Multiclasses are good for newbs, especially if you're only using a 4 person party (since you gain XP faster).
If you're looking at 3 NPCs plus the protagonist, I'd suggest taking Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid.
They can all be had very early on, and with Imoen's ability to dual into a Mage, your party really has all its bases covered. The protagonist can be a Cleric (or multiclass) to have access to all the spells. A half-Orc Cleric/Thief is an incredibly powerful, although unusual, character.
why would someone pick cleric if you have jaheira? but those npc are quite good not my style with khalid being coward but yeah power wise they are pretty strong and imoen is the best stats wise thief/mage npc
A high charisma charname, which you'd probably want as party leader anyway, won't have any issues with Khalid. Cleric/thief multi would make sense to get access to all divine spells. On low levels, Command can make a lot things a lot easier.
4 Berserkers....that's it...don't need anything else. Even naked (aside from some weapons) they'll wreck the whole game with impunity. Perfect for noobies since it requires no strategy at all beyond, is it a caster/demon? Enrage...if not, beat it to death (use ranged until you've got 2-3 levels under your belt).
For slightly more advanced play, use 4 barbarians....their speed boost is godly both for kiting melee and quickly closing range to kill mages/archers and have the same trick as berserkers (It only misses imprisonment immunity but the str bonus it gives also results in several more hit/damage then a berserker can rival till the end of the saga), which only 2 enemies in the whole saga give a meaningful chance of it happening (Interestingly, there's also 2 scrolls that grant complete immunity to magic...coincidence or design...you decide)).
At higher levels they're basically a F/C in a single class (self-buffs only).
On a whole clerics are flat out superior to druids....druids only get 2 decent spells and are otherwise pretty lack luster. Their summons are situationally decent, but can't hold a candle to the crap a cleric can pull. Druids, much like bards, are missing a lot of umph, since they have a lot of abilities and areas of expertise that simply didn't translate well into BG. Not to mention getting screwed out of basically becoming a near unstoppable Demigod of Nature by lvl 20...and instead become..a highly gimp'd cleric with no real redeeming features.
Meanwhile clerics dominate in terms of attack spells, healing, and self-buffs that can literally turn the caster into an unstoppable Physical God for around 20 rounds or so, repeatedly per day.
Shapeshifter is a waste of a team slot unless it's modded....the Avenger is ok-ish (easily the best druid, but more advanced as well, not at all a noob class)), but still no where near as powerful as a cleric. Even a straight cleric with no kit is plain superior both in melee and casting.
Shapeshifter is a waste of a team slot unless it's modded....the Avenger is ok-ish (easily the best druid, but more advanced as well, not at all a noob class)), but still no where near as powerful as a cleric. Even a straight cleric with no kit is plain superior both in melee and casting.
explain waste of team slot
shapeshifter is the most underrated class like wizard slayer cleric is only better in healing because of greater restoration and revive spells
If you already limit the party to 4 members, and want it to be "easy for beginners", a druid is simply a bad choice. It's not a strong class. It's highly limited with armor and, to a lesser degree, weapon choices. A beginner will not have the impression that it is "easy" to have any druid, vanilla or kit (even Avenger, which is the best one) in the party. In fact, I'm pretty sure most "beginners" will give up on the class long before it would even begin to shine, because it would compare really badly to the other 3 party members, assuming they are "any kind of fighter", "any kind of thief" and "any kind of mage". It will, for a very long time, be the weakest link and make people wish they had taken anything but a druid, so the slot will feel wasted. People won't stick with it anyway until they get to the "good part" - higher level spells and shapeshifting. They'll reroll with a class that is useful for something and not outperformed in everything by the 3 others and make people think "oh, I could have done that quest without the druid".
Sure, on higher levels druids get better. But they are not a beginner class. They are like bards - for players who know how to use them, that they have to be patient and get a reward for it much later, not "around midgame". And that's where I predict most new players would give up on a druid because that's when the late blossomers - squishy mages, not-so-stealthy thieves and not-so-hard-hitting fighters - are all in full bloom and the druid isn't.
NO....the Beastmaster is the most under-rated class....people actually used to like the shapeshifter due to how OP the werewolf and Greater WW seemed...until Late SOA and most of ToB, where it's primary ability was rendered useless due to hitting as +2 and missing a ton of bonuses, and relegated them to full time casting duty (which is flat out inferior to a cleric as only their regular elemental summons (Not the Quest versions, those are absolute garbage cause they hit as +2, instead of +5 like the regular summons) and insect swarms are worth casting (and in that regard, you should've just brought another mage or cleric).
