Can you dual wield 2 handed weapons with extremely high Str?
Fubby
Member Posts: 189
I always imagined you could, but I never realized that 25 str was even possible for a while
Dont hate I never used clerics or knew who cromwell was
Dont hate I never used clerics or knew who cromwell was
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- I do realize how absurd it sounds when I talk about realism in a game that has elf,dragons,magic, etc...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Battle_of_Kappel_detail.jpg
This is a real drawing from the 1500 on how knights fought with big 2h swords (... mostly to counter pikes)
You had to swing it over your shoulder to get any power, they were just waaaay too heavy.
I mean think about it...the guy in the opening video had to weigh at least 240-300 pounds, counting his armor, thats over half of Big S's maximum carry weight, and he lifts him easily one-handed...there's obviously some serious str boosting and physical re-enforcement going on there.
also there have been documented "giants" in our history, basically people up to 7' feet, and they also used their 2h sword over their shoulder.
I mean, even the famous No-dachi (Japanese 2h Swords) that the Japanse Samurai's used was mainly for charge or just a status symbol, same in Europe - they weigh way too much.
The Claymores were always used as rather massive two-handers... yet the blade length at times was shorter than that of a Long Sword.
In fact, Long Swords themselves had large, long hilts, enough to be wielded by both hands.
Truly, it comes to Two handed sword when discussing the "Zweihänder", or literally, "Two Hander", which were much larger and longer swords. But despite the fact that they were longer than most humans, the sword itself wasn't heavy at all, just a couple of kilos. Problems mostly come from the center of mass though. If one grabbed a two handed sword on the blade instead of the hilt, then pretty much anyone could one hand it. (some long swords having the same weight as a two hander, keeping that in mind)
On the other hand, Katanas, or if we are more technical, Iaito for training swords, fake blades and Shinken for real blades, were also not the lightest of swords (especially in comparison to rapiers). Still lighter than Long Swords, although that might depend on the frame of the person. Many are really tailor-made for the wielder.
But at any rate @raxtoren a blade's sharpness doesn't really mean that it's the strongest weapon around. A simple long sword has more uses than a Katana for instance. Katanas are generally slashing weapons (although thrust is certainly an option) and are by fact shorter in range, long swords are thrusting, slashing and when in need, you can use their pommel to bash. In general, neither Katana nor Long Sword will do much slashing damage to a full plate mail. That's why blunt weapons came in handy - smack that mace on the helmet, the helmet bends inwards and smashes the wearer's skull. Neither Katana nor Long Sword could do that.
Weapon use is really very situational. And it's highly possible to wear a Two hander in one hand. But try lifting a shovel with one of your hands at the end of the shaft - that's the problem. Try lifting it halfway through the shaft? No problem at all!
Fact is that Dual wielding is quite an exotic class of swordsmanship. In many cases I even think they used the offhand weapon as a counter weapon, not even as a killing weapon. You know, just to deflect the opponent's weapon and give a serious punch with your main hand weapon. After all, that's why there are Parrying daggers.
But as he stated in his book - book of the five rings -before he died of cancer, train with 2 longswords even if you will never use it in dualwield, because when you swap back to a small weapon like a Wakizashi, you hardly notice you dual wield anymore.
And as you said, it probably was more like a deflect weapon, because he suggested a soft grip instead of tight, however nt lose enough you can drop it. which suggest to me, it wasnt meant for stabbing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi
My friend does Kendo, and linked me a couple of Niten Ichi-ryū style fights, yes some in Kendo tournament at highest levl still use what Mushashi did - with mixed results.
As for the original debate. Actually given giant and super strong beings exist in D&D, the fact that a character with temporarily boosted strength can never dual wield two-handed weapons is just (understandably) lazy design. I mean Khalid with 23 Str Cloud Giant str surely CAN pick up two 2-handed swords and swing them with some force, but he will have had almost no practise fighting this way, so it will certainly causing penalties to THAC0. However, a mighty half-orc with 19 base Str, who is equivalent to a Hill Giant, should perhaps be allowed to gain proficiency in dual-wielding 2-handers. I don't know the lore of Hill Giants, but I'm thinking even the smallest giants should be 8 ft+, and not just an over-grown human.
