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BG2 Having trouble with Mages *Please help*

Magic in general. I am finding it really frustrating that around every corner I might get confused, stunned, feared, etc. Or I might have a magic using enemy render itself immune to my physical damage. So I try a Cleric because I want to go melee and still be able to dispel some annoying magic or cure poison but still having a tough time. Any suggestions from BG2 pros?

Thanks

Comments

  • karlb1025karlb1025 Member Posts: 5
    Thank you for the help!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    What party members do you have?
  • stargazerbstargazerb Member Posts: 57
    Take heart, I've been playing BG2 since it came out and I still often have trouble.

    1st advice, take Keldorn with you. His dispel magic is much better than your own mages' (a kit perk) and his true sight is really helpful, too.

    Other than that, mage protections come in a few different categories. Physical protections like stone skin need breach to take them down. Spell protections like minor glove of invulnerability need spell thrust or secret word or pierce magic. Against an equal level mage, dispel magic only has a 50% chance of working.

    Mages will also have contingencies that put up a new stone skin or whatever else when they reach a certain point, so be ready to cast breach again. Yes, you can beat the stone skin out of him but that's more than enough time for him to cast chaos on your whole party. Breach is more effective.

    Use oracle, invisibility purge or true sight (or a thief's detect illusions) to get rid of invisibility spells. This is especially important against the stronger invisibility spells like mislead and project image. These have to go first because until you can see the mage you can't target him with spells to get rid of his other protections.

    Summon Nishruu and Summon Hakeashar can be devastating against mages, especially groups of them. Or cast an area effect spell like cloudkill or death fog. I very often in SoA lay down 2 or 3 webs, a greater malison, then 3 or 4 cloudkills, and I just leave and wait. Maybe not the most heroic way to fight, but it works.

    Any items that protect against confusion, charm dominate and fear you should keep throughout the game, like the shield of harmony and peridan. Also, look through your spell lists of what spells can protect you...there's a good chance the mage will take down your protections very quickly, but they might give you just enough chance to fight back.
    Akihikobman86
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    edited November 2013
    these guys have covered the major bases.

    As mentioned, Keldorn has a bad ass dispel magic as one of his paladin abilities, which is really handy to not only debuff but to recover confused, held companions. Plus he has free action by way of his default armour. Fit him with Carsomyr +5 (which you get off Firkragg; 50% magic resistance), and he is effectively a mage killing mofo...his detractor is that he has this habit of getting into sword fights with some of the other party members

    Also, I find some companions with ranged weapons helps to interrupt spell casting. Dispel magic, then concentrated ranged fire
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    edited November 2013
    True Seeing/Sight, Breach, Lower Resistance or Pierce Magic, Greater Malison, and Dispel for clean up. Memorize these spells, have magic casters utilize them, and dominate.

    Remember that poison attacks work really well in interrupting their spells, and Druids can cast insect-spells that can damage and disrupt casters as well.

    You don't even need Keldorn, or hell, even Carsomyr. But you *WILL* need those spells I mentioned if you want to butt heads with some of the more powerful casters in the game, such as dragons, who cast protection spells on themselves at the start of every fight.
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    What a great thread. I suck at fighting mages, so this is great for me to refer to! I usually try a dispel, see it doesn't work, sigh, then charge in and melee with my fingers crossed. There are so many darn removal spells....
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'll bring up Khelben's Warding Whip. It's a mage spell that removes one spell protection per round for a few rounds. It's pretty handy too. Personally my favorite go-to is Pierce Magic though, since sooooooo many enemies have way high magic resistance.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    This spreadsheet explains the interactions for spell protections.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLScCUe7V__dE1RaEhCbm5na0VlakQwYVMxOFJVc1E#gid=0

    As you can see, in the default game Breach is amazing and penetrates just about anything except lich defenses. Once you land Breach you can just hit them until they go down. With SCS, if it's not a lich the easiest way to kill them is usually to use a 5th level or higher AoE.

    Liches are left as an exercise for the reader :)
    (outside of cheese you'll probably have to do it the hard way, taking down their defenses one layer at a time)
    jackjack
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Liches make excellent, if brutally unforgiving teachers.
    nanoKidCarnival
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited November 2013
    True sight and similar spells and abilities are much, much more important than you might initially think. Not only is a mage with Improved Invisibility harder to hit, but she also can't be targeted with any of the spells needed to bring down her defenses. Without a way to dispel the invisibility, there's basically nothing your mages can do about her.

