect illusions 5/day for diviner, a robe of elemental mastery (combined effects of cold, fire, electiricity robes +%40 resist all) for an invoker, a ring of protection +3 usable only by abjurers, a black wand that can animate dead with charges for necromancer-only, a scintilating colorful cloak that can cast mirror image+blur+invisibility+non-detection all together instantly 1/day for an illusionist, a circlet that grants charisma bonus and charm immunity for an enchanter, a staff+2 that protects against petrification and slows the opponent it hits for 1 round with no save for a transmuter, etc.

    Yeah I wouldn't want to make the quests a drag like in PST. I don't want you traveling the length of Faerun or anything. I think the first version of the mod will not feature quests, just lay down the foundation of the mentors and make sure everything works correctly. I do like the ideas of reward trinkets that you mention...

    I'm imagining chapter 3 (so post Nashkel mines), the dwarf fighter in Beregost. A Mage trainer in high hedge (recently in town visiting his buddy Thalantyr maybe). A couple of high level cleric and paladin guys could be outside of The Song of the Morning temple. Ranger and Druid guys could either be in one of the woods areas or possibly first area of Cloakwood (although that is chapter 4).

    Thieves may not be viable due to the aforementioned skill point issues for Assassin and Bounty hunter. Swashbuckler should be possible though.

    Bards should be possible, as you don't pick your lore and pickpocket points, perhaps a trainer could be in or outside the Belching Dragon Tavern meeting his buddy Volo.

    I'm going to hold off on Monks and Sorcerors for now..

    So I'm going to plan to start with 6 or 7 actors, see how it goes with all the internal comparisons and take it from there. Keep it small for now... ;)

    Post edited by smeagolheart on
    lunar
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,090
    I started coding the dialogue today. First weidu mod horray! :)

    lunar
  • bdeonovicbdeonovic Member Posts: 86
    I think the idea sounds interesting but I think you are going about it wrong by putting in too many restrictions. There will be so many ways that this can be broken that i imagine it will turn into something where instead of choosing a kit at character creation you go find a person, do a quest, and then obtain the kit (which I guess is still pretty cool, but your original exposition made it sound cooler).

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