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The Minimal Reload 'Random Game' Challenge (Lem's version) - Revised! (warning: spoilers!)

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  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    edited May 2013
    franco said:

    Doing Bassilus at level 1 has got to be murder. Level 1 and no mage sounds almost like suicide. I wonder what the conversation line is to remove the undead there. Do you as the player have the option of what level you will be when facing this encounter?

    Would it help in this kind of situation to go through the conversation, but then when Basillus turns red to run away out of sight? He must be using up some spells. You can try taking a walk in the other direction and eventually come back when some of his spells and buffs may have worn off.

    You mentioned the Ankheg armor in Beregost. I'm pretty sure it wasn't there when I played original BG. How do you get it in BGEE?

    Good luck. I'm waiting to hear how your run continues with that party. The good thing is that you are trying to play the game with new obstacles rather than boring pre planned meta gaming, so it becomes a new experience.

    You can indeed turn Bassilus hostile and run far/fast enough that he doesn't successfully pursue. But unless there is some creature allied with your party upon which he may exhaust his spells, that isn't much use. For example: to charm as many as possible of the three hobgoblins to the east and have them attack Bassilus, such that Bassilus uses up his spells on them (or most of his spells). Not an option now, though, as I already dispatched them.

    And sorry, I should have posted in the thread title that there are going to be spoilers in this thread. (I've now fixed that.) Re: the ankheg armor, apologies for including a spoiler in a thread that wasn't identified as containing spoilers, but it will be posted soon. Oops! There are going to be so many spoilers eventually that it will be cumbersome to place them all in tags, so I've just marked the title with a warning.

    I should have clarified that I am meta-gaming (I often do not). But in this game, in a way, it almost feels like I'm not meta-gaming because I'm trying to create new challenges with unusual PCs/parties. So I'm often trying some tactics that I know are risky bets. (Versus the 'sure things' that I do all the time.) All in order to create a bit more tension and have more fun with the game.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    lolien
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    edited May 2013
    Re: a feeling of tension to this minimal reload design, I feel it worth observing that it's definitely more nailbiting when playing a strict no-reload game. Here, just knowing that you may reload if/when the PC dies gives you the freedom to take more risks. It's not nearly as tense as when the game ends if the PC dies.

    But I felt like the most prominent part of this design is the offbeat tactical challenges that a random PC/party poses. So I'm running with that, and trying to enjoy it all-out, moreso than trying to turn in an unbeatable time via the speed game aspect of the challenge. As I'm choosing to play it, that means taking advantage that I can reload upon PC death, and playing higher risk strategies. In contrast, for a strict no-reload game (such as we have going in this challenge) that is more geared towards completing the game as swiftly as possible, it's all about minimizing risk! So I do sort of feel like these two versions complement one another somewhat nicely in that respect.

    lolien
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    @Lemernis

    What do you think about adding an option to use more than one randomly generated PC in place of one or more NPC companions (multi-solo option)?

    Perhaps for both this and the no-reload challenges?

    I was thinking you could still generate your 5 random characters - and choose your 5 companions - and then choose your team from either one or both of those lists?

    With your new rules for optionally replacing dead NPCs with new rolls perhaps you could include any of the leftover PC options as well in your choice options (of course they would not be leveled like the NPCs would be so probably would only be a choice very early on).

    franco
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @Wanderon. I think we may be going a little far afield here from @Lemernis intention to test out this relatively random NPC system. But I am interested in what you're getting at, though I need a little clarification. Would what you are proposing require going through the Multiplayer system in order to get more than one PC into the game?

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    franco said:

    @Wanderon. I think we may be going a little far afield here from @Lemernis intention to test out this relatively random NPC system. But I am interested in what you're getting at, though I need a little clarification. Would what you are proposing require going through the Multiplayer system in order to get more than one PC into the game?

    Yes - commonly one begins the game in Multiplayer - adds however many PCs he wishes - then saves the game and moves or copies the save to single player to avoid having to deal with the unnecessary buttons etc in the multiplayer GUI.

  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    @wanderon Yeah, I think an all random multiplayer party has a lot more potential for fun, because statistically you are more likely to get wildly unbalanced parties. Also, the really underused classes mostly don't have NPCs, so you are likely to get a lot more new toys to play with.

    Still, on minimum reload I see the NPCs thing. Largely because you can leave the sword coast littered with your friends corpses.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    I love the idea of either an entirely random generated party of PCs or multiple PCs (however many) plus NPCs. Are there any particular wrinkles to it that you guys can envision?

    I guess for a full party of PCs it could be as simple as no-reload or minimal reload.

