Black Pits Request: Integration with main game.
kamuizin
Member Posts: 3,704
Well The core of this request is very simple, i wish the game tocapture an final save of the game (after Baeloth's death), and i make an request that this final saved game to be loadeable on Baldur's Gate main saga.
The result of load an ended black pit game on Baldur's Gate main saga would be an "New Game Plus", where some (or many) items held by the party, monsters, quests and maybe NPCs (not joinable) would appear on that run of Baldur's Gate main saga started with an "New Game Plus".
Why do this?
To give an sense of reward in replay Black Pits Saga. To raise replayability on Black Pits. To raise Replayability on Baldur's Gate Main Saga. To give the players the chance to work to enjoy new content (the harder it is to get something, the more we value that).
How to do this?
1° - Change the Black pit so the achievement of some itens would block others (specially items that can be carried on a New Game Plus to the main history). Make this in the proportion and reasons that whomever does feel right. The impossibility of making everything in only one run is the first key for replayability.
2° - Quests in main game based on the NPCs on BP.
Make the NPCs salersman prone to befriend and like the BP party, but make the pursue of friendship with some NPCs to block the achievement of it with others (the end can be the same for all i care, but the 2 salesmans that battle in the final battle can feel a bit bad only of killing the BP party). This should influence which quests would be avaliable.
Can even be used to define which items from Black Pits will be viable to get on the main saga, making not only needed the possesion of the item but the pursue of the right friendship in the Black Pits to make the item accessible on the main saga.
3° - New monsters in new and old areas.
Be they on the new quests introduced by this suggestion, or on old areas (no problem in add content, it's just the replace of content that's forbidden), the introduction of some Baldur's Gate 2 Monsters could be pretty amazing and raise a bit the challenge of the game (that atm is ridiculous easy). An stone golem or Rakasha as i said in an previous post, An Nabassu on the right place, a vampire or/and a mummy to scale the odds (i think a lich can be too much, but then i killed some lichs at lvl 8/9 in BG2).
Suggestions to scale difficult of the quests:
In Baldur's Gate 2 it's aknowledge that some quests or events can be triggered based on conditions. Valen appears after 15.000 gold is gathered on chapter 3, romanceable NPCs personal quests are delayed by the romance banters when the romance is being pursued, guards will appear to attack the main char with an rep of 3 or less... an therefore on.
The access to some quests could be limited to an minimun level cap before they're triggered, to an minimum amout of gold with the party (and an early new merchant selling some basic weapons to hit anything that requieres an minimum magical level to be hurt... or some tips only will be enough).
Well that's my suggestin. Agree, like, gimme an insightful, disagree, criticize, give alternatives or suggestions... just explain your opinion.
An word from someone of the team speaking about the possibility of this implement would be welcome also.
The result of load an ended black pit game on Baldur's Gate main saga would be an "New Game Plus", where some (or many) items held by the party, monsters, quests and maybe NPCs (not joinable) would appear on that run of Baldur's Gate main saga started with an "New Game Plus".
Why do this?
To give an sense of reward in replay Black Pits Saga. To raise replayability on Black Pits. To raise Replayability on Baldur's Gate Main Saga. To give the players the chance to work to enjoy new content (the harder it is to get something, the more we value that).
How to do this?
1° - Change the Black pit so the achievement of some itens would block others (specially items that can be carried on a New Game Plus to the main history). Make this in the proportion and reasons that whomever does feel right. The impossibility of making everything in only one run is the first key for replayability.
2° - Quests in main game based on the NPCs on BP.
Make the NPCs salersman prone to befriend and like the BP party, but make the pursue of friendship with some NPCs to block the achievement of it with others (the end can be the same for all i care, but the 2 salesmans that battle in the final battle can feel a bit bad only of killing the BP party). This should influence which quests would be avaliable.
Can even be used to define which items from Black Pits will be viable to get on the main saga, making not only needed the possesion of the item but the pursue of the right friendship in the Black Pits to make the item accessible on the main saga.
3° - New monsters in new and old areas.
Be they on the new quests introduced by this suggestion, or on old areas (no problem in add content, it's just the replace of content that's forbidden), the introduction of some Baldur's Gate 2 Monsters could be pretty amazing and raise a bit the challenge of the game (that atm is ridiculous easy). An stone golem or Rakasha as i said in an previous post, An Nabassu on the right place, a vampire or/and a mummy to scale the odds (i think a lich can be too much, but then i killed some lichs at lvl 8/9 in BG2).
Suggestions to scale difficult of the quests:
In Baldur's Gate 2 it's aknowledge that some quests or events can be triggered based on conditions. Valen appears after 15.000 gold is gathered on chapter 3, romanceable NPCs personal quests are delayed by the romance banters when the romance is being pursued, guards will appear to attack the main char with an rep of 3 or less... an therefore on.
The access to some quests could be limited to an minimun level cap before they're triggered, to an minimum amout of gold with the party (and an early new merchant selling some basic weapons to hit anything that requieres an minimum magical level to be hurt... or some tips only will be enough).
Well that's my suggestin. Agree, like, gimme an insightful, disagree, criticize, give alternatives or suggestions... just explain your opinion.
An word from someone of the team speaking about the possibility of this implement would be welcome also.
1
Comments
Few mods released and fewer of relevance. The Devs decided to make the new NPCs boring as the old ones (in terms of activity) so they don't obscure the use of the old ones.
Black Pits was nice in my first run of it but i can't find a single reason to play it again.
