Please save the Druids (Shapeshifting) for BG2:EE (Wildlife movement)
ghostowl
Member Posts: 171
Back in 2001, my close friend moved to a different state. He always wanted my necklace that I wore so I gave it to him as a parting gift. In return, he gave me this blue box game that I first saw. I had no idea what kind of game this was..when I found out it was going to be RPG, I thought "pfft..this game probably can't even hold Diablo's candle"...and boy was I wrong.
I'll be honest. Druids are my favorite class when it comes to roleplaying. I love the idea that a scrawny weak looking guy (like me) can transform into this mass of hulk beast that will tear up everything. That being said, my first class was a shapeshifter. I was amazed at how awesome it was in game. No other game that I played before this let me play as a human that could shapeshift into a beast. And I thought I was badass in the game. I tried killing stuff...for some reason I wasn't doing well. I couldn't finish quests, I couldn't win battles, and I just lost interest in the game.
A few years later, I was in high school and I was tired of maplestory, I was tired of diablo 2, I was tired of final fantasy. I was tired of these wanna-be RPG games that called themselves RPG. I saw this old game and I decided to pop it in for another try. And from my memories of getting crapped on as a druid, I decided to go with a mage this time. It was difficult to learn the spells but it paid off. I studied the game manual and spells like it was a test. Playing as a mage, I could see the full potential in the game. I could actually kill stuff, finish quests, and have fun. By the time I saw my first dragon (Shadow Dragon in the Shadow quest), I was amazed at how awesome it was. I was definitely hooked from that point on.
I played BG2 religiously every summer, and I installed all the fancy mods and went through all the romance dialogues, edited spells, made my own classes. But I never went back to playing as a druid. At this point, I knew enough about the game to know that playing as a druid was heavily handicapping yourself. Back when I first played druid and quit BG2, it was mostly because I was new to the game, not because the class was bad. But when I became a "veteran", I knew the class was gimped. I tried to fix this by getting mods that would solve shapeshifting bugs, but it wasn't the same feeling, "equipping druid claws" in inventory screen just didn't give me the shapeshift-feel to me anymore.
BG2:EE didn't announce whether shapeshifting bug would be fixed. (I didn't even play shapeshifter in BG:EE once since I knew I couldn't get the Greater Shapeshift spell) I did a lot of research about it, and I've heard that when you shapeshift, the form that you use is derived directly from the werewolf "CRE file". So your damage is the same regardless of your equipment. That takes the fun out of wearing new badass weapons when you use a druid. I hope BG2:EE fixes the bug, but I also hope that they change the way shapeshifting works. I know it's a longshot, but I really wish the weapon you use affected the damage you did in your shapeshifted form. Otherwise, it feels pointless to get new weapons for the druid and that takes half the fun out.
Even to this day, I've played this game many many times and beat it with all sorts of weird combinations, but I've never finished it once as a druid. Even with the bug fix, I think this class needs some "cleaning up" done. I haven't pre-ordered BG2:EE, because I'm waiting to see reviews first. But if I know this is going to be looked at, it would compel me to order the game.
I don't know if other people want the druid class to be revamped/fix'ed, but this "enhancement" will really make me feel like EE "enhances" the game for me. BG:EE brought BG2 kits to BG1. Therefore, BG2:EE should try to work on the kits and try to polish them for better gameplay. I'm sorry this was so lengthy.
Do you guys want to see druid kit "worked" on? If yes, please join the movement. If enough people care about this, maybe the developers will look into it. (hopefully)
I'll be honest. Druids are my favorite class when it comes to roleplaying. I love the idea that a scrawny weak looking guy (like me) can transform into this mass of hulk beast that will tear up everything. That being said, my first class was a shapeshifter. I was amazed at how awesome it was in game. No other game that I played before this let me play as a human that could shapeshift into a beast. And I thought I was badass in the game. I tried killing stuff...for some reason I wasn't doing well. I couldn't finish quests, I couldn't win battles, and I just lost interest in the game.
A few years later, I was in high school and I was tired of maplestory, I was tired of diablo 2, I was tired of final fantasy. I was tired of these wanna-be RPG games that called themselves RPG. I saw this old game and I decided to pop it in for another try. And from my memories of getting crapped on as a druid, I decided to go with a mage this time. It was difficult to learn the spells but it paid off. I studied the game manual and spells like it was a test. Playing as a mage, I could see the full potential in the game. I could actually kill stuff, finish quests, and have fun. By the time I saw my first dragon (Shadow Dragon in the Shadow quest), I was amazed at how awesome it was. I was definitely hooked from that point on.
I played BG2 religiously every summer, and I installed all the fancy mods and went through all the romance dialogues, edited spells, made my own classes. But I never went back to playing as a druid. At this point, I knew enough about the game to know that playing as a druid was heavily handicapping yourself. Back when I first played druid and quit BG2, it was mostly because I was new to the game, not because the class was bad. But when I became a "veteran", I knew the class was gimped. I tried to fix this by getting mods that would solve shapeshifting bugs, but it wasn't the same feeling, "equipping druid claws" in inventory screen just didn't give me the shapeshift-feel to me anymore.
