Why the Hate for Enhanced Edition??
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
I am fairly new to the Baldur's Gate community and came across this game rather accidentally.
I was looking for other stuff on GoG when I saw Baldur's Gate was ridiculously highly rated compared to another game that I personally rated very highly (Avernum). So I bought BG 1 Vanilla and BG 2 Vanilla from GoG to try it out. I enjoyed them so much that I decided to buy BG EE from Steam when it was on sale, and then enjoyed that so much that I decided to pre-order BG 2 EE from Beamdog as a way of saying thanks to the guys who made a game I've already played for almost 100 hours, and likely hundreds more to come.
So I don't know much of the background story and history of the game, and I have been a bit puzzled/confused as to why on other BG-related forums, there appears to be quite a lot of hostility to Enhanced Edition and the entire concept of it, seemingly from hardcore fans of BG Vanilla, who otherwise seem pretty reasonable and knowledgeable about Baldur's Gate.
I just don't get it. If I don't like a game, or don't think it's value-for-money, I don't buy it. I don't bother hating a game I never play. I mean I played Diablo 3 for 500 hours last year until I Diablo'd myself out. Now I won't bother with the expansion cos I don't think Blizzard have done enough to keep the game interesting, but I don't suddenly HATE Diablo 3 or the upcoming expansion, I just won't buy it.
Am I missing something here?
I was looking for other stuff on GoG when I saw Baldur's Gate was ridiculously highly rated compared to another game that I personally rated very highly (Avernum). So I bought BG 1 Vanilla and BG 2 Vanilla from GoG to try it out. I enjoyed them so much that I decided to buy BG EE from Steam when it was on sale, and then enjoyed that so much that I decided to pre-order BG 2 EE from Beamdog as a way of saying thanks to the guys who made a game I've already played for almost 100 hours, and likely hundreds more to come.
So I don't know much of the background story and history of the game, and I have been a bit puzzled/confused as to why on other BG-related forums, there appears to be quite a lot of hostility to Enhanced Edition and the entire concept of it, seemingly from hardcore fans of BG Vanilla, who otherwise seem pretty reasonable and knowledgeable about Baldur's Gate.
I just don't get it. If I don't like a game, or don't think it's value-for-money, I don't buy it. I don't bother hating a game I never play. I mean I played Diablo 3 for 500 hours last year until I Diablo'd myself out. Now I won't bother with the expansion cos I don't think Blizzard have done enough to keep the game interesting, but I don't suddenly HATE Diablo 3 or the upcoming expansion, I just won't buy it.
Am I missing something here?
15
Comments
Another problem are the contractual limitations, which prevent modification of existing content. Some people were hoping for alterations in the story line, but that's not happening. I expect that one to be a big thing particularly with ToB, as the ending is fairly weak without the Ascension mod.
Personally, I expected it to be pretty much how it turned out, except maybe for a little more proper content (I don't like Black Pits as it's outside the main game). It's always a danger with much-hyped titles that people just expect too much. D3 had a similar problem, people just completely forgot how grindy and repetitive its predecessor was and for some reason criticized exactly that about the new one.
That's not to say there isn't genuine and legitimate criticism of course. BG:EE is far from perfect, and does have some annoying shortcomings (like the slow patch cycle). I do agree though that most of the anger and rage you see in places is inappropriate.
It's probably to the fact "you have to pay 20 bucks for a version that basically has little difference to a cheap version of BG1 on GOG.com and/or to a free torrent file such as BGT and BigWorld" and so on and on.
It amazes me, really.
But I don't want (need) to find the roots of this problem and try to show as much love for EE and our dear Devs as I can when I have a chance.
So, one more time: dear Devs, THANK YOU SO MUCH for making BG1and2:EE! I enjoy your product a lot!
Still, deep down I believe that people who aren't excited about the long-term potential of the EE just aren't that into BG to begin with.
To me, the EE project announcement was akin to what I imagine a Beatles fan would feel if he found out that John Lennon and George Harrison had been magically resurrected and the reunited Beatles were going on a world tour that included his hometown. John might need a year or two to get his voice back into shape first, but even so something that for a long time seemed impossible just turned into reality.
I just had an image of them on stage at the "Zombeatles Reunion" concert.
I think people don't realize the potential, as has been stated in this thread, or they don't fully understand the enhancements that have been made that make this such a definitive version of the game. People seem to enjoy talking about the zoom in particular as a lackluster enhancement, but the truth is that's the tip of the top of the giant mammoth iceberg that is the Enhanced Edition.
