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Sensible creature classifications.

TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,323
Poking around in NI I noticed that several of creatures have iffy classifications. Dread wolves and wraith spiders for instance are supposedly undead variations of wolves and spiders however they are classified as monster rather than undead. The demon knight, who is a self proclaimed undead creature, is classified as humanoid. The vampiric wolf is classified as humanoid (huh?). Elementals are inconsistently monster or giant humanoid. Wizard's eye is an animal (huh?). etc.

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to sort through this mess to make some of these make more sense? This stuff does have an impact on the game actually. Things that use eff files (that would be any item or spell that takes into account race (like the harrower and charm person/mammal)) depend on this sort of thing to function properly. I know this could be considered a slippery slope but it bothers me when the manual says a dread wolf is undead and it really isn't.

EudaemoniumUainereedmilfamKougaArchaosNifftIecerintNeonfiskfrancoParystypo_tillyelminsterMortiannaGodmarTJ_HookerJamesMoomintroll

Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,323
    Well ok. So dread wolves aren't in the manual. They are still supposed to be undead though...

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Eudaemonium
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Samus said:

    Seems like a good idea!

    Seconded!

    [Deleted User]
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,323
    Hmm. Maybe I should be the one to fix this... If I have the time and inclination some day I may go through all the classifications and suggest changes to the devs.

    francoParystypo_tilly
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    @Tresset It's not like it would take a whole lot of time to do this in one's own game. Like you said, it's a simple reclassification of the race coding. I use DLTCEP and have found it really handy when I find little bugs or things that I don't like. For example, I find the icon for Harrower to be bland and boring since it's the same icon as the Longsword +1, so I went in and found an unused sword icon that I liked and assigned it. If they're not going to do, I will! ^.^

    elminsterlunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited July 2013
    Some of this may be designer choice to prevent anti-undead stuff making some battles easy. If a cleric can turn Demonknight, or if protection from undead scrolls grant complete protection from them they wouldn't be that challenging. If a creature is coded as undead he is vulnerable to many things:turning, protection from undead scroll, repulse dead/false dawn/sol's searing orb/sunray spells, disruption weapons, etc.

    Liches and demiliches are vulnerable to these in bg2, and the disrupting weapons are the bane to them. Turning also works wonders but then again you need a maxed-out epic level single classed cleric to turn Kangaxx.

    Tresset
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,323
    Ehh maybe I would leave the demonknight alone then. Or change him to monster or something...

    lunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited July 2013
    Demonknight is a wrong word, I think, the creature is a Deathknight, like the popular Lord Soth character in Ravenloft books. (Ofcourse Lord Soth is much more powerful, just as Lord Strahd is to a normal vampire)

    http://www.lomion.de/cmm/deatknig.php

    Here, nearly all abilities make sense and are similiar to the in-game demonknight we have. And the creature file of the demonknight is named Deathkn or something similiar.

    It spesificly states that Deathknights, while being undead, can not be turned. Thus making it not undead type must be a councious choice by the devs. Same is true for the Skeleton warrirors: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/skelwarr.php they are immune to turning so undead type is not appropriate for in-game mechanics.

    Dread wolves are undead, yes, but they have other special abilities which are not implemented in the game. http://www.lomion.de/cmm/wolfdrea.php For example, they regenerate like a troll and have a killer rotting disease akin to a mummy's touch. That's why they are worth 650 xp, same as a ghast, but in the game a ghast is always much more powerful due to its special attacks (paralyse, weakening disease) and general more viciousness (more attacks/round, better initiative)

    Mortianna
  • 10thLich10thLich Member Posts: 99
    edited July 2013
    Due to using the BG2 engine, there's another option if one wants to make a creature immune to turn undead.

    Effect # 297 Immune to Turn Undead

    By using this instead of another race, one would get the following for example:

    Skeleton Warriors are still unable to be turned, but are affected by all other anti-undead measures.

    10th

    lunar
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    10thLich said:

    Due to using the BG2 engine, there's another option if one wants to make a creature immune to turn undead.

    Effect # 297 Immune to Turn Undead

    By using this instead of another race, one would get the following for example:

    Skeleton Warriors are still unable to be turned, but are affected by all other anti-undead measures.

    10th

    That's very insightful, yes this may be the best implementation and fix for such creatures.

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