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Why the Hate for Enhanced Edition??

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  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Shin said:


    You are going to have to back that up with something.

    Part of an older debate I had with shawne, but you can look here for a list of implemented features.
    Oh, I thought you said Duke Nukem Forever was an engine revolution... nevermind then!
  • gunmangunman Member Posts: 215

    @gunman what do you mean by the things you wanted enhanced?
    by pathfinding do you mean when you click for the party to move sometimes some try to go around? ive not had that problem until just now actually in ulcaster (which i could swear is a new area as ive not seen it before but i could be wrong) but even then it wasn't really a problem as i caught it early enough and it seems to happen rarely, maybe it will happen later on is there a particular point where this is a problem?

    as for the GUI again what do you mean? do you mean the lack of quickspells/ weapons?

    i can sort of agree with customizable rules like i mentioned above an "easy setting where CHARNAME could be ressurected" as for the force unpause during inventory screen i dont see why you would want that, i hated it, too many times have i been setting more potions to quick slots then die and have to start the fight over again but *shrug* if its how you want to play more power to you and what do you mean by max stacks? do you mean like 99 cure light wound potions takes one square?

    as for improved AI there is nothing that needs clarification on that, it is what it is

    The pathfinding is really annoying when in dungeons or mazes when you have a full party. It lacks any predictability. When all characters are moving at once and if the path becomes blocked at any time for one character because another one is in its path, instead of waiting a little for its path to become clear before going forward, it recalculates the path turning all the way back on a very long route and risking running into respawned mobs. So they should be aware of each other movement orders and a moving character should know that the path is only temporary blocked and wait for it to clear instead of fully recalculating it.

    The possible GUI enhancement was explained by @TJ_Hooker.

    The customizable rules would have been a nice addition because some like myself prefer the original BG1 rules, with no pause in inventory screen and smaller ammo stacks, which require some planning in advance difficult encounters and long trips.

    There is no proof that AI has been enhanced from BG2 engine. You can still draw monsters from mobs one at a time (no call to arms feature as in IWD), most of the enemies still focus on the closest target ,with some of them randomly switching target to whoever is attacking them. At least the intelligent monsters and bosses (named monsters) should evaluate who to attack (greatest threat, most vulnerable etc). And the AI spellcasters scripted list was not changed at all since the original BG1. You know that Davaeron will always cast lightning bolt and the wizard in the carnival tent will cast horror. A little randomization in the spells list would add greatly to the replay value and make some encounters more dangerous. Also respawns should have been reduced, better less but more challenging encounters that fighting over and over again trash mobs.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited September 2013
    Gave said:

    for people active in the Infinity Engine modding community.. the upgrade probably isnt very impressive.

    It's more like a downgrade, at least until all the relevant mods are made compatible with BG:EE.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Wow I never expected to generate this level of debate. Thanks guys, I think I have a grasp of the issues now. Also it is testament to the maturity of this community that such a 'controversial' issue did not devolve into a flame war. lol

    I very much agree with the view that BG EE is a very significant improvement on BG 1 Vanilla, which is why I stopped my first BG 1 Vanilla run in Chapter 5, bought BG EE and restarted. I see some veterans saying things like "You can download Mod X and Mod Y for free and install them in 2 mins and it'd be as good or better than BG EE!". But... as a beginner there is simply no way I'd know which mods are the 'core ones' and 'properly tested', which ones are compatible together, and so it'd take much longer and lots of research in practise. I am also one of these people who are very reluctant to mess around with the inner workings of a game, at least on a first playthrough.

    Finally, I have little/no knowledge of the modding community, but a thought has just occurred to me... this maybe completely untrue/unfair... but is it possible that some of the most vocal critics of BG EE are modders who 1) feel like their work is being made obsolete by BG EE and 2) are resentful that they did not get invited to work in the Dev team for EE?
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited September 2013
    Cuv said:

    I disagree, the EE is very impressive. I am probably the oldest modder left around and worked on the team that created Ascension; this is the definitive version of the IE in my opinion. Also, most of the top modders from all the modding sites are in here working with the Development team to help make BG:EE the very best game it can be.

    @Cuv

    I'm fully aware of the "under the hood" improvements of BG:EE. I agree, they are impressive. My criticism does not concern BG:EE potential, but I'm quite disappointed with his current state.

    I'm not really concerned with the bugs, as the only one that it is really bugging me at the moment is the infamous "spawns disappearing on reload" and, if I'm not wrong, that should be addressed, among several other issues, by the coming patch.

    The main problem with BG:EE is IMO the current lack of support for old mods. Most of the greatest mods (e.g. BG1 NPC Project, Level 1 NPCs, BG1 Unfinished Business, Finch, Indira, Gavin, Mur'Neth, just to name a few) are not yet compatible with BG:EE.

