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We hate mages yes we do! we hate mages how about you!

Notes ahead of time: a similar setup will likely be used in BG1 but in reality this party is made with a BG2EE mindsetup, and that is that mages/wizards are the root of all evil. As such I'm looking for characters who are either A. good against mages, or B. have a reason to hate mages and due to this, will likely be good aligned.

This entire group is centered around what is widely considered one of the more useless kits/classes and most useless fighter kid around, the Wizard Slayer.

The PC:
Dwarf Wizard Slayer
Axes, Hammers, Maybe Flails. Will probably reach grand mastery in hammers first since BG1 has the +2 hammer but I don't know of any +2 or greater axes in the game.

The Support:
Keldorn: Carsomyr and an Inquisitor in their natural role.
Valygar: Provides an opener against pesky magelets from stealth, and well the Cowled Wizards DO hate him
Rasaad: He doesn't hate mages, but monks versus wizards is unfair at higher levels
Imoen: A. she's my sister, B. I had to go RESCUE her from Valygar's favorite people (sarcasm warning) due to their own arrogance and stupidity.

The last slot is where I have an issue. Obviously I need a divine caster here, and Aerie is prolly what this group will call for. Anomen would make sense, except that we already have 4 other melee. Futhermore, while I might do the quests for other party members, I probably won't have a real arcane caster until I get Imoen back. Still not certain though, as melee zergs late in ToB can be as devastating as the time stopped wizard, you just need to rest for heal spells instead of damage spells =/

Other things to note: I Will build crom faeyr (only way my poor little magic hating dwarfie will get 25 str) but I'll prolly offhand it with axe of unyielding. The question becomes do I max Axes before putting points in DW or after.

I figure BGEE will be starting like:
Axes: ++
Hammers: ++ 3(+) 6(+)

In BG2EE you'd go:
Axes: ++
Hammers: ++++ 9(+)

Which means at 12, 15, 18 you can either grand master axes or attain mastery in TWF and fill out the other in ToB. Thoughts?

(Also in BP and BP2 I think I'd sub Valygar for an Elven Archer).

FredjoRnRClown

Comments

  • DisgruntlerDisgruntler Member Posts: 100
    Use either Cernd or Jaheira for your last slot. Insect plague is one of the best spells against mages and bypasses a lot of their protective spells.

    booinyoureyes
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    On a side note, I feel sorry for Valygar on my playthrough. My other party members are Aerie, Nalia, Neera, my hero is a Blade, and I'm gonna take Imoen soon. It's like his worst nightmare. :)

    booinyoureyes
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Something like this would work better with a custom group:

    Wizard Slayer
    Wizard Slayer 9 / Druid dual class for the fun of it.
    Elven Archer (these guys are the bane of enemy casters and interrupt them great).
    Anti mage sorcerer with mage debuff spells.

    booinyoureyes
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    Mungri the problem I have with dualing a wizard slayers is that I love the concept of a dwarven wizard slayer as much as an elven archer. I'm thinking a specialist mage abjurer maybe.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    You hate mages well f- you! You hate mages I'll kill you!image
    ;)-

    laptopman666booinyoureyes
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I was fooling with a mageless custom party this morning but haven't got it to my liking yet - Dwarf Defender is my current lead then probably a Paladin kit, Wizard slayer, and either a Barbarian or elven archer with a fighter/thief & fighter/cleric or maybe I'll go with a cleric/thief and take both a barbarian and an archer.- I was thinking cross bow (firetooth) for the archer.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    I prefer bows to crossbows @Wanderon simply due to a higher APR

  • TsyrithTsyrith Member Posts: 180
    edited November 2013
    On your proficiencies, I would recommend maxxing your MH weapon first, because that'll be hitting for 3x/round (+1/2 with th-OH I'M SO SORRY). Also, you won't get the grandmastery or specialised bonus +APR from something in your offhand.

    I have a Berserker with 5 in long swords happily carrying around a Crom Faer in my OH with 1 proficiency in it, the rest is just gravy, including the +14 damage modifier from strength.

