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Find Familiar (Multiplayer/Multiple Mages)

VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 564
in Archive (General Discussion)
I know this has been mentioned in passing within a few other threads but I'm looking for a Dev's response if at all possible.

Will this be changed at some point? to allow multiple mages, multiple players, etc, to cast Find Familiar? Is it something that is far too deeply entrenched within the code that it'd be too difficult (if not impossible) to change without a complete rewrite to the framework of the game?

I am really curious because I find this to be a very amazing feature (one I never used before since I rarely play mages) and I would love for my friend and I to run around with a familiar each.

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    At the moment, Find Familiar is deeply hard-coded. There doesn't look to be an elegant way of softening that; so changing it will likely have to wait (and might never actually get done, depending on how complicated it is).
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 564
    @Dee Thanks again for another prompt and straight forward reply. I figured as much, but the fact that it seems to be something worth looking into does give me hope and make me even more appreciative of you guys and all of the hard work you are doing. Do keep it up, you have a permanent fan and supporter with me :)
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    There's a lot that I'd like to do with familiars (look for my earliest posts on these forums, back before I was hired, to see some of those thoughts).

    Unfortunately, they don't let me touch the code--and I can't really blame them--so most of what might seem reasonable to you or me might be heinously complicated engine-side.
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 564
    Dee said:

    There's a lot that I'd like to do with familiars (look for my earliest posts on these forums, back before I was hired, to see some of those thoughts).

    Unfortunately, they don't let me touch the code--and I can't really blame them--so most of what might seem reasonable to you or me might be heinously complicated engine-side.

    Well, I may not sound like it but I am a software engineer :P I just have never attempted to touch the infinity engine and literally know next to nothing about it - technically speaking.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I have a Beastmaster in a current multi-solo run with 6 PCs that I forgot could not use the find familiar perk except as protagonist -I was wondering if you could just export the leader and beastmaster then reform the party (in MP mode) putting him at the top - use the spell - export - and switch back?

    No time to play again until sunday or I would fool with it and see.
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 564
    Wanderon said:

    I have a Beastmaster in a current multi-solo run with 6 PCs that I forgot could not use the find familiar perk except as protagonist -I was wondering if you could just export the leader and beastmaster then reform the party (in MP mode) putting him at the top - use the spell - export - and switch back?

    No time to play again until sunday or I would fool with it and see.

    Hmm, I might try this for kicks this weekend then as well, not something I thought about!
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    I was playing around last night with this very concept.

    I started multiplauer game with a Mage, then cast find familiar. Put it in your backpack and export the character.

    Then restart the multiplayer game and import your character in all six slots ( you could do this with 6 different mages also).

    All six characters will keep the familiar in their inventory when the game starts. Let them loose, and you have a twelve member party!

    Go chaotic evil and your imps can shape change into ogres. Commense crushing people into goo.
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    I know nothing about the Infinity Engine inner workings, but since you imported always the same character it could be that the 6 familiars are actually as many instances of the same creature...
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    edited September 2013
    I don't know either. Maybe it's going to crash the game if one Mage puts another's familiar in his backpack, or if he puts two in there. Maybe they stack :)

    I can try to see what happens.
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    Update: it does crash the game to put two familiars in one backpack.

    I tried to replicate the situation and found that you can only release the 6 familiars if you pause and do it simultaneously. If one familiar is loose the secondary releases disappear (probably because the game knows an identical one is present). I got lucky the first time and got all six loose when the mages cast at the same time. Now it's only two or three surviving.

    Bad glitch when you put two in the backpack though. I don't know why. Probably trying to stack or something. The inventory page froze.

    I will try again with six different familiars (six Mage alignments) and see if it recognizes them separately. I was using identical characters.

  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    PS I have no idea how code works.
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    edited September 2013
    Wild guess? Since @Dee already said that «Find familiar is deeply hard-coded», I'd say the engine has only one reserved "spot" for the existing familiar. Since your six instances could be seen as the same familiar repeated multiple times, maybe the engine didn't actually notice you had more than one. (Probably the safest thing to do would be look for a way to prevent that behaviour.)

    If my theory is correct, trying with six mage characters shouldn't work... you'd only get to cast the first "Find familiar" spell, as intended.
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    Thanks! You're probably right. It thinks they are all the same. That's why putting two in the backpack overlap each other. They are a wierd inventory item. You can't move them from their location and the always take the first free space on the upper left. I hate not being able to organize my own way.
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    The six Different alignments do not work any better than identical familiars. But I found that some characters either cast faster or start casting faster than others. If one character was walking the round before you pause they linger for a second before releasing their familiar. Then the familiar is not summoned, they just never appear.

    You have to stop walking, wait a round for everyone to be on the same initiative, pause, release each familiar, unpause. I can only get one back in the backpack after they're loose.

    Lots of safety protocols built in to stop us from having familiars!
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    XerxesV said:

    Lots of safety protocols built in to stop us from having familiars!

    Apparently not enough, though ;)

    Probably they should do for multiplayer something like what happens if you import a character with a familiar in the Black Plits, except of course for the Bhaalspawn.
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    Is the inventory wiped out? Or does it disappear when you release it?
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    Find Familiar is an albatross of a spell. Why would anybody be stupid enough to subject themselves to losing a point of CON? And for what? So some cat with 4 hp can follow you around? Familiars are meant to hang out in a wizards tower, safe and sound. In BG you have to drag it around everywhere. putting your health at risk every encounter.
  • ForseForse Member Posts: 106
    Just keep it in your pack and it's 100 % safe. You even get bonus hit points for having one.
    Besides, and most importantly, its cute and cool
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Lateralus: I agree that the risk of losing a point of CON deters me from having a familiar running around (and especially not in combat), but (as @Forse says) you can keep your familiar in your pack and simply enjoy the HP bonus (which can be worthwhile, especially in the earlier stages).
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    I accidentally stumbled on the HP glitch a few years ago. My necromancer had 125 HP. I was very confused.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    I didn't know you could hide it in a pack. How do you do that?
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    Manually talk to it and you get a bunch of fun options.
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    edited September 2013
    XerxesV said:

    Is the inventory wiped out? Or does it disappear when you release it?

    The familiar is stripped away along with the rest of your stuff, and the HP bonus is removed.
    (I tried only importing character files, not a savegame, but I guess it'd be the same)
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    XerxesV said:

    Manually talk to it and you get a bunch of fun options.


    Shut the front door.
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