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It's the little details...

XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
edited September 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
One of the most impressive things about BG 1&2 is the level of detail in every area. Balduran's butterknife is amazing. Of course he had to eat with something!

My favorite was the roof of the iron throne building, with the reference to the intro movie.
repairs made on the broken railing where Sarevok killed the bhaalspawn


It's little things like that that make the difference. Is there anything in the dialogue or scenery that you found impressive?
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Unfortunately, the top of the Iron Throne building is the one area which doesn't really work in bg:ee, since the area art is not scaled up to deal with modern resolutions
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    edited September 2013
    Let me point to this discussion.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    In the area where you meet safana there's a astrologer that predicts the events of IWD or NWN?
    I haven't played either games so I'm not sure which.
  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    @deefje awesome. That's perfect!
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    At least until you get to BG2, and Athkatla looks nothing like the real Athkatla. The entire city is the largest temple of Waukeen in existence, and most of the areas in BG2 don't exist or are in different places. And since Helm, Lathander, and especially Talos have NO substantial populations anywhere in Amn, they wouldn't have open temples to those gods.

    (Amn's primary religions are Cyric, Xvim, Chauntea, Sune, Selune, and especially Waukeen, who is basically the patron god of the whole region. Waukeen as several open temples, including Goldspires, which takes up 80% of Athkatla. Chauntea has a large open temple roughly where D'narsse Keep is. Xvim has several small open temples, and Cyric, as usual, has no open temples (but one of the Council of Six has a hidden shrine dedicated to Cyric hidden in their villa and handles coordination of local cultists).

    Nor does the Order of the Most Radiant heart even have a chapter in Athkatla.


    BG1 did pretty well regarding it's lore, but BG2 just blatantly made a bunch of $%#^ up and threw a couple names around.
  • KolonKuKolonKu Member Posts: 87
    So temples dedicated to Waukeen alone take up 80% of Athkatla's surface? That sounds very, very wierd. I wonder where you read it. I didn't know merchants were so fanatically religious.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    meagloth said:

    In the area where you meet safana there's a astrologer that predicts the events of IWD or NWN?
    I haven't played either games so I'm not sure which.

    I dont recall that astrologer saying anything significant, mayeb you have to charm her first?
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    there is a guy named "lord foreshadow" who talks about ribald, and neverwinter nights I believe, or some jargon, plus one of the farmers in nashkiel talk about who they will end up in the slums of athkatla if they don't make money soon
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    @KolonKu

    FR campaign setting. Athkatla is called the City of Coin because it's literally dedicated to the Goddess of trade and merchants.

    The "dock district" is actually in a lower part of the temple, where merchants bring their goods through to hopefully be blessed by Waukeen to grant them good fortune as they import or export to lands beyond, Athkatlan Bazaar is located in the front most part of the temple and leads out into the promenade which extends all the way to the main gates of the city where caravans depart for other regions.

    The bridge district and temple district don't exist. The government district (actually the Noble District) is in mostly the correct place. The slums are along the inner wall of the city (except for the main gate, which part of the Promenade), instead of in the middle. No graveyard district is even hinted at.

    The shadow thieves are headquartered in the Government district, since Aran Linveil is one of the Council of Six, and has their HQ located under the Villa he owns under the guise of the Lord of House Dannihyr. They use the sewer system to move around the city, and generally don't care about the Watch because the entire watch is paid off, and will never bother them unless they're blatantly caught in the act and keep their activities out of the noble district, and even then, they generally get off easy.

    Trademeet doesn't exist and the Alibakar and Luraxxol mansions are supposed to be located in the noble district of Athkatla, since they're also part of the Council of Six.

    Pretty much every single location in BG2-SoA, except Athkatla (which isn't designed properly), Spellhold/Byrnnlaw, Suldanessellar (though it's WAY too far North, it's actually in Southern Tethyr) is entirely made up.
  • DeefjeDeefje Member Posts: 110
    I was surprised by the spider lady in cloakwood mentioning Jon Irenicus after playing BG2. Does anybody know wether that was patched or whatsoever? Or did the dev's actually think that far ahead at that point.
  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    Deefje said:

    I was surprised by the spider lady in cloakwood mentioning Jon Irenicus after playing BG2. Does anybody know wether that was patched or whatsoever? Or did the dev's actually think that far ahead at that point.

    It's vanilla, try charming her and she'll say even more :)
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    @Deefje Centeol originally talked about "the Archmage Jon Icarus" in vanilla BG1. However, this fitted so well with Jon Irenicus that it's been retconned a bit and the name's been changed for BG:EE.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    @dib

    yes...very true....but there's also established lore to account for, or you might as well just make your own world from scratch.


    Lore discrepancies are a MASSIVE issue for me, and utterly destroys immersion for me. Some of the areas in BG2, I'm kind of ok with, since they're feasible. It's mostly Athkatla, Trademeet, and the druid grove that annoy me the most. The rest I can sort of go with, since they're all possible, but those 3 directly contradict established lore.

    Athkatla as covered above. All of Trademeet is basically Goldspires torn out of Athkatla and thrown east, with a bunch of random crap thrown in to fill the hole it's removal left. And the Druid grove should be slightly north-west of D'narise Keep. Chauntea's temple is in the middle of a druid grove, and there's no way 2 large groves would exist in such a small geographic area.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    @Corvino -
    Corvino said:

    @Deefje Centeol originally talked about "the Archmage Jon Icarus" in vanilla BG1. However, this fitted so well with Jon Irenicus that it's been retconned a bit and the name's been changed for BG:EE.

