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Add an alternate way to get silver dragon blood in BG2

RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
After completing all the quests for the silver dragon in the underdark, she rewards you with a few options and I was looking if we could add silver dragon blood to those options. Otherwise the only way to get it is to kill her. The blood is for the creation of the human flesh armor, which is a super evil item, but I still don't think we should be forced to kill the dragon to get the blood. There should always be options.

Comments

  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    edited November 2013
    Well I usually play with a lot of mods but I have never seen that mod before cmorgan so cheers for that. That link seems to be down.
    LiamEsler said:

    The point of the human flesh armor is that you need to commit heinous acts to complete it. Removing the need to kill Adalon would make it far less impactful. :)

    I knew this would be my first reply. Now if your PC is evil then you won't have any qualms killing her, but if your neutral then you may not want to kill her, but still want that armor. Now if your a good PC then you still might want to use it for future acts of good and so those people that gave their flesh wouldn't do so in vain. I know I maybe stretching things, but I still don't think we should HAVE to kill her.
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    edited November 2013
    Mortianna said:

    Since the Human Flesh Armor is only wearable by Evil characters, why would a Neutral or Good PC take part in its construction? Or do you just want to be able to use a cool item without having to take responsibility for what that item represents?

    For many reasons. It really depends on how a character justifies their choice in wearing such an armor. Or it could be for an evil character in their party. Also, thieves have ability to use any item later on. I usually play a CN PC and I don't think he would have any qualms in wearing such an armor. For your last question: if a PC uses an evil item for good purposes then what does that mean?

    Anyways, silver dragon blood by itself isn't an evil thing unless you kill the dragon, but if she gives it to you then it could be used for all sorts of different purposes.
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    Well I'm not disagreeing with you. All I want is just an alternate way to get the silver dragon's blood. I don't use the armor because there's other items I like more, but I just don't think I should have to kill the dragon to get her blood. I'm sure she wouldn't mind it as a reward.
    Mortianna said:


    ...and justify your actions because you plan to use it for non-Evil purposes, like giving it to an Evil character in your party? Do you think Adalon would buy that story?.

    Maybe I should have worded things better, but yes. You could give the flesh to an evil character in support of your mission for the greater good. Also, you wouldn't have to tell Adalon exactly what it's for. You could tell her it's for a spell component or whatever.
  • RadwulfRadwulf Member Posts: 49
    I think that it is less of a problem that you have to kill the dragon to get the blood than the potentially huge XP loss you suffer for doing so. If you complete the quest each of your party members gets a lot of experience each, but even if you complete most of the quest with the exception of handing her the eggs you only get the experience for killing her. This is unfair.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Why not do both? I've done it before, but it takes great timing skills.

    Step 1: Return the eggs normally
    Step 2: Teleport at Drow Gate. Casts a timestop and kill her. Preferably, use a fighter/mage to earn exp for killing a dragon. If not fast enough (she has stoneskin, tons of hp and WILL teleport away when you attack her), use a sorcerer to shapechange into mindflayer and mind-drain her to death (no exp).
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    Use CluaConsole :-D
  • WorgWorg Member Posts: 170
    Ryan said:

    ......You could give the flesh to an evil character in support of your mission for the greater good.

    THE GREATER GOOD!
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    I'll pose my question a bit differently. I want an alternate way to get the silver blood for the use of improving an item of good. Would that be enough to justify being able to ask Adalon for a small sample of her blood? I was thinking from a RP prospective. Obviously a creature of good's blood can be used for good as well.

    I realize that the developers want you to kill Adalon to make such a powerful and evil item. That's their intent, I know that. I just always found it rather unfair that if your an evil PC, you only get one option and you miss out on a ton of experience/items/story. Evil people can also be non-violent problem thinkers, charismatic, and 3-dimensional. I really don't care about the armor AT ALL. I care about being about to make choices. I mean, if you didn't betray Adalon and did everything you were supposed to then as a reward you could ask her for some blood, I'm sure she would be fine with that.
  • I could see this if the item were a different version like 'Donated Silver Dragon Blood', that could be used to buff some good-focused gear but could NOT be used to complete the Human Flesh Armor of Stanky Evil.
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited November 2013
    Worg said:

    Ryan said:

    ......You could give the flesh to an evil character in support of your mission for the greater good.

    THE GREATER GOOD!
    Lol, I almost fell out of my chair XD

    With soooo many valuable, powerful, and enchanted items in the game, it's hard to believe that a good character would want to invest time in creating something so evil when there are plenty of non-morally-objectionable alternatives that would probably serve him/her just as well.

    It would be like finding a jacket that fits you absolutely perfectly...but just happens to be emblazoned with a bunch of Swastikas on the back. You could try and justify buying it to your friends, but who are you really fooling?
  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    Really now...

    What's the point in even giving the option to kill a Dragon, that's a tough challenge, if you could just ask her to cut herself, just so you can use an Item of pure evil, to support your supposedly good character's missions?

    If your characters were truly the purest of good, from the RP perspective, you wouldn't even be having this thought to complete the item. It's pure evil and your supposedly 'good' character wouldn't even pick it up, let alone think about completing it. Absurd logic is absurd... :s
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    @Icecreamtub Okay. Good alignments most likely would be repulsed by the human flesh armor. I was playing devil's advocate here. I'm usually thinking as a neutral character/grey character. They can justify certain things that good alignments cannot. Also, evil people shouldn't have to kill everything. You can be evil without being a damn brute. One small prick from a dragon would easily be enough for a vial so it's really no big deal.