The Avenger is a bit better and at least get a few new spells to fill out their weaker slots....CO is a godawful spell (that +6 save bonus kills it in terms of usability, since it requires Doom, GM, and GD just to have a chance in hell of working against higher level enemies) but it combines well with Doom, so your 1st slots aren't a total waste anymore, Web at 2 is an awesome CC, LB...is..better then their other 3rd level spells...if you can aim it.....the new spells at 4th or above are less nice since that's when Druids finally start getting a decent spell to use at each level. (Still can't hold a Candle to a cleric or mage, but are definitely the only druid worth using..though Totemic is a close 2nd...the lack of decent 1-3 spells is all that really holds them back).
And I disagree....Bards are one of the strongest single classes right out of the gate, due to their ability to use wands, cast arcane spells, get a passable thac0 progression and equipment range and yet still level up the fastest. Their biggest disadvantage is the lack of natural attacks, which once you hit BG2, dual-wielding speed weapons fixes that. Their low thac0 generally doesn't matter as most trash enemies have low AC and vs strong enemies a Tenser's effectively turns you into a fighter (And once you hit that point, even the strongest enemies will die within 2-3 rounds or less (though you will need to swap out 1 speed weapon for a +4 or higher vs those enemies still a respectable 6-8 attacks, gear/kit depending), which under IH can hit between 8-10 attacks, depending on equipment/kit)
NO....the Beastmaster is the most under-rated class....people actually used to like the shapeshifter due to how OP the werewolf and Greater WW seemed...until Late SOA and most of ToB, where it's primary ability was rendered useless due to hitting as +2 and missing a ton of bonuses, and relegated them to full time casting duty (which is flat out inferior to a cleric as only their regular elemental summons (Not the Quest versions, those are absolute garbage cause they hit as +2, instead of +5 like the regular summons) and insect swarms are worth casting (and in that regard, you should've just brought another mage or cleric).
i agree on beastmaster and still disagree on shapeshifter but he may be not easy for newbies
shapeshifter res - can achieve such ridiculous stats that may even put cleric to shame
BUGGED GREATER WEREWOLF
3apr staff of ram - or spear impaler(? soa weapon) without any haste suddenly he hits for 30+ dmg iron skin - is godly spell for tanking hard enemies and there is no omparable spell for cleric
I agree with @KidCarnival. Druid is not easy for beginners. Shapeshifter...maybe. On low levels in BGEE, the Werewolf shape is powerful. But half-way thru BG2 it gets weak and in the end it's almost unusable as a melee fighter. Avenger, while the (in my opinion) best druid kit (except F/D) is quite difficult on low levels with his very limited armor options and weak THAC0... I played an Avenger and I'd say it was even more difficult to survive than my Assassin or Monk on low levels (1-5). Then, they get better.
For an easy party, I'd still rather recommend Clerics. They are tougher, easier and have better kits (no downsides) than Druids.
...Ironskins is one of the worst spells in the game, (yes it's a great DRUID SPELL...cause they otherwise don't get hardly anything worth note beyond their swarm and summon spells)....it's a stoneskin that takes LITERALLY 10x longer to cast (speed 10) and is otherwise identical, meaning you're only going get to cast it once, assuming you get the chance to buff pre-battle, and it blocks 5 hits...no matter how strong or weak they are, unlike a mage who could instant cast stoneskin while wearing just the amulet of power, and even speed 1 is tolerable. Ironskins is mildly useful to a F/D, since they enough enough attacks to potentially kill or heavily wound the target before it expires, but a plain druid does not.
Meanwhile a cleric can achieve 25 str/dex/con under DUHM (6 more str, and 3 more Dex then Greater werewolf form), dealing max damage from Righteous Might), 25% damage reduction with AoF (+20% more if using DoEH off-hand) which combined with their regen spell can heal them just as fast or faster then they can take damage (which also has to get past their extremely high AC levels), their cleric exclusive Shield of Archons (basically a divine spell trap, wrecks Demi-liches), they level A LOT faster then most classes except for 8-10 (which the druids leveling rate crashes and burns at 11) and get way more useful attack spells to complement their self-buffs, not to mention Chaotic Commands for the ultimate blanket protection buff, restoration, raise deads, negative plane protection. And unlike druids can cast harm...which is a no-save I-WIN spell, especially if they're under the effects of Righteous Might and aren't going to miss, except on a 1.
Using the dispel thing is an exploit and isn't something people should be teaching noobs.
I've taken a Shapeshifter through the entire saga, and then Neverwinter Nights 1 (and went for True Shifter in the expansion). On high levels, druids absolutely kick ass. But somewhere in midgame, they reach another "meh" phase. You need to know what to do at that point and when to switch strategies (basically when to let go of "OMG werewolf" and focus on casting more); more than with other classes that just get stronger in what they do from the start. For a beginner, a sudden role change isn't "easy".