    I think I'll keep this particular challenge in this thread basically as it is, except maybe for tweaks. But I always enjoy seeing new ideas generated for how to play the game.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I'm going to roll up 5 random PCs and choose 5 random NPCs and see what it looks like and decide from there I think - if I come up with an interesting enough mix I may take it a couple steps further and make it an RP "let the fates decide" sort of run...

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    edited May 2013
    @Wanderon There is so much hybridization possible with all of this, as various elements can be cobbled together in different ways to suit individual taste.

    A random generated party of six PCs (one of which is Gorion's ward) could be incredibly immersive (and difficult!)--especially if it is roleplayed, meta-gaming is avoided, and dice are used for many decisions.

    As I approach it, a full commitment to roleplaying basically establishes no-meta-gaming as a standard. Decisions are then made for each character based only on what we may assume they can reasonably know of their world. The characters themselves presumably have no idea what lies around each bend in the game, or where various powerful items are located, etc., even if we do as players. And then beyond that the player is left to imagine what each character would do according to his or her alignment (however each player might appreciate the alignment system), bio, and banters/scripted interactions with other NPCs. And then how a character reacts to anything in particular can also stem from past decisions, actions, and the interpersonal relationships that get woven in the course of the game--and of course the results of dice rolls as well. So it is all surprisingly dynamic.

    The way I've been doing it, I determine actions first according to roleplaying. But if I'm not sure how a character might react, I roll dice or turn a card. And some things that would be according to chance I also use dice/cards for, such as whether an Easter egg might be discovered, could someone in the party detect this or that, which direction to travel when exploring, etc.

    But I would expect players will likely come up with their own nuances for how to use such a gaming method. Whatever make the game most fun for the player!

    Even better if you journal such a game in a first person narrative. But be advised that takes waaay more time to complete a game. You'll be at it for at least several months. At the very least I would suggest recording notes as to how characters react to various things, if not journaling the game in first person prose.

    Anyway, a custom party of six (either randomly generated or planned) would be off the chain. Love it. (Wish I'd thought of it!)

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    @Wanderon Oh, also--are you thinking strict no-reload for your party of six randomly generated PCs? Or minimal reload (eg, only if Gorion's ward dies)?

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    @Lemernis - I made a start last night - decided on the group and gathered the PC portion of my party and left Candlekeep with them - I posted the group & overall concept I will be playing with them in the No Reload challenge thread because I'm not planning to make it a speed run too. I plan to journal to some degree - enough to tell of their journey without spending as much time writing as playing.

    I struggle a bit with the metagaming aspect - for most things like pre-buffing or otherwise preparing ahead of time for encounters I do quite well at giving the enemy every opportunity to kick my patootie but when it comes to gathering the best items to outfit the group I have a hard time walking away from them. For the most part I rationalize that playing a random group in a no reload setting is enough challenge and if the party can grab the best appropriate arms or armor because of player knowledge that's OK with me.

    The group actually turned out to be VERY strong melee wise and will be doing an evil playthrough which should be interesting as well.

    Here's the gist of the party from the other thread:

    Meet Elaver's Marauders:

    Elaver Darksbane M LE Half-elf Cleric of Talos 16/18/14/8/17/10 sling* mace*

    Xyrella Bearcharger F NE Elf Beserker 18-95/19/17/8/8/12 Longsword** Katana* Longbow*

    Caidiana Monsterheart F CE Half-orc Barbarian 19/18/19/7/7/8 Halbred** Longbow**

    Jamgold Soldshort M CN Halfling Beserker 17/19/18/10/9/12 Sling* Scimitar** TWS*

    Started the team in Multi-player then moved it to Single and we are about to leave Candlekeep on our great adventure - I suspect we will make our way to Sharteel ASAP - to get her dualed to thief right away and then grab Edwin to complete the team.

    I will RP the group as evil - won't over metagame - and if I can't decide what the party/team member might do in a situation I'll use cards or dice to make a decision.

    I plan to keep the rep no lower than 5-ish (but probably no higher than 12) to keep those flaming fist pansies off our butts to give the group a chance to gain some notoriety and have some fun before that disintegrating hand shows up and spoils it...

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Lemernis said:

    @Wanderon Oh, also--are you thinking strict no-reload for your party of six randomly generated PCs? Or minimal reload (eg, only if Gorion's ward dies)?

    No reload is the plan but depending on how far we get before our demise I may decide to continue as a minimal reload - or I made myself a "restart" save just out of Candlekeep and if we die (especially early on) I may just reload that and start over...

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    @Wanderon How does one save a MP game as SP? I have a MP custom party prepared for another game (archived MP game starting at Candlekeep), but after all these years I have forgotten how to do that.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Lemernis said:

    @Wanderon How does one save a MP game as SP? I have a MP custom party prepared for another game (archived MP game starting at Candlekeep), but after all these years I have forgotten how to do that.