Why it doesn't make sense to me mostly is because these people also usually claim they are big fans of the original games. I guess they see EE somehow ruining the vanilla games which makes absolutely zero sense to me, since obviously if you want the vanilla experience it will always be there too.
I'm a big BG saga fan myself, I bought both BG1+BG2 back when they came out here, and I've since finished BG2 over dozen times, which is way more than I've beaten any other game. I would loved to see BioWare just keep making new IE game after another, but it wasn't meant to be. So I personally absolutely love the fact that after 10 years professionals are working on these games again. Bringing us new high quality features and content. Not only does it give me new excuses to play my favorite games again, and actually find stuff I've never seen before, this modernization will also help these game stay playable for another 15 years.
I'm not going to pretend that everything has been perfect though. Obviously people, myself included, have valid complains about bugs and eg. the fact the new BGEE areas are really blurry compared to the old ones. Bugs can always be fixed though, and if compare positives and negatives I think it's pretty clear that the positives win. And even if you don't agree with that no-one is taking the vanilla games from anyone.
The lack of a real-money auction house was nice too.
People do have some legitimate concerns about BG:EE--the release had a lot of issues with it, particularly in the case of Intel chipsets--and those are concerns we've taken to heart. I certainly hope no one hates BG:EE, but I also have to remind myself that this is The Internet, and frustration quickly turns into hatred when talking through text.
A gamer, on average is an open-minded, calm and fairly intelligent person. But give us the anonymity of internet and the indifference of written word (as opposed spoken word and direct contact) and everyone will turn into a zealous, demagogic, screaming self-justified maniac with patented intelligence...on some turn. That's why flame wars erupt, that's why arguments start, that's why families are torn and friends alienated. And games you would not as much as shrug in real life conversation will get the target of your hatred.
I personally know few people who can't contain themselves while over internet/chat/emails. Talk to them in person and they are "normal" and non-aggressive. That's just the way we are.
P.S.: I personally played BG1&BG2 right when it came out, kept coming back to it via BGTutu and mods and I still love BGEE and pre-ordered BG2EE. There are lovers, there are haters. There are people trying to prove a point and there are people just wishing to scream at someone else... it's in our nature.
Some people who bought on Steam feel cheated because they are not getting the patches.
But BGEE is exactly what I hoped it would be, when all the bugs are ironed and dlc start coming in good pace, that will be great.
I just say overhaul should take direct control of their steam release, because dlcs sell much better there.
On the other hand, no patches have been released since the bankruptcy took effect. So it's difficult to say for certain what will happen this time around.
That said, on a related note... does anyone share my general dislike of the whole concept of patching?
Let me explain... Maybe this was always a myth cos I was to young to notice it back then, but I remember a time when all games came on disks, and there was no such thing as online patches, so games were usually delivered only after they've been fully tested and perfected, and not asap, with the attitude that "we'll just fix the bugs with patches post-release". I have never been tempted to be a beta-tester for any games, and yet it seems with every new game released these days, buying it on release is essentially paying release-day price (before sales) for the privilege of being a beta-tester for the players who buy the game a year later at a discounted price, once most of the niggles and bugs had been weeded out. I really hope this won't be the case with BG 2 EE, but even though I pre-ordered, I probably won't rush to start a new game on release day, and instead wait for a week or two to see if there's any significant issues with players who had already rushed through it.
The emergence of Steam has taken this to a whole new level. There was a time when I'd install a game, play for a while, leave it for months and then come back to the saved game and continue as if I'd never been away. I did that with Shogun 2, and found that there had been so many patches that my saves were all messed up, and all my battle replays were totally ruined.
For a game that's not an MMO that demands constant new content, I really wish Devs would just make the best possible version of their game and leave it be, or at least make new patches optional!
A few years later as venues for advertising and the popularity of game-related forums/sites/chats etc increased, the whole hype phenomenon took shape, where a product would be famous, wanted and raved about way before it had been released, essentially extending its lifecycle to begin a long time (sometimes years) ahead of its retail date.
And when you're capitalizing on hype, strategic release of information in small portions over time and a large launch can as we all know lead to a great number of people buying a game - preferably even a limited collector's edition of it - for a lot of money. When you've gotten this far, the actual quality of the game or the amount of patching needed is a secondary concern - it's not like you'll gain any significant amount of buyers due to "word of mouth" once the initial release period is over.