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Surely your last slot should go to Viconia, with her spell resistance she obviously hates mages too. Dealing with the fallout between her and Keldorn is a different issue though...

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    All you Crom Faeyr offhanders make me and Cromwell sad...

    TsyrithMetallomanSCARY_WIZARDbooinyoureyes
  • UlothiUlothi Member Posts: 6
    But mages are weak they die with one shot from behind(ofc hiding in shadow) they cant stay protected at all times so you go behind and BAM. 200 crit backstab and results one less evil wisard this works on *most* wisards but you have to know before where they are and surprise is key to victory. My recommodation is to use thiefs with some very powerful weapons that you can't normally field without skill(need high lvl one).

  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    Too bad you can't place Spell Immunity Abjuration on the enemy as a part of your preparations... That would only block every form of protection outside of Mirror Image, Invisibility and Stoneskin... and 2 of those can easily be removed with divination.

    Tsyrith
  • TsyrithTsyrith Member Posts: 180
    That'd actually make for an interesting twist on Spell Immunity, making it such that you're immune to even the beneficial effects of those schools, as the various spell-shields are by and large Abjuration spells, so if you wanted to keep your illusions or alterations safe from removal with dispelling, you'd need to sacrifice spell trap, turning, shield, resist energy and so on.

  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
    edited November 2013


    Axes, Hammers, Maybe Flails. Will probably reach grand mastery in hammers first since BG1 has the +2 hammer but I don't know of any +2 or greater axes in the game.

    IIRC (and I do) there's a +2 Axe in BG:EE



    Gretek in Helm and Cloak in Northwest Baldur's Gate

    http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/melee.html

    Quartz
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    edited November 2013
    Tsyrith said:

    That'd actually make for an interesting twist on Spell Immunity, making it such that you're immune to even the beneficial effects of those schools, as the various spell-shields are by and large Abjuration spells, so if you wanted to keep your illusions or alterations safe from removal with dispelling, you'd need to sacrifice spell trap, turning, shield, resist energy and so on.

    I was thinking more along the lines of spells from that school being unable to effect on you and ongoing effects remain, but by placing it on a mage before they put on their protections, they would be unable to cast the typical protections on themselves preventing them from being practically immortal for a few rounds...

    Besides, according to the description of Spell Immunity states that "All spells of this school will not be able to harm or aid the caster for the duration of this spell."

    It should if block the useage of protection spells if cast first.

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    yeah i've got this group:

    gnome WS
    valygar (hates mages)
    keldorn (anti-mage kit)
    hexxat (only non-mage thief other than Yoshimo)
    viconia (i went for her for divine support because of the high MR%)
    edwin (took him in bgee, because of his quest to kill dynaheir, which appealed to the WS. then he gets you to murder another mage in bg2. he's a wizard slayer's wizard for sure!)

    i put daggers and clubs on the WS, because of dagger of venom in bgee (for extra mage stopping power) and clubs (for the gnasher in bg2ee) and because smaller weapons looks better on shorties.

  • laptopman666laptopman666 Member Posts: 283
    meagloth said:

    You hate mages well f- you! You hate mages I'll kill you!image
    ;)-

    lol awesome picture. purify them with nuclear fire!! (evil laugh)

  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 268
    Fenten in Baldur's Gate has a golden axe +1, 10% chance dispel magic on hit.
    In Durlag's Tower there's an axe + 0 (meh) with miscast magic on hit.
    Both sound very fitting for a dwarven wizard slayer.

    Damn... now you made me want to play a dwarven wizard slayer...

  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493
    Viconia would probably make the most sense for the cleric slot. She's highly magic resistant, and if I'm remembering my drow lore correctly, the mages fell more on the male side, which were looked down upon.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    @CutlassJack

    You're right they do look down upon them, at least in Menzoberran, where Viconia is originally from.

    @Alkalurops

    Muahahahahah and I had forgotten about both of those axes.