    Make your MP save then from outside the game copy it from the MPsave folder to the save folder.

    I'm running Windows 7 and the save folders are in documents in the Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition folder.

  • TaylorTwerkTaylorTwerk Member Posts: 79
    edited May 2013
    well I died on my last run of a elf shapeshifter but here we go again and I think this party is a winner!
    9324
    pick gender
    elf
    archer
    neutral evil (i'll just roll neutral good and become fallen at the first given oppurtunity)

    kivan
    imoen
    khalid
    montaron
    Viconia

    Will Montaron and Khalid try and kill each other without Jaheira and Xzar present?

    Other than not haveing a straight mage I like this party, almost balanced ammount of front liners and ranged. lets see how fast it takes me to die

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    edited May 2013
    Just to avoid possible confusion, with this challenge you can reload if your main dies. (But only the PC, though, or if there's a technical glitch).

    But as you're demonstrating, it can just as easily be played strict no-reload. Which I like!

    Btw, there is a strict random party no-reload game challenge here. But the rules are actually different between that challenge and this one, above and beyond the fact that that one is strict no-reload and this one is 'minimal' reload. With this challenge you can swap out NPCs after you assemble a party of six by rolling new ones. With the strict no-reload version you can use only the ones you first roll. Anyway, for what it's worth I think it's neat that someone is taking this challenge and making it strict no-reload. We're just having creative fun with the game to begin with.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,286
    edited May 2013

    well I died on my last run of a elf shapeshifter but here we go again and I think this party is a winner!
    9324
    pick gender
    elf
    archer
    neutral evil (i'll just roll neutral good and become fallen at the first given oppurtunity)

    kivan
    imoen
    khalid
    montaron
    Viconia

    Will Montaron and Khalid try and kill each other without Jaheira and Xzar present?

    Other than not haveing a straight mage I like this party, almost balanced ammount of front liners and ranged. lets see how fast it takes me to die

    Not sure if a fight will break out between Monty and Khalid, without their paired partners. But if you start seeing them argue from time to time, I would imagine there's a chance they may eventually. Reportedly if the designated party leader (top slot for their portraits on the upper righthand) has decent Cha, the fight never breaks out anyway. Only if the party leader has low Cha will the fight errupt, or so I'm told. (A low Cha leader results in lower party morale.)

    You could either 'round up' NE to LG or become Fallen, whatever seems most fun.

    You have a good party there!

    Re: lack of a mage, you could dual Imoen to Mage at level 2 if you're comfortable having Monty handling all the Thieving skills.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • TaylorTwerkTaylorTwerk Member Posts: 79
    Lemernis said:




    Re: lack of a mage, you could dual Imoen to Mage at level 2 if you're comfortable having Monty handling all the Thieving skills.

    I think I'll make imoens lockpick or traps whichever is higher when I get her then dual class to mage. I think my charname might need 16 CHA plus algernons cloak (kill him to get some fallen rep :P) since I not only have montaron and khalid to worry about I forgot about viccy and kivans distaste for eachother. I will have a lot of fun with this party.

  • karpaszkarpasz Member Posts: 74
    Interesting! I usually random generate chars when rp:ing (p&p or pc-games) when stuck at char creation.
    Alright, here's what I rolled:

    Char 1. Male, pick race, druid, pick kit
    TN, 2 ab rolls, male 2
    Dorn
    Edwin
    Baeloth
    Xzar
    Tiax

    Char 2. Female, half-orc, fighter, pick kit
    TN, 9 ab rolls, pick vo
    Edwin
    Shar-Teel
    Montaron
    Coran
    Quayle

    Char 3. Male, dwarf, kensai
    LN, 5 ab rolls, male 5
    Dorn
    Ajantis
    Alora
    Faldorn
    Garrick

    Char 4. Male, human, Dark Moon Monk
    LN/LE, 0 ab rolls, male 6
    Ajantis
    Rasaad
    Faldorn
    Xzar
    Xan

    Char 5. Male, elf, Illusionist
    CG, 1 ab roll, male 1
    Imoen
    Quayle
    Jaheira
    Dynaheir
    Montaron

    Gee... what to pick. Didn't know Baeloth was recruitable until now! lol

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Just want to share my frustration from my previous failed bg2 solo no-reload game. I took out the beholder lair, the mind flayers and various ambushes in the temple district sewer, but got defeated by a single kobold hold person spell!

    The Child of Bhaal, who extinguished powerful villains, was ruined by a pack of lowly kobolds!

    Wanderon
  • karpaszkarpasz Member Posts: 74
    edited July 2013
    Died too many times I think. Going with no-reload instead.
    Finished MQ til Cloakwood 70 days sumething. :) Normal D&D Rules, heal on rest.

    lolien
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