Creative Assembly has been hugely successful with its Total War franchise because most of the games were pretty damned good on release. It has only been relatively recently that I noticed a steady decline in ratings and a tendency to release semi-ready products. The company kinda pulled things around with Shogun 2, and given Rome 1 was hugely popular and highly rated, Rome 2 was massively anticipated, and probably would have been (financially) successful regardless. However they really messed up this launch and Rome 2 has the lowest ratings in the franchise history. Unless they turn it around in a big way, I suspect this will heavily impact their sales for whatever is next, maybe Medieval 3 Total War.
Similarly Diablo 3 sales essentially fed off the popularity of Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, and even though I enjoyed it a lot, I know lots of people were disappointed with how Diablo 3 turned out. The way Blizzard (failed to) handled with it in a sustainable and satisfactory manner (for me) is also why I will not be buying the upcoming expansion. A LOT of people quit Diablo 3 well before I did. Of course it didn't harm Blizzard's profits on Diablo 3 launch, since everyone had already paid, but I am sure their sales of the expansion will be hugely lower compared with if they made the game without all its issues with bugs, balancing issues, exploits and auction house controversy (even though I did like the AH cos I loved trading... I know I was in the minority. lol)
-Too pricey: You can get the original game on GoG for like, five bucks? I dunno exactly, but it's a lot cheaper. And if you install certain mods, you can run it on the BG2 engine and have it in widescreen, all for that original price.
-New characters: Neera is annoying/out of place. Rasaad is preachy and a low-level monk, therefore useless. Dorn is...well, actually, Dorn seems to attract the least complaints.
-New content: All tied to the new NPC's, so if you don't recruit them, you miss it. And since some people hated the new NPCs...yeah. I've also heard it said the new areas were blurry and not well-designed.
-Delayed ship: It happened, it didn't look good, no one was happy about it.
-Bugs: Even I thought it was kinda shitty upon release. It's gotten a lot better, but no one is ever happy if one single bug yet exists.
I used to get caught up in it to some degree - today I mostly wander on to something more interesting or useful and let the haters hate.
I personally was expecting "eXistenZ"-like version of the game ...
(sigh)
but who knows, may be after 10 or 15 years...
The contract restrictions are the biggest issue for me. There are so many problems with the game's skeleton, and especially in SoA and progressively worse in ToB several story elements and areas that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but because fixing them would alter existing NPCs/Plot elements, they can't be touched.
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D3 though I hate. Always online with an unplayable game for days after launch (as predicted), skewed drop-rates to force people to rely on the RMAH (was kind of decent at first if you could get into the game and manage to stay connected (D2-ish level), but was nerfed to hell in the first patch). Story was bland and uninspired (which is an odd thing to say about a Loot-Whore Action/RPG, but it's true..D2 had a much better story presentation, while D3 is a mindless Micheal Bay experience). Character customization is meaningless since fewer and fewer skills become at all useful as the difficulty level goes up (Being able to select your gender was nice though). Stats and items are bland and uninspired.
And it's become blatantly obvious that the PC players were just being used for beta-testers so Blizzard could see what they could and couldn't get away with for the console version. And while not truly important to me, Blizzard promised a PvP system, that STILL hasn't materialized, despite them dumbing down everything was supposed to be so that they could have balanced PvP, instead of OP BS like in D2 because of the sheer amount of freedom in character build (especially after they added infinite respecs for gold (based on level) so you could swap points around whenever).
The console version, by all-reports is what the PC D3 should've been from the beginning (even offering 4 player local co-op in place of a LAN function), but I still can't bring myself to support it because of getting burned by the PC version (was the final straw that caused me to declare Blizzard dead as a company to me, so they shant EVER see so much as a penny from me ever again).
yes drop rates are a valid complaint about D3. Anyone who has played D2 for a long time can tell immediately that they've absolutely killed the drop rates to encourage people to use the RMAH. D2 is grindy, but there's a definite system there that can be gamed to get what you want in a reasonable amount of time (since in D1 and D2 the multiplayer was considered a truly optional component, rather then forced down your throat as in D3), D3 doesn't have that, they removed it during the first patch of the game.
That kind of fundamental change doesn't come across as well in advertisements as "x new areas, y amounts of bugs fixed, z new NPCs" do but like I've said before it's what really matters in the long run. It's a lot like how BG2 trailers tend to focus on action sequences and spell effects, even though the true measure of the game doesn't lie in those things - the heart of the game just doesn't let itself be transmitted in a 30 second video clip.
And putting that aside, generally if you like something a whole lot, the mere potential of it being improved is likely to excite you. Even if the project meant to improve it ultimately doesn't achieve everything it set out to do.