Skip to content

A Suggested Rule for Limited PC Reloads in Challenge Games

francofranco Member Posts: 507

On this forum over the last year there have been several threads with proposed Challenge games. These tend to set certain conditions that make the game a bit more difficult and uncertain.

One requirement we often see in the challenge games is that they are to be played as "No Re-Load" or "Minimal Re-Load". Now the No-Load game means just that. When Charname dies, game over. Sayonara (a pretty tough rule). You note how far you got and start a new game. In the Minimal-Reload Game, you may reload but only for Charname, and for no other reason. If the encounter was a disaster. Then it stays a disaster, and you can come back when you're better prepared for it. It's a hard knock life.

I'm going to suggest a Reload Rule for these games which might add an additional level of interest, since it falls actually between the two types of Reload rules that are often seen and it has some of the texture of a fantasy RPG.

The PC Limited Reload Rule
It is like a Minimal Reload Rule since you reload only when your PC dies.
But, there is a limit to the number of PC reloads, based on CON.

CON ................ # of PC Reloads

3-8................. 0
9-11............... 1
12-13 ............ 2
14-15 ............ 3
16-17 ............ 4
18-19 ............ 5
20+ .............. unlimited*

You can also apply some interesting Optional Rules:

Optional Rules

1. Hit Points: If you had to reload since reaching the last level, then on the next level up keep
game on "Core" difficulty. Charname will usually not get max hit points.

2. Critical Failure: Whenever you reload, you must avoid a critical failure or end the game.
Critical Failure: 1 on a 1D20 die.
Critical Failure: After 3 reloads, 1 or 2 on a 1D20 die.
*Critical Failure: After 6 reloads, 1, 2 or 3 on a 1D20 roll.

3. Special NPC rule: If you feel you can handle the level of complexity, or enjoy this kind of thing,
apply the CON based rule above to NPC resurrections also. That might add to
your adrenaline flow near the end of the game. (Please note that this rule would apply to
NPC resurrections. There would still be no reloads permitted for NPCs).

There it is. I just wanted to make this suggestion so that when members undertake or moderate a challenge game they might have a third option between No Reload or Minimal Reload that they might consider to be interesting. Feel free to tweak these rules, change the number of reloads, etc, ignore it or beat it to death.
Post edited by franco on


  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Moving this to our fancy new "Challenges and Playthroughs" subforum!
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @Dee or other moderator.

    Would you consider putting this older thread of mine into the new "Challenges and Playthroughs" subforum? It looks like it would be more appropriate there.

    "Suggestions for a randomized npc recruit role (Ciccio's version)"
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Done, but in the future, you can move your own threads by editing the topic post and then changing the category in the dropdown box. :)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,309
    Looks interesting! I've got too many irons in the fire atm to give it a try in the near future, but I may eventually have a go with it!
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    If you did this, wouldn't you just make sure you started with an 18 constitution, and hope to find both tomes?

    I think it would be simpler to just say "5 reloads max, and only if Charname dies." I kind of do that anyway in every rpg I play. More than 5 reloads feels like a failed game to me, and I just want to start over with a new toon at that point.
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    edited July 2013
    @belgarathmth. I see your point, and I think you have adopted a good way to deal with reloads.

    If you view this rule in the context of an approach that I've been taking to try to design a challenge type game, I think you'll see my purpose. I've been introducing various suggestions in this section to Randomize some of the aspects of the game.

    The suggestion for a “Con Based Randomized Limited Reload rule” is really over the long run expected to be complemented by a more randomized Ability generator where an 18 CON can’t be determined at will by the player.

    Elsewhere on this forum, I have a thread called: “Suggestion for A Quick and Dirty way to generate a Class Based Random Ability Roll” which demonstrates the type of Ability generator that might go well with the Limited Reload rule suggested in this thread.

    Other suggestions I’ve made to develop individual modular pieces that would help to create a randomized Challenge game can be seen on the following two threads:

    I don’t know whether a Challenge type game with these suggestions would ever be adopted by some. Perhaps it might be viewed as too complex by many, but I still felt very driven to create these models. I’ve been experimenting with them and actually getting enjoyment out of them, because meta-gaming is significantly minimized and uncertainty is increased, and each game becomes a significantly new adventure.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,433
    edited July 2013

    If you did this, wouldn't you just make sure you started with an 18 constitution, and hope to find both tomes?

    I think it would be simpler to just say "5 reloads max, and only if Charname dies." I kind of do that anyway in every rpg I play. More than 5 reloads feels like a failed game to me, and I just want to start over with a new toon at that point.

    Okay I think 5 reloads max is a good idea. I will adapt it. It's a great way to ease one to no-reload approach. Because simple no-reloads make me fail and never get past to later stages of the game, which becomes kinda frustrating and frankly, sucks. My pc died 3 times in my current game so I have only 2 reloads left, must be very careful! I've established some good levels and items and strategies, though. I like my charname and party, so it is good I still have the chance to continue on. I did not reload when Imoen was, sadly, perma-killed by a chromatic orbx2 sequencer:first orb petrified her and the second shattered her statue. Nasty!

    Oh, and regarding the original idea, my pc has 11 con so he should have been perma-dead as of now. That's why I prefer the '5 reloads tops or go home' approach better.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited July 2013
    I would make an exception on number of reloads if you've never finished ToB before, because without some trying-and-failing over and over, you might never finish. I had a minimal reload going about three summers ago where I went all the way through Baldu'rs Gate One and Shadows of Amn, and into ToB, which I had never finished. I hit five reloads pretty early on in ToB. I went pretty far after that, but then I started hitting a brick wall with some of the encounters, especially Draconis, the Reaper, and the final battle.

    I finally had to just stop counting reloads, or else I was never going to get to finish the game. I wound up having to turn down the difficulty slider to beat Melissan, because I couldn't beat all her Elder Orbs, and deal with her, too. (I was playing vanilla, no Ascension.) Turning the difficulty slider down reduces the difficulty of her summons, including getting rid of the Elder Orbs.

    I got told in some post-mortem advice that one thing I needed to do was to make use of Rods of Resurrection as a source of Heal spells, which I wasn't doing. I had three fighters whaling on Melissan with Whirlwind Attacks, and they were barely scratching her, while she and her demons were taking them down from 150 hit points to 10 hit points within seconds. It was a nightmare.

    I only ever finally beat her by using trap cheese with my thief, and she came out of about a dozen spike traps at only "badly wounded", which for her, meant, "oh, lord, there's a long way to go."

    Anyway, don't ever lose sight that it's a game, and you're supposed to be having fun.
    Post edited by BelgarathMTH on
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    edited July 2013
    @belgarathmth. Thanks so much for your info.

    The rule that I've been suggesting here for Limited PC Reloads in a challenge game was intended to apply to BGEE or BG1 only. I had been observing so many challenge games on this forum where some of them called for Minimal Reloads, and some called for No Reloads, that I thought a reasonable challenge would be to allow some leeway to the No Reload approach, but still to limit it.

    I assume that a similar rule with a new number of reloads would be used for BG2, and based on your observations about the difficulties of first approaching ToB, it might also have to be treated separately.

    It's also a good point to make that these rules should in no way be considered for players who have not yet finished the specific games at least once. It's my opinion that when a game is not yet well known, it carries the elements of adventure and excitement perfectly, and need not be modified at all. Only when the game is very well known by the player so that he risks becoming bored, do I recommend considering some randomized limitation type challenges so as to increase the level of risk, uncertainy and excitement in the game again.
    Post edited by franco on
Sign In or Register to comment.