BG2:EE didn't announce whether shapeshifting bug would be fixed. (I didn't even play shapeshifter in BG:EE once since I knew I couldn't get the Greater Shapeshift spell) I did a lot of research about it, and I've heard that when you shapeshift, the form that you use is derived directly from the werewolf "CRE file". So your damage is the same regardless of your equipment. That takes the fun out of wearing new badass weapons when you use a druid. I hope BG2:EE fixes the bug, but I also hope that they change the way shapeshifting works. I know it's a longshot, but I really wish the weapon you use affected the damage you did in your shapeshifted form. Otherwise, it feels pointless to get new weapons for the druid and that takes half the fun out.
Even to this day, I've played this game many many times and beat it with all sorts of weird combinations, but I've never finished it once as a druid. Even with the bug fix, I think this class needs some "cleaning up" done. I haven't pre-ordered BG2:EE, because I'm waiting to see reviews first. But if I know this is going to be looked at, it would compel me to order the game.
I don't know if other people want the druid class to be revamped/fix'ed, but this "enhancement" will really make me feel like EE "enhances" the game for me. BG:EE brought BG2 kits to BG1. Therefore, BG2:EE should try to work on the kits and try to polish them for better gameplay. I'm sorry this was so lengthy.
Do you guys want to see druid kit "worked" on? If yes, please join the movement. If enough people care about this, maybe the developers will look into it. (hopefully)
- Please save the Druids (Shapeshifting) for BG2:EE (Wildlife movement)78 votes
- Yes, I want it fixed /and or revamped94.87%
- No, leave it as it is5.13%
Post edited by ghostowl on
2
Comments
As mentioned elsewhere, druids are basically the divine equivalent of a bard...except healing/support in place of mage spells. While they have strict vows to their equipment, their ability to shapeshift allows them to take on forms that allow for huge amounts of variety in roles they can undertake. But due to lack-luster implementation, they are found lacking in ability/utility. (they also lack the Imbue with Magic spell (3rd level), that allows natural attacks of creatures (or shapeshifted druids) to by-pass some hit-requirements, based on caster level, which makes their animal summons and shapeshifting sorely lacking later in the game when a lot of stuff requires at least +1 hit).
However, even though I find the Druid class useful as casters (and they can also be competent off-tanks when wearing Ankheg armour), I've never found their shapeshifting abilities worth bothering with. Most times when I have a Druid in the party, I finish the game without ever once activating a shapeshift. It'd make sense if this ability were re-worked to be some actual use!
Summons are also arguably more useful in later D&D editions when you can use them get flanking bonuses easily etc.
The best "Shapeshifter" in BG:EE is the Avenger. They get a number of nifty different shapes. Even these are pretty redundant at BG2 levels though. I agree that druid shapeshifting overall needs a bit of a rework.
Differentiating the shapeshift forms more might be a good start to make them viable. Having situational abilities such as stealth and a x2 backstab in wolf form could be fun.
Thac0 is set to that of a fighter of equal level. Animal form weapons can strike as if +1 per 5 levels (in lieu of a spell to imbue with magic) (only applies to hit-requirements, not damage). Gains an additional 1d8 bonus hp per 5 levels while shapeshifted.
Regular druid forms -
(AC values include Dex bonus)
Panther - (in place of Black Bear)
"These large stealthy cats excel at stalking targets before launching a brutal ambush that attempts to tear open a vulnerable area, such as the neck or stomach."
AC 5. 17 str, 18 dex, 15 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 10 cha. 99% Stealth. +1 speed.
2 apr, cat claws deal 1d4+1 slashing damage.
Stalk - (added to the special abilities tab, unlimited use per day. Functionally identical to the Hide in shadows command). Panther has x3 BS.
Wolf -
"The nimble wolf excels at hunting as a pack. While individually weak, their quick hit and run attacks on vital areas such as knees or ankles can quickly disable prey so that it can be easily overwhelmed by the rest of the pack."
AC 5. 16 str, 18 dex, 16 Con, 10 int, 10 wis, 10 cha. +3 Speed.
1 apr, wolf bite deals 1d6+1 slashing damage (targets must save at -2 or be slowed for 2 rounds).
Brown Bear -
"The stout and powerful brown bear is one of the strongest natural beasts on land. Their crushingly powerful blows and sharp rending claws are enough that even heavily armored warriors are loathe to fight them without benefit of ranged weaponry. Their powerful claws can easily and deeply rend flesh, often leading to severe bleeding."
AC 4. 18/00 str, 15 dex, 19 Con, 10 int, 10 wis, 10 cha.
3 apr, Bear claw (1d4 blunt +1d3 slashing damage, save vs death or take 4 bleeding damage over 6 seconds).
For example,
wolf form - +1 damage +2 thaco
Werewolf form - +4 damage +6 thaco +1 APR
This way, we can still have fun using weapons and still be useful in later game
But then again, it would not be realistic (because you don't really use your weapon when you change into a bear)
Maybe we can have the forms get stronger. For example, werewolf form does 1d6+1 damage at low lvls, but it becomes 1d8+2 at level 10, 2d6+3 at level 15, and so forth. Just make different CRE files for the werewolf forms and implement them as the druid levels up
And make you unable to talk to people while shapeshifted. Otherwise, there's no incentive to ever turn to human form again to play the game