Actually I'd say that's what this attribute states. 17 intelliigence at lvl 1 IS natural brilliance.
Level doesn't equal age, if that's what you mean, and besides, it's not a 3d edition we're talking about here - you can't raise an attribute in 2nd edition by leveling up. Why does a fighter have 18 strength at level 1? Maybe because he trained his body? Same with mage - he studied the Art and his mind. So roleplaying wise it is determined by the character's backstory before he\she becomes an adventurer. I'm sure there are some monks in Candlekeep or even commoners who are smarter and wiser than some mage playable characters, but since they are not out there in the world hacking & slaying and grinding for xp they are low-leveled. So, level equals power maybe?
Actually I'd say that's what this attribute states. 17 intelliigence at lvl 1 IS natural brilliance.
Level doesn't equal age, if that's what you mean, and besides, it's not a 3d edition we're talking about here - you can't raise an attribute in 2nd edition by leveling up. Why does a fighter have 18 strength at level 1? Maybe because he trained his body? Same with mage - he studied the Art and his mind. So roleplaying wise it is determined by the character's backstory before he\she becomes an adventurer. I'm sure there are some monks in Candlekeep or even commoners who are smarter and wiser than some mage playable characters, but since they are not out there in the world hacking & slaying and grinding for xp they are low-leveled. So, level equals power maybe?
Maybe because they're naturally gifted? It's perfectly possible to have a Mage that can bench-press a troll, or a Fighter with encyclopedic understanding of most of Candlekeep's library.
Actually I'd say that's what this attribute states. 17 intelliigence at lvl 1 IS natural brilliance.
Level doesn't equal age, if that's what you mean, and besides, it's not a 3d edition we're talking about here - you can't raise an attribute in 2nd edition by leveling up. Why does a fighter have 18 strength at level 1? Maybe because he trained his body? Same with mage - he studied the Art and his mind. So roleplaying wise it is determined by the character's backstory before he\she becomes an adventurer. I'm sure there are some monks in Candlekeep or even commoners who are smarter and wiser than some mage playable characters, but since they are not out there in the world hacking & slaying and grinding for xp they are low-leveled. So, level equals power maybe?
Maybe because they're naturally gifted? It's perfectly possible to have a Mage that can bench-press a troll, or a Fighter with encyclopedic understanding of most of Candlekeep's library.
Only as an exception maybe. because otherwise you're implying that all adventurers with high stats are inherently gifted individuals.
Level doesn't equal age, if that's what you mean, and besides, it's not a 3d edition we're talking about here - you can't raise an attribute in 2nd edition by leveling up.
Yes I know. And I think it's explains itself. Since you can't raise attributes by leveling up, it seems quite obvious that each of them represents your natural capabilities, which in this particular case would indicate that 17 intelligence IS natural brilliance.
Mentioning lvl 1 I meant Imoen at the beginning of the series, since there are a few moments when you can raise her intelligence magically (Tome of Clear Thought, Machine of Lum the Mad), but the 17 at the beginning is what she was born with.
Only as an exception maybe. because otherwise you're implying that all adventurers with high stats are inherently gifted individuals.
I'm pretty confident THIS is what makes an adventurer and what prevents your ordinary commoner from becoming an adventurer. Those who are extraordinary live an extraordinary life. If you're a commoner with 45 rolled stats, you will most likely NOT survive the life of an adventurer.
Imoen never studied under anyone. She never became a mage. She always remained the lovable klepto that you knew from BG1. "BG2" was just a wild, alcohol-induced dream that your charname had after celebrating the victory of Sarevok. Just like "Alien 3" was a dream that Ripley had while returning home after Aliens.
Only as an exception maybe. because otherwise you're implying that all adventurers with high stats are inherently gifted individuals.
I'm pretty confident THIS is what makes an adventurer and what prevents your ordinary commoner from becoming an adventurer. Those who are extraordinary live an extraordinary life. If you're a commoner with 45 rolled stats, you will most likely NOT survive the life of an adventurer.