I see a lot of potential, even with all the restrictions on the assignment of rights, yet even what can be done has a feeling of poor work, sorry if someone doesn't like of my statement, is how i'm feeling about the game just now.
We have 4 New NPCs, a bit better introduced than moded NPCs but still far from seizing all the potential they have. Some few (very few) new items, what any half worked mod would make better and some interface and customise enhancements.
Speaking by heart now, i love Baldur's Gate, but i can't help but feel that this isn't worth the title of BG EE yet, a well moded BGT is still largely more enjoynable than the actual Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition.
Ps: I only found tolerance to finish my evil run after the introduction of Baeloth and by stop my gameplay in the half for somedays to make my first run on the Black Pits, then going back to BG main saga and finishing it.
Ps2: We're on April, has more or less 5 months since the release of the game and this forum is spreading the strong feeling of an attempt of evade from the work. We make requests here and rarely something is even noticed, what to say about implemented. Most of the times people say to let an feature requested to be moded rather than being implemented and at the end neither one or another is done. Most of the already done old mods are still largely incompatible with BG EE.
I'm gonna get some flame for this post, i know, but i had to write this. It's what i feel as a customer, as a fan, as someone that expect a lot and see an awesome potential being wasted.
Integration Black Pits to main game is great idea.
I like to see it like Baeloth personal Q, triggered after CHARNAME reach Baldurs Gate.
We just need little bit nerf rewards with merchants and add option leave Black Pits.
After all Baeloth is ours "friend" now...
I'm not much worried about the rewards being overpowered, as long the strong enemies from the black pits and other monster kinds of BG2 integrate the main saga.
Are you sure with that New Game Plus ?
It´s very easy reach XP cap even in standard game...
Also you will be to much OP with another pile attribute books...
And you can´t transfer ( almost ) any items to BG2 ( with repaired pause cheat )
What reason will have Game Plus then ?
The New Game Plus is the way to transfer your Black Pit saved game Data to be used on the main saga as a package of bonus you're entitled to have based in what you made or achieved on that Black Pits run.
When you make a new game on Baldur's Gate, you can import either an exported character or a saved game, what i meant by New Game Plus, is to import that final save from Black pits.
It will not pre-set any character but will load the bonus you're entitled to have for this New game, for that the name "New Game Plus"
Obs:
when you import an saved game, you choose the save and open it to choose which character you want to import. The import of an black pit game will not give the option of load any character, it will only infuse this new game with the data of that black pits run.
I rather see Black Pits like part standart game.
[spoiler] Baeloth can be found as an NPC in Lars-wood
NOBODY here doesn't know it.
It was a good call to put it as a spoiler.
When I entered this thread, I assumed that it was going to be a request to access the Black Pits content using the PC's party through some mechanism, and then return to the main game. I'd much rather play Black Pits this way than with NPCs I don't have much affection for.
The capacity to unlock goodies for BGEE is also a decent idea, especially if the devs intend to do stuff anyway and want players to experience Black Pits.
It's funny in fact the phrase "Except Baeloth...", if Baeloth and the beholder where integrated by the devs in the main game, would you say "Except Baeloth and the Beholder..."?
"How" to do the integration, you can "see" in the Open Post
If done in this way, the xp should be greatly modified. The way it is now, it is clear that the Black Pits was meant to be a stand alone adventure.
Record the NPC (storekeepers) relations, items carried, answers given in banters, at the end of Black Pits an final save is done, an final save loadeable in BG main saga, when loaded there it will work as a New Game +, sending you to character generation screen and giving specific new contents on that new game, based in what you achieved in Black Pits.
I like the idea of having a New Game +, from BP to BGEE, and i pictured something interesting:
When you import BP to your new BGEE game, you will add contents to BGEE that brings your BP characters into Baldur's Gate areas. We should have something like 8 standard spots with small questlines involving them, and your BP Characters are inserted on BGEE as NPCs (joinable or not) who could bring one or more magic equipment that is exclusive from BP into BGEE.
I think it is very interesting and could make both BP and BGEE highly replayable.
But anuyay that could be very interesting @Itomon, if not too hard to code (cos the variations can be many). Probally an alignment + class check would be needed to define which banters would be triggered (and that can be an pretty amount of work to be done).
Of course the item drop would need an huge restriction to not make the BP party a walking Dragon's Hoard.
Translation: (XX Feature) is a format for the Black Pits characters where XX is the alignment and "feature" is required race/class that would fit for that questgiver. "X" alignment means it may be anything.
(Reward) is one or more items from the imported Savegame)
a) (XN or XE Mage) - A quest in High Hedge where (XN/XE Mage) is willing to steal something from Thalantyr the mage; the item to be stolen is (Reward).
b) (XG Fighter/Thief) - A quest where (XG Fighter/Thief) and some Flaming Fists are hunting Viconia; kill her to gain (Reward). (there may be other options as well)
c) (CX Whatever) - The (CX Whatever) is a joinable NPC who wants to clear Naskhel mines with you. If he gets below 20% HP or otherwise threatened, he will give up adventuring life, giving his stuff and (Reward) before leaving the party for good
At the end of the game, when imported, the game takes a survey of the items on those characters (physically equipped) and compare them to a chart that rates these items based on... whatever is appropriate to based the items on. It would also be nice to see an explorable area change to reflect that the BP character was there.
A chart of probable encounters spread out through the various maps. 6 randomly selected encounters out of a list of x.
Who knows, maybe having a special encounter is something of its own reward. A group of half-ogres that had to flee an area due to a powerful passbyer forces the charname to fight them, granting a reward.