    Rather, Jon Icarus was the name originally planned for Irenicus, but they decided to change it. Probably because "Icarus" was just too obvious. BGEE just retroactively changed it to match with the name they later decided on.

    In a similar manner to the mention if Irenicus - you know that giant statue Prism is creating in Nashkel? He shouts the name of his muse before he dies. It's Ellesime - the queen of Suldanesselar and Irenicus' love.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    @dib
    You know, Zanath is a 100% pen and paper purist. It's not like he is ever going to acknowledge the fact, that changes had to be make for a videogame adaptation.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    dib said:

    ZanathKariashi said:

    Pretty much every single location in BG2-SoA, except Athkatla (which isn't designed properly), Spellhold/Byrnnlaw, Suldanessellar (though it's WAY too far North, it's actually in Southern Tethyr) is entirely made up.

    Dude, it's all made up. That's why it's called fantasy.
    That's a fat naked dude. Not a her. And the dialogue options in that encounter are the funniest in the game.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    Lateralus said:

    That's a fat naked dude. Not a her. And the dialogue options in that encounter are the funniest in the game.

    I always ask her why she's so fat.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    Edwin_Odesseiron said:

    - In Baldur's Gate, if you work with Narlen Darkwalk on his assorted thieveing quests, when Alatos sells you out to be killed, Narlen kills your would-be attacker, and rebukes Alatos in the name of "honour amongst thieves." I always felt this was a nice touch (even though you miss out in experience in what is an easy fight, sometimes story is more important.)

    You can place your party members around the mage before speaking to Alatos, then speak to Alatos. After the conversation immediately pause the game and tell your party to attack the mage. You have a couple seconds before Narlen appears, which should be enough to kill the mage. Then Narlen appears and does his thing as if nothing happened, and after the scene you get the 4000XP for killing the mage.
  • QbertQbert Member Posts: 195
    Edwin_Odesseiron said:


    - In Nashkel, there is a gravestone you can click on. If you do so, a mage will appear and tell you not to do that again. If you do not heed his warning, he will spawn fiery, destructive Phoenix Guards each time you click on his grave. This mage is named Daer'Ragh, and he is unkillable. In BG2, there is a set of spells (like Melf) named after him. They are Daer'Ragh's Mental agility (level 2), Daer'Ragh's Physical Agility (level 3), and Daer'Ragh's Aura Cleansing (level 4). These spells were never implemented in the final release of the game, but they can be accessed via Shadowkeeper.

    These are all the ones I could think of for now. I'll post more in the future if I remember them, or come across new ones.

    Hmm... I'm not positive, but i thought i killed him.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I've killed him. Just use ranged weapons and don't talk to him or let him talk to you.
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    You can kill him but he comes back every time you click the grave anyway.
  • revaarrevaar Member Posts: 160
    Deefje said:

    @XersesV

    indeed those things make a difference. I made a screenshot of this on my current playthrough.

    One of Sarevok's Acolytes ran to the rooftop in the battle upstairs the Iron Throne.

    My Charname bravely followed him for a one on one deathmatch that felt strangely nostalgic. While Dorn headed the party to coupe de grace the remaining infidels. ;)

    This seriously felt awesome for some reason and I just sat back and enjoyed the show, it even ended with Zhalimar getting gibbed which was perfect. Except perhaps for the poor commoner that happened to walk by outside.


    How did I never know that you could go up there until this day?
  • Edwin_OdesseironEdwin_Odesseiron Member Posts: 226
    dib said:

    You can kill him but he comes back every time you click the grave anyway.

    This is what I meant, you can't actually get rid of him. Although, for some reason in BG:EE, once I killed him once, he no longer appeared every time I clicked the gravestone, as he did in the original and TUTU.
  • DeefjeDeefje Member Posts: 110
    @Reevar It's well hidden. Just like how I was never able to find the upstairs in the Flaming Fist house in my first playthroughs.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    With @Edwin_Odesseiron's list there is a good explanation for the recurrence of many names. Many of the NPCs both joinable and non-joinable were based on the Dev team's PnP characters, or references to Devs or their friends.

    Minsc's character history is definitely based on one of the Dev's characters. Semaj (Sarevok's acolyte) is James backward, James Ohlen being one of the lead designers. It seems likely that recurrent names for unlinked NPCs may well have a similar basis.
  • LindeblomLindeblom Member Posts: 257
    I have nothing to add, but I totally agree with the TS.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    Here is a nice find that I bet NOBODY else knew of. ;P

    The quest named "The Fisherman and the Priestess" talks about a deal the fishermen made with a cleric of Talos in Baldur's Gate. When you ask for the bowl back, Sonner says, "Take it, but know that the Storm Lord knows who it is that opposes him. You've got what ye came for, now get out of here. I should stay well away from any Talos shrine if I were you. Vengeful things, these gods."

    There is in fact a shrine to Talos in the game, it's the one on the Captain Brage map! If you remove the idol from the shrine, you are attacked by a spirit who says, "Kozah!!" over and over again. Well, Kozah is another named used for Talos!
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