The same can be said for bards - their strength is that they are versatile and can have very different roles in a party. It's not obvious what they are "meant" for, which is the whole point. You need to know what you want them to be and what profs, stats, skills, stuff you need for that. For a beginner, it's "easy" if a class is more static and tells you right away "meant to melee", "meant to cast from the back row" or something clearly defined.
I doubt anyone can still count as a "beginner" after playing through BG1 - there has to be some knowledge by the time BG2 starts. So there's no real "advice for beginners" anymore and a guide is most helpful if it focusses on BG1 and classes that will be strong from level 1 on. If you recommend a party of "shapeshifter - wizard slayer - monk - F/M/T", you have a decent party for "much later" and your main guidance is "na, stick with it, I know it sucks, but 10 levels from now, it will kick ass", most people will say "screw this guide" long before they finish BG1 and any of the characters becomes good.
I doubt anyone can still count as a "beginner" after playing through BG1
you don't know what i have seen from people that played entire BG2
There is "beginner" and there is "hopeless case". That's a difference. Someone who somehow n00bs his way through the saga and doesn't learn anything about classes/profs/and-so-on has to ignore it on purpose.
I doubt anyone can still count as a "beginner" after playing through BG1
you don't know what i have seen from people that played entire BG2
There is "beginner" and there is "hopeless case". That's a difference. Someone who somehow n00bs his way through the saga and doesn't learn anything about classes/profs/and-so-on has to ignore it on purpose.
Depends on the person. My good friend played BG2 and ToB at least once, but never actually touched BG1. Now, he is contemplating buying BGEE and give it a try. He WILL be surprised - at least a bit. Lower levels play differently than high levels and are (arguably) more difficult. But he is not a hopeless case and he will manage.
Actually starting in BG2 is pretty bad, because spells that were awesome in BG1, generally suck in BG2, barring some exceptions that stay strong contenders the whole series, while spells that are reasonable slot uses in BG2 are completely worthless until level capped in BG1....but....most nublets fail to realize how strong buff/debuff spells are and just load up on fireballs and MM, and such, and then abuse the hell out of resting (you can still do that in BG1 of course, but much less slots to work with). (I can't really throw stones.....coming from a plethora of RPGs where mages are weapons of mass destruction, I attempted to play BG the same.......yeah...it doesn't work that well...you can do alright-ish, but in terms of getting the most bang for your buck, buffs destroy direct damage, and a single placed CC can turn certain death into a cake walk.) Summons are a bit more advanced, since they're generally fragile, until you get Mord Swords, but some of them pack a PUNCH, and if manually controlled and protected can also cause massive amounts of damage...and if all else fails, a distraction as you kite an enemy with them.
Comments
If you're looking at 3 NPCs plus the protagonist, I'd suggest taking Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid.
They can all be had very early on, and with Imoen's ability to dual into a Mage, your party really has all its bases covered. The protagonist can be a Cleric (or multiclass) to have access to all the spells. A half-Orc Cleric/Thief is an incredibly powerful, although unusual, character.
For slightly more advanced play, use 4 barbarians....their speed boost is godly both for kiting melee and quickly closing range to kill mages/archers and have the same trick as berserkers (It only misses imprisonment immunity but the str bonus it gives also results in several more hit/damage then a berserker can rival till the end of the saga), which only 2 enemies in the whole saga give a meaningful chance of it happening (Interestingly, there's also 2 scrolls that grant complete immunity to magic...coincidence or design...you decide)).
At higher levels they're basically a F/C in a single class (self-buffs only).
Meanwhile clerics dominate in terms of attack spells, healing, and self-buffs that can literally turn the caster into an unstoppable Physical God for around 20 rounds or so, repeatedly per day.
shapeshifter
avenger
are great at fighting and casting
shapeshifter is the most underrated class like wizard slayer
cleric is only better in healing because of greater restoration and revive spells
In fact, I'm pretty sure most "beginners" will give up on the class long before it would even begin to shine, because it would compare really badly to the other 3 party members, assuming they are "any kind of fighter", "any kind of thief" and "any kind of mage". It will, for a very long time, be the weakest link and make people wish they had taken anything but a druid, so the slot will feel wasted. People won't stick with it anyway until they get to the "good part" - higher level spells and shapeshifting. They'll reroll with a class that is useful for something and not outperformed in everything by the 3 others and make people think "oh, I could have done that quest without the druid".
Sure, on higher levels druids get better. But they are not a beginner class. They are like bards - for players who know how to use them, that they have to be patient and get a reward for it much later, not "around midgame". And that's where I predict most new players would give up on a druid because that's when the late blossomers - squishy mages, not-so-stealthy thieves and not-so-hard-hitting fighters - are all in full bloom and the druid isn't.