    Also, pre-buffing can be crucial. It does take a little metagaming, but when you're about to enter a big fight, it can be useful to try out different buffs to see what protects against what (it's easier to get a feel for this than to try and remember spell effects by rote).

    I've been playing this game for years and I still run into problems once in a while (how did my fully-buffed kensai-mage just get paralyzed/held?!). There are frustrating moments - but if you stick with it, the battles where you get the spell buffs/debuffs *just right* and totally devastate a powerful enemy are REALLY rewarding. Keep experimenting, check out some online guides, and don't be afraid to play with the difficulty slider if you start getting really frustrated :)
    GamingFreak
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    So what the heck is dispel magic even for?
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Dispel Magic, if it succeeds, removes ALL buffs and debuffs from EVERYONE in the spell area (well except for Sphere of Invulnerability but let's ignore that). It can be used both offensively (dispelling buffs from enemies) or defensively (debuffs from friendlies). In that it differs from the spell Remove Magic, which works exactly the same except it ONLY dispels enemies.

    There's several situations in which Dispel Magic's properties can be advantageous. For example, an invisible enemy can be dispelled simply by targeting the general area; or you can free several party members from their debuffs at once; and so on.

    Using Dispel Magic to its greatest effect certainly takes some practice and planning. But it can be devastatingly effective if used correctly, particularly in the early and mid game. That is why Inquisitors are so incredibly (over)powerful - they have an instant cast, almost guaranteed-to-hit dispel available to them from the start.

    Later on in the game you can end up with enough specific tools that you no longer need to use Dispel Magic. Your own saving throws become to high and your buffs so powerful that you'll rarely dispel yourself, and you have all you need to dispel just the right amount off of your enemies to kill them without needing to go for the nuclear option. Ironically, the (non-Inquisitor) Dispel Magic becomes more and more potent the higher your level - while at the same time your own need to use it decreases. Another reason why Inquisitors are so good.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    rdarken said:

    So what the heck is dispel magic even for?

    Let's put it this way: Say a mage has mirror image, globe of invunerability, haste, blah blah up. You cast an inquisitor's Dispel Magic effect, and many of those buffs will go "bye-bye". If a mage nabs a party member with a Hold effect, you can dispel that. Dispel Magic is kind of like a buff-styled fireball, and it hits everyone in a large viscinity, but it's reliable to cast it to clean out anything that spells like breach or true sight didn't clean out.

    Also let me state that if you save often, and happened to get into a deadly mage fight and lose due to illusion spells being as evil as they are, re-load, and cast True Sight *BEFORE* the fight begins. This will help tremendously in the mage fights. I cannot stress enough how important that spell is. And Inquisitors get it for free as a class ability (Making Keldorn a bit more useful despite some of his stat weaknesses)
  • DrEastDrEast Member Posts: 113
    Ruby Ray of Reversal is worth pointing out since it's Alteration, not Abjuration, and can thus bring down Spell Immunity: Abjuration. Very important in SCS.
    Tsyrithjackjackaqzinametaentity
  • TsyrithTsyrith Member Posts: 180
    That's why it works, I've always wonder why the level 8 Pierce Shield equivalent has a hard time until I spend some ruby rays. Also, they have a fast cast for their level, 5 instead of Pierce Shield's 8.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I thought SI:Abjuration only blocks Dispel (and Breach in SCS) and not any of the specific antimagic spells. SI:Divination is the worse one because it blocks true sight.

    SI is annoying in general because it's a low level protection and I think the removers target the highest level first. So if you use secret words or ruby rays etc. you have to get through all the 6th and higher level defenses like Globe of Invulnerability before you can even touch SI. Spell Thrust doesn't have that problem because it targets all protections of 5th and lower but it's blocked by all the higher protections so you have to get through them anyways.

    Or you can just do what I do and use thief Detect Illusions. It's pretty awesome because it can't be blocked at all. Except in some very specific cases with nondetection, I think (there always has to be an exception, doesn't there?)
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    By the way, isn't the chance for dispelling a debuff like Chaos on your own party determined by the dispeller's level and the level of the enemy who cast the debuff? Nothing to do with saves or party member's level, right? I think you can use Remove Magic to dispel debuffs on your own party as well, without touching their buffs. But it doesn't work very often because of how high the enemy levels are.
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