The only thing he says about using 2 longswords in the whole book is that it's stupid and will get someone killed, because they're unwieldy and get tangled up on each other easily. A katana and wakazashi on the other hand, can be maneuvered around each other much easier, and if fighting in close quarters, having the shorter blade available is superior to being stuck with 2 long blades. (but by the same token, dual-wakazashi has the reverse problem...in the open, an opponent with a longer reach has the advantage).
His passage on conditioning just says that using a katana in one hand is difficult at first (they're mostly used 2hded style), but with lots of practice you won't notice the weight anymore. And to swap hands frequently during practice so that both arms are used to the weight of the larger sword in case one arm becomes wounded. While you could just use the shorter sword in that situation, as above, depending on the circumstances it might put you at an even greater disadvantage then simply being wounded.
And to learn at least the basics of all weapon types, because a true warrior, can adapt in the event he is disarmed or otherwise loses his swords during battle, as well as to better understand how to counter them.
(The bow is much more dangerous then the gun (for that time period), since it's easier for the shooter to tell how much to adjust their aim due to being able to follow the arrows path, while the bullet is basically invisible, and it's also much MUCH faster to prepare the next shot. Also interestingly....Japanese archery practice starts point blank (to ensure you're using the proper shooting form), and slowly moves outward...so it's actually more dangerous the closer to a japanese archer you get, because they're actually much more comfortable shooting in close quarters then western style archers are, who practiced shooting at range exclusively).
But then arises the question.
Why did you leave that godly power armor just lying there on him ;_;
everything is stolen from you @bg2
It disintegrated when he died, due to being modified to channel his Bhaalspawn powers through it (very clear from the end-game video). His sword on the other hand is just a Deathbringer blade.
Now add dual wielding into the mix, with the additional challenge that the swords also need to avoid bumping into each other. You have maybe one or two types of swing left that you can actually use. Which is a very ineffective way of fighting.
It's very different with a 3 foot long weapon - you have much more maneuverability and have the option to move the weapon in very different ways. The second weapon adds more restriction, but not fatally so. It's also worth noting that historically dual wielding was done with medium and a short length weapons. Not with 2 long swords because it gets quite difficult to do this, regardless of strength.
If you don't believe me then try grabbing a couple of lightweight 6 foot poles and see just how unwieldy they are.
To him the greatsword more like a bastard sword.
For a 6 foot tall person, their normal arm position while wielding a sword will be 3-4 feet off the ground. Assuming sufficient strength, a 3 foot long sword is very easy to wield - able to move in any direction you want without it contacting the ground. At arm's length it is about 2 feet away from your body/legs (2/3rds of the sword length), so you also have fairly good maneuverability without being in danger of hitting yourself.
A six foot sword is a very different matter. No matter how strong you are, you are very restricted in how you can wield it without hitting either the ground or yourself.
For the 12 foot tall frost giant it's a very different story. His additional height and arm length mean that a 6 foot long sword for him is the equivalent of a human wielding a 3 foot sword.
To my knowledge the only way to get 25 str is DuHM and Crom Faeyr, but I never played ToB (Crashed upon going to SoA areas so I couldnt go to Amn), and I here that you become crazy strong so perhaps I'm wrong. Sorry for not being clear on that.
It's not a matter of strength, it's a matter of size. It doesn't matter how strong you are, it's how big you are. Frost-giants can wield 2hd swords one-handed because they're huge creatures (2 steps larger then humans).
You'd be causing damage to your body or potentially destroying the weapon with every swing, due to forcing weight on areas it normally shouldn't touch. Or you'd need some tactile telekinesis to help offset the load distribution.
If however, you had a suit of magical armor that could re-enforce your body, to help compensate for off balanced weight load, or physically make you large enough to wield the weapon that way more naturally, it's quite do-able.