    @mjs

    The issue I see with Edwin is that my WS would be highly distrustful of him as well, being a red wizard of thay. I view my dwarf (having grown up in Candlekeep) as revering Mystra in a way, but the only way the dwarf can serve her is to try to stop evil mages. Not sure definitely something I'll consider, same for people who mentioned viconia.

    @Ulothi

    That's what Valygar will be for =)

    @Tsyrith

    I'm definitely going to do that, its just a matter of what I should main hand. The Warhammer +2 is early to acquire, and gets a better chance to hit against chain mail and plate mail, unlike axes where you're left with +1 until Baldur's Gate.

    @nano

    Chances are I'd likely MH Crom Faeyr until I upgraded Axe of the Unyielding for its vorpal effect etc. At that point it would be kinda silly to not MH AotU over it due to that chance at vorpal.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    @Decado

    That fallout between them, now that she's mentioned is a reason I'm hesitant. Yes she's a good cleric, especially in BG2, but when it comes to sheer mage stopping power Keldorn is boss.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    edited November 2013
    Now that I've thought about it:

    The reason for Imoen v Edwin is easy:

    I need some sort of actual thief and my choices are

    Thieves:
    Hexxat (who can't be in a party with Keldorn from what I've heard)
    Yoshimo (known outcome)
    Imoen (Missing for a large chunk of the game)
    Nalia (Almost makes sense until I get Imoen as I do end up gaining control of her keep, even more so if I end up using FoA)
    Jan.

    For the clerics/druids we have the following issues:
    Jaheria (I don't think I've ever completed a run with her. One day I'll figure out a good proper "canon" party to run with her).
    Anomen (A good choice, arguably a great choice since I can give him Flail of Ages, but again that will leave me with 5 melee at times. 4 of those are short range, where keldorn and his 2her is the exception. That said Anomen can transfer to tank right about the point I'm beginning to DW with my dwarf instead of Shielding it up.)
    Aerie (You rescue her early in the circus, and can make fantastic use of trigger and contigency spells throughout the saga).
    Cernd (Never used him for even a little bit, but I prolly will on the same playthrough I run a full neutral party just for giggles. Never been particularly interested in druids and I know that's a huge personal failing on my part).
    Viconia (MR is great, would look down upon mages due to her upbringing, gets into conflicts with Sir Keldorn of Carsomyr up his butt, who I do love as a character).

    Fighter types:
    Keldorn (pretty straight forward here in a party like this)
    Dorn (Evil version of Keldorn, available in BG1, unable to use Carsomyr though I think. Plus the instant dispel having played with it before is huge.)
    Valygar (Hates mages, Can backstab and still do pretty well in a straight up fight)
    Rasaad (Monk v Mage: No Contest)
    Minsc (TRAVELS WITH THEM THE PESKY HAMSTER LOVING twit. Ok ok jk I love Minsc but I doubt my Wizard Slayer would enjoy him having his own personal witch much).
    Korgain (Berserker, arguably better at this than my wizard slayer. Wants my hammers and axes so he loses)
    Mazzy (Pally wannabe, great with a short bow, downside is she really doesn't fit the pure anti mage niche as much as others. Besides I wanted to slap her last time I ran her and Valy together).

    Mages:
    Neera (uh huh ya right LOL, cause my wizard slayer would trust a wild mage. Only RP reason to bring her would be to try to keep her out of trouble).
    Edwin (He does like you killing mages, he's also a pure mage and a red wizard of thay. Prolly the type of person my wizard slayer is more likely to kill or keep eyes on than permanently run with).
    Haer'dalis (Putting him here since he doesn't fit anywhere else. He really won't have the arcane umph I need. And again I have TONS of melee.)

    Edit: Maybe I'll run through the BG1 NPC choices later to try to figure out a good group there too. I hear Rasaad and Viconia have some interesting dialogue.