The Avenger is a bit better and at least get a few new spells to fill out their weaker slots....CO is a godawful spell (that +6 save bonus kills it in terms of usability, since it requires Doom, GM, and GD just to have a chance in hell of working against higher level enemies) but it combines well with Doom, so your 1st slots aren't a total waste anymore, Web at 2 is an awesome CC, LB...is..better then their other 3rd level spells...if you can aim it.....the new spells at 4th or above are less nice since that's when Druids finally start getting a decent spell to use at each level. (Still can't hold a Candle to a cleric or mage, but are definitely the only druid worth using..though Totemic is a close 2nd...the lack of decent 1-3 spells is all that really holds them back).
And I disagree....Bards are one of the strongest single classes right out of the gate, due to their ability to use wands, cast arcane spells, get a passable thac0 progression and equipment range and yet still level up the fastest. Their biggest disadvantage is the lack of natural attacks, which once you hit BG2, dual-wielding speed weapons fixes that. Their low thac0 generally doesn't matter as most trash enemies have low AC and vs strong enemies a Tenser's effectively turns you into a fighter (And once you hit that point, even the strongest enemies will die within 2-3 rounds or less (though you will need to swap out 1 speed weapon for a +4 or higher vs those enemies still a respectable 6-8 attacks, gear/kit depending), which under IH can hit between 8-10 attacks, depending on equipment/kit)
shapeshifter res - can achieve such ridiculous stats that may even put cleric to shame
BUGGED GREATER WEREWOLF
3apr staff of ram - or spear impaler(? soa weapon) without any haste suddenly he hits for 30+ dmg
iron skin - is godly spell for tanking hard enemies and there is no omparable spell for cleric
Shapeshifter...maybe. On low levels in BGEE, the Werewolf shape is powerful. But half-way thru BG2 it gets weak and in the end it's almost unusable as a melee fighter.
Avenger, while the (in my opinion) best druid kit (except F/D) is quite difficult on low levels with his very limited armor options and weak THAC0...
I played an Avenger and I'd say it was even more difficult to survive than my Assassin or Monk on low levels (1-5). Then, they get better.
For an easy party, I'd still rather recommend Clerics. They are tougher, easier and have better kits (no downsides) than Druids.
Meanwhile a cleric can achieve 25 str/dex/con under DUHM (6 more str, and 3 more Dex then Greater werewolf form), dealing max damage from Righteous Might), 25% damage reduction with AoF (+20% more if using DoEH off-hand) which combined with their regen spell can heal them just as fast or faster then they can take damage (which also has to get past their extremely high AC levels), their cleric exclusive Shield of Archons (basically a divine spell trap, wrecks Demi-liches), they level A LOT faster then most classes except for 8-10 (which the druids leveling rate crashes and burns at 11) and get way more useful attack spells to complement their self-buffs, not to mention Chaotic Commands for the ultimate blanket protection buff, restoration, raise deads, negative plane protection. And unlike druids can cast harm...which is a no-save I-WIN spell, especially if they're under the effects of Righteous Might and aren't going to miss, except on a 1.
Using the dispel thing is an exploit and isn't something people should be teaching noobs.
The same can be said for bards - their strength is that they are versatile and can have very different roles in a party. It's not obvious what they are "meant" for, which is the whole point. You need to know what you want them to be and what profs, stats, skills, stuff you need for that. For a beginner, it's "easy" if a class is more static and tells you right away "meant to melee", "meant to cast from the back row" or something clearly defined.
I doubt anyone can still count as a "beginner" after playing through BG1 - there has to be some knowledge by the time BG2 starts. So there's no real "advice for beginners" anymore and a guide is most helpful if it focusses on BG1 and classes that will be strong from level 1 on. If you recommend a party of "shapeshifter - wizard slayer - monk - F/M/T", you have a decent party for "much later" and your main guidance is "na, stick with it, I know it sucks, but 10 levels from now, it will kick ass", most people will say "screw this guide" long before they finish BG1 and any of the characters becomes good.
This way you'll have access to all cleric and Druid spells in one character.
and i knew the mechanics because i played BG1 like 2 times before BG2 but mr. undead was just too much for my 4th level spells and knowledge
My good friend played BG2 and ToB at least once, but never actually touched BG1. Now, he is contemplating buying BGEE and give it a try.
He WILL be surprised - at least a bit. Lower levels play differently than high levels and are (arguably) more difficult. But he is not a hopeless case and he will manage.
only hp are little lower in bg1 but that can be avoided by leveling fighters first
MM is good
melf's acid arrow good
glidder dust good mirror image
fire ball slow haste
greater malision emotion confusion
they were all great in bg2
and still great in bg1