Really? There are lots of examples, especially in various novels, how some village noob went on adventuring and even succeeded in not dying through sheer luck or powerful party. Like a certain hobbit. And not everyone with a class and level in the setting is an adventurer by default - there are lots of common npcs with ordinary lives who gained their levels through years of work and practice. Take a 7th level captain of the city guard, for example, or a cowled wizard. Actually, it's quite ridiculous how fast you earn levels in BG. But anyway, I disagree that high stats are what you're born with. It's just that the 2nd edition is not very flexible with stats - you just roll and go adventuring in some campaign. As I recall only old age penalties and bonuses are explained. And you can't be an adventurer if you're under a certain starting age. 3d edition is more logical in this way - you gain stats with levels.
Only as an exception maybe. because otherwise you're implying that all adventurers with high stats are inherently gifted individuals.
I'm pretty confident THIS is what makes an adventurer and what prevents your ordinary commoner from becoming an adventurer. Those who are extraordinary live an extraordinary life. If you're a commoner with 45 rolled stats, you will most likely NOT survive the life of an adventurer.
Really? There are lots of examples, especially in various novels, how some village noob went on adventuring and even succeeded in not dying through sheer luck or powerful party. Like a certain hobbit. And not everyone with a class and level in the setting is an adventurer by default - there are lots of common npcs with ordinary lives who gained their levels through years of work and practice. Take a 7th level captain of the city guard, for example, or a cowled wizard. Actually, it's quite ridiculous how fast you earn levels in BG. But anyway, I disagree that high stats are what you're born with. It's just that the 2nd edition is not very flexible with stats - you just roll and go adventuring in some campaign. As I recall only old age penalties and bonuses are explained. And you can't be an adventurer if you're under a certain age. 3d edition is more logical in this way.
Well, yeah. You can get lucky and get by with bad stats. It's just statistically unlikely to still be alive after a while.
And even in real life, we see huge differences between people, simply by virtue of their birth. Yes, you can work to become stronger or faster to an extent, but Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma are a different story.
If I recall correctly, your average dude in 2nd edition D&D was lucky if he got solid 10's in every stat. Adventures are a different breed and on a whole different level.
Imoen never studied under anyone. She never became a mage. She always remained the lovable klepto that you knew from BG1. "BG2" was just a wild, alcohol-induced dream that your charname had after celebrating the victory of Sarevok. Just like "Alien 3" was a dream that Ripley had while returning home after Aliens.
Honestly I always thought it was dumb that if you lose your spellbook all of the sudden you can't cast *anything* (other than a cantrip or two). Real life "learned" professions aren't debilitated to that extent. Imagine if lawyers needed to read every law in order to do anything? I mean, if a doctor loses his Netter's Atlas of Human Anatomy, he doesn't forget where the pancreas is!
They don't forget the basics of their day to day profession, but losing your reference data is HUGE. Lawyers need to look up case law all the time, and doctors need their charts and patient records to keep things straight. Engineers are hugely reliant on large databases of documents and drawings to be able to do their job. It would be like a programmer losing access to their classes and subroutines. You are no less a wizard if someone steals your spell book, but it will REALLY be a hindrance as far as the normal functions your spell book assist with.
Take a 7th level captain of the city guard, for example, or a cowled wizard.
I'd say the 7th level city guard captain or a cowled wizard isn't your ordinary commoner, eh? I have a feeling you are interpreting my words a bit too literally. I agree that the 3rd edition introduced a more logical way of how a character develops, but still it's your gift that lets you become someone capable of great deeds. The hobbit you mentioned became an adventurer, that's true, but who was he compared to the world he had to face? He was a brave kid with great burden, who would never achieve his goal, were it not for those high level guys with nice stats.
The captain was your common citizen who, at some point in his life, decided to join the city guard, managed to make his way up the ladder and became a respected member of this particular city's society. He is not like other folks, yes, he may survive when others will fall, he may be the hero who got rid of an infamous criminal, he's able to do things others cannot. But that's it. Maybe someday he'll quit, put on his armor and set off to seek adventures, maybe even he'll be successful, be a part of some minor events, his fame will spread across nearby villages and towns. But ultimately he'll die slain by your everyday drow you eat for dinner.
The word "adventurer" was just an example, I didn't mean that there are only Adventurers and Other People. For me every single character has a level as such, may it be the captain or a waitress in the Friendly Arm, but what you're born with is the main factor(but not the only one) that describes how far will you manage to get in your life.