    I know that a compatible version of "BG1 NPC Project" is almost ready, but what about the other mods? Can you guarantee that they will be made compatible too?

    I'm also aware that updating mods is not a task for the developers of BG:EE, but rather for the modding community, nevertheless until they are updated (or until equivalent or better new mods will be released by the community for BG:EE) my preferred BG1 version will remain BG1Tutu because I'm simply having more fun playing that at the moment.
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    ^ What @Cuv and @CamDawg said. Plus, all the popular and newer mods will be compatible at or soon after release anyway. :)
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    LiamEsler said:

    all the popular and newer mods will be compatible at or soon after release anyway. :)

    @LiamEsler

    Do you mean just BG2 mods or also BG1 mods? If the latter, after release of what? BG2, the patch for BG1 or something else?
  • drawnacroldrawnacrol Member Posts: 253
    Because people like me who love the idea of enhanced edition Baldurs Gate games will pre-order it and not say much after.

    Now someone who dislikes it feels the need to scream and shout as if their opinion is going to make the slightest bit of difference. You can't tell someone how to waste their time but you could do something a lot more productive then spend your day on a forum bitching about a game your still going to buy and play regardless.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @Erg
    BGII mods. Most of the BGI mods that are out there are actually Tutu or BGT mods, which makes them a bit more complicated to convert.

    Just to clarify, the obstacle to BGI mods working is dependent on modders making them work. BGI:EE changes a number of things from Vanilla (primarily weapon proficiencies and kits), but Tutu changes the actual names of resources; if a mod was made for Tutu (or BGTrilogy), all of those changed resource names have to be accounted for before the mod will work with the EE.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited September 2013
    Dee said:

    @Erg
    BGII mods. Most of the BGI mods that are out there are actually Tutu or BGT mods, which makes them a bit more complicated to convert.

    Just to clarify, the obstacle to BGI mods working is dependent on modders making them work. BGI:EE changes a number of things from Vanilla (primarily weapon proficiencies and kits), but Tutu changes the actual names of resources; if a mod was made for Tutu (or BGTrilogy), all of those changed resource names have to be accounted for before the mod will work with the EE.

    I agree and that's why, unfortunately, @LiamEsler statement is not very comforting IMO about my main concern at the moment, i.e. the lack of support for old BG1 mods in BG1:EE and I don't see how this situation is going to improve any time soon.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm confident the day will come that I will be happy to uninstall BG1Tutu and switch permanently to BG1:EE. I'm just afraid it's going to be a very long wait.
  • kaguanakaguana Member Posts: 1,328
    @Erg have faith in @LiamEsler I believe he will do everything he can so all the mods will be compatible with both BG1:EE and BG2:EE as fast as he can and I believe that after the release of the patch and BG2:EE he will have more time to make it so ;)
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    kaguana said:

    @Erg have faith in @LiamEsler I believe he will do everything he can so all the mods will be compatible with both BG1:EE and BG2:EE as fast as he can and I believe that after the release of the patch and BG2:EE he will have more time to make it so ;)

    Veritas, Credo, Oculos!
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Cuv said:

    As for Ascension, rest assured that a compatible version of that will be ready when BGII:EE is launched.

    Best BG2EE news so far!
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Cuv said:

    Gave said:

    ... for people active in the Infinity Engine modding community.. the upgrade probably isnt very impressive.

    I disagree, the EE is very impressive. I am probably the oldest modder left around and worked on the team that created Ascension; this is the definitive version of the IE in my opinion. Also, most of the top modders from all the modding sites are in here working with the Development team to help make BG:EE the very best game it can be.

    As much as I dislike to disagree with you, CamDawg and Kaeloree all at once, I'd have to stand with Gave's statement. To someone used to playing with the NPC project and SCS (and various other bugfixing and content-altering mods), BG:EE at release wasn't all that impressive per se, but rather felt kind of stripped down/barebones. You could sense the potential of course, but in my opinion it's only more recently with SCS being usable, some EE-compatible mods being released and more externalizations being on the horizon that BG:EE is starting to catch up somewhat in terms of actual playing experience.
  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    Cuv said:

    Gave said:

    ... for people active in the Infinity Engine modding community.. the upgrade probably isnt very impressive.

    I disagree, the EE is very impressive. I am probably the oldest modder left around and worked on the team that created Ascension; this is the definitive version of the IE in my opinion. Also, most of the top modders from all the modding sites are in here working with the Development team to help make BG:EE the very best game it can be.

    And this is what I don't understand about some of the haters (not necessarily on these forums). They tend to bash the EE with what ever they can throw at it, and then explain how all the modders work for the original BG was so much better. And yet they dont mention that half of the said modders are now working with the EE dev team!
  • kiryamokiryamo Member Posts: 12
    Cuv said:



    As for Ascension, rest assured that a compatible version of that will be ready when BGII:EE is launched.

    100% sure? Really GOOD new!

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