  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493

    Now that I've thought about it:

    Edit: Maybe I'll run through the BG1 NPC choices later to try to figure out a good group there too. I hear Rasaad and Viconia have some interesting dialogue.

    They are fun together in the first game. The banter is more playful than agressive. They have no real problems with each other. If you go this route, Grab Viconia first. She gives some lines in the introductory conversation with Rasaad.

    Haven't gotten those two crazy kids together in the second game yet. So can't say if they continue to play nice.

  • SarlyssiaSarlyssia Member Posts: 27

    Haven't gotten those two crazy kids together in the second game yet. So can't say if they continue to play nice.

    Sadly not, in Rasaad's last quest there is a huge conflict with some Shar followers that results in Viconia leaving if you don't get out of there as soon as possible.

  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    Sarlyssia said:

    Haven't gotten those two crazy kids together in the second game yet. So can't say if they continue to play nice.

    Sadly not, in Rasaad's last quest there is a huge conflict with some Shar followers that results in Viconia leaving if you don't get out of there as soon as possible.
    That never happened in my game for some reason. Viconia moped a big, but she stayed with the group. Maybe it depends on your charisma or something?

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    @Mechalibur

    From what I've been reading this occurs in ToB

  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265

    @Mechalibur

    From what I've been reading this occurs in ToB

    That... makes more sense. I might be thinking of a different part of the quest.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    edited December 2013
    I think I figured out my BG2 party now for this wizard slayer, and now I need to figure out the party I am going to use for BG1.

    My BG2EE party is as follows:
    Dwarven WS PC LG most likely.
    Dreams of being a paladin of Mystra:
    Axes and Hammers (still can't decide what to get grand mastery in first. BG1 would allow me to get the golden axe +1 with a 10% dispel chance and offhand the miscast magic axe, but the problem there is the enchantment on the weapons. And since I'll likely be lawful good, breaking into a house doesn't particularly make sense. A +2 hammer is available early of course, I don't know of any that can actually touch Kuroag, then again axes can't either. But unlike slashing weapons, blunt weapons get bonuses to hit against some armor types.)

    The other downside for weapons is BG2. I know that in BG2, if you bee-line to Nalia's keep (which makes sense here), you gain 1 axe that is +3 and deals fire damage, and another +3 axe that does Acid/Frost damage (and I think Azure Edge is here too). I'm thinking axes might be the more solid option overall, but it will mean doing watchers keep earlier rather than later for Axe of the Unyielding, since Crom will likely be in the off-hand until somepoint in throne of bhaal.

    Keldorn:
    Carsomyr of course here, also crossbow and probably Halberd

    Anomen:
    Anomen meet flail of ages, flail of ages meet Anomen

    Valygar:
    Fairly straight forward here, might have him switch to a bow occasionally but mainly its going to be taking out high value targets with a katana. I don't feel I can properly run a Wizard Slayer party WITHOUT picking this guy up.

    Rasaad:
    Going to suck it up and take him through all of BG1 and BG2, knowing that he'll be a mage killing machine by the end of BG2.

    AFTER MUCH DEBATE:

    The last slot will be going to Imoen. I'm not sure how many other Good NPC quests I'll do with this party, I might free Aerie but I probably won't take her for the long haul. Also I MIGHT keep Nalia around long enough to do all of her subquests, since I'll rule the roost, but I am not sure. Imoen being my sister on the other hand, makes sense to take her. Maybe I'll take Nalia instead of Yoshimo thief wise, although that just seems wrong.


    Edit:
    I think I'll probably go with axes since I'm either going to make a dwarven f/c (who I'd use hammers on) or a dual class f/c (Hey flails) to bring along for the Canon party (Minsc, Jaheria, Imoen........and in BG2 considering the possible triangle and that she becomes Minsc' new witch; Aerie and Haer'dalis.......prolly dropping Haer'dalis for that ToB guy once I get there).

    BTW do the EE's have an option for taking multi-classes above specialization yet? That is the ONLY reason I'd dual class instead of my multi-classed dwarf.

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