    @Cyteen Think of this: You're Adalon the silver dragon, the PC and party is going to help you out. The PC is very intelligent and charismatic. The PC helps you out, doesn't take your eggs, and does a lot of good. The PC only asks for a vial of your blood. Now you know that this person may or may not be shady, but that's the trade off. The PC assures you that the blood has nothing to do with you or your kin, nor will it directly harm anyone. You believe the PC.

    @Purudaya That jacket can always be re-bleached and have a new design on it. You can also put a light cloak over, just about, anything else to hide what's underneath.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    LiamEsler said:

    The point of the human flesh armor is that you need to commit heinous acts to complete it. Removing the need to kill Adalon would make it far less impactful. :)

    Can so i get the same quest experience points by killing her that give the eggs back grant me? cos 72.000 quest experience points for each character is a lot more than 68.000 of normal experience points you get for killing her. (it's something like that)

  • @Ryan Think of this: The silver dragon possesses godlike intelligence, can see into your heart, and is not fooled by your promises. She places a geas on you preventing you from using her blood for evil purposes, or just refuses to give it to you at all. :P
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236
    ... I guess it makes sense to have the option to ask, but I don't think she'd say yes. Firstly, from a magic perspective and the fact the original crafting was made by serial killing rather than robbing fresh graves, I suspect the rituals behind the armor are more about the evil than about the blood, so it's possible that freely given blood wouldn't work.

    From an RP perspective, if you're a truly good character, it would probably be more 'good' of you to destroy the armor and punish the people behind making such a vile item. And for an evil character, well... unless you're doing it just to be evil, there's better armor to be had that doesn't require potentially pissing off a dragon by saying, "Pleeeeeease bleed into this bottle for me I SWEAR I won't use it to break all the laws of god and man."

    And from a game perspective, the Human Flesh armor just isn't that great anyway. No Evil-aligned leather-wearers in an unmodded game, and if your evil MC wears leather, there's already plenty of options that are just as good or better. Basically the only reason you'd need it is if you had Viconia and really, REALLY didn't wanna drop a STR-boosting item on her, locking her out of the easily available menagerie of awesome Plate and Full Plate. XD
  • Hexxat wears leather, just fyi. And she wears it WELL. :)
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236
    Cyteen said:

    Hexxat wears leather, just fyi. And she wears it WELL. :)

    Right, right, keep forgetting about her! But I assume that wearing human skin all day would just make her hungry. XD
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Pickpocket blood sample??????????????????
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236
    Pretend to be a wandering blood bank for disadvantaged dragons, seeking donations.
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    edited November 2013
    @Cyteen
    Cyteen said:

    @Ryan Think of this: The silver dragon possesses godlike intelligence, can see into your heart, and is not fooled by your promises. She places a geas on you preventing you from using her blood for evil purposes, or just refuses to give it to you at all. :P

    Haha, yeah this would be true IF she was actually smart. If you've ever done an evil play-through then you know what I'm talking about. She's pretty easily fooled. Asking for her blood would be easy-peasy in comparison.
    Post edited by Ryan on
  • RyanRyan Member Posts: 14
    edited November 2013
    @Moczo
    Moczo said:

    I suspect the rituals behind the armor are more about the evil than about the blood, so it's possible that freely given blood wouldn't work.

    Well if this is true then I could accept that.

    I really, really dislike that neutral and especially evil alignments get screwed out of so much exp., items, quests and etc... because they only have one option and it's kill everything 'cause you're a dumb evil brute, even though you're probably not. Like if you don't play good, you miss out on a large chunk of the game. Look at Knight's of the Old Republic for example. You could play good or evil and they both get equivalent rewards.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    I don't see how evil alignments necessarily get screwed out of so much xp. You can pretend to help out the dragon and then give her eggs away to the demon.

    And to be honest that's probably the smart thing to do. Typically you will get to the underdark as a mid level adventuring party so having a fight with an old, powerful silver dragon is likely to end badly. Far more sensible to play along with her idea : in the hopes of getting an opportunity to turn the tables later.
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236
    And evil players can get extra EXP from Firkraag by selling him the deed to Windspear Hills. Then murdering him. And making armor from HIS skin. Better than Human skin!

    Though the evil ending to the Druid Grove quest does totally suck, yes.
  • WorgWorg Member Posts: 170
    I think the bottom line to this thread is to be able to "finish" this quest. How about being able to get fake holy blood that would ruin the evil ritual?
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited November 2013
    Worg said:

    I think the bottom line to this thread is to be able to "finish" this quest. How about being able to get fake holy blood that would ruin the evil ritual?

    Moczo said:

    And evil players can get extra EXP from Firkraag by selling him the deed to Windspear Hills. Then murdering him. And making armor from HIS skin. Better than Human skin!

    Though the evil ending to the Druid Grove quest does totally suck, yes.

    In fact it's an set fact in baldur's gate that good playthroughs always got more xp than evil playthroughs, this isn't even argued in the old discussions.

    Nowdays, with Dorn and Hexxat quest this can be changed a bit at least if you make their quests.

    In the old days, the only quest that truly compensate by being evil as Frikgaark quest, and STILL you get less party experience being evil than if you play good. It's something like 48.000 for each character being evil x 55.000 for each character being good or something like that.

    In the Druid Grove and Trademeet you receive the GREATEST DUMP in xp for being evil.

    Adalon is the 2° next greatest dump in xp for play evil.

    Edit: The penality for purchases in low rep is still in the game... rep 2 or 1 make ridiculous hard to buy something... i can kill the guy if i don't like his face and he raise the price 10x for me? Cmon?
    Post edited by kamuizin on
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