______________________________________________________________________________ Xzar. The gibbering necromancer. Obviously.
______________________________________________________________________________ Necromancy is, notably, also the school of healing and tending to the soul. Xzar (once a relatively powerful mage) detected young Imoen from afar and investigated the dark taint she spread across the local astral space. Communing via dream spells they developed a rapport and Xzar came to view her as less an object of study and more a companion - even a would-be ward.
Being a bright lass the two had many long discussions about magery (this all being via dream those discussions were locked in her subconcious).
______________________________________________________________________________ For obvious reasons this relationship did not bare mageling fruit initially. Xzar wished to share secrets of the cosmos with her waking mind, but he feared how the potentially dangerous knowledge of necromancy might interact with her dark heritage. He resolved to cure her. To free her from the oppression of blood. The kindly and protective Xzar sought to sooth the young girl's soul by trying to extract and eliminate the Bhaal taint within her.
He half-succeeded. Thanks to Xzar young Imoen preserved her innocence -- her taint uniquely subdued among the bhaal-spawn. But Xzar himself paid a heavy price for interaction with the dead god's legacy -- madness and mental and moral decay.
______________________________________________________________________________ By the time the two meet at the beginning of BG1 neither remembers the other. Imoen because their long relationship is but a series of forgotten dreams. Xzar because he is a raving and depraved shade of his former self.
But some subconcious part of Imoen recognizes Xzar and trusts him -- Really, why else would you bring him and his companion (that threatens to murder you regularly) along after meeting them in suspicious circumstances when you know killers are hunting you?
______________________________________________________________________________ Sometime later; when Imoen has had a chance to grow and access to many dead mages' spellbooks. The long discussions with Xzar in her childhood dreams scratch at the surface of her consciousness -- and taking those books she carries on with the lessons Xzar started so long ago.
She sought neither power nor universal understanding in those books. Secretly, unknowingly she sought a means to cure the madness of a man she never truly met, but whose loss has always left her with a an aching sorrow she could not heal. The cruel, melancholic irony of her having spent so much time beside the man she desired to save without recognizing him is on of the main themes of Baldur's Gate. (A much more poignant parallel to the cordial interactions of the party with Gorion's killer and the general inaccessibility of one's true self represented by the revelation charname's and later Imoen's secret taint.) The only consolation is that she did beat her heritage and - unlike charname - even the removal of her soul (in BG2) wasn't enough to rekindle her dark spirit. All thanks to her mentor and protector. The good wizard necromancer: Xzar.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Really. This is all virtually spelled out in BG1. Maybe one needs to read between the lines a little. I'm surprised you'd even ask the question though.
The issues I see with Dynaheir, Edwin, Xzar, or a specialist character class is that Imoen is not in fact a specialist mage. Granted I don't know if she'd have to be an invoker to study under Dynaheir, but I'd like to think being one would skew things in Dynaheir's perspective some.
Also, I don't really understand why DC'ing results in loss of abilities from your first class... aside from a balancing perspective, it doesn't really make sense to me. Thus again Irenicus torture causing serious physical harm seems an appropriate explanation.
I realize this is tangential to the conversation (at best) but this is due to BG's implementation of dual-classing. In PnP a dual-classed character (that has not passed their original class levels) can always use their original class abilities, but is penalized experience for doing so (IIRC, you lose all experience from the current encounter and are then docked an additional percentage of experience from the entire session). A Fighter -> Mage could pick up a two-hander during a tough fight and start chopping stuff up, but they won't get experience for their Mage class by doing so. In Baldur's Gate, they just disable the old class to make it simpler.
@syllog thanks for clearing that up. It seems obvious now! And the Xzar/Imoen subplot continues in BG 2. When xzar is killed after the silly cameo quest, his soul travels to Imoen to strengthen her resolve to aid in resisting Irenicus' experiments whilst in Spellhold. Why else would they have put in that cameo?
@belgarathmth I want to point out one thing more, about 2E(3E) AD&D magic and other fantasy stuff, in Eragon (to be precise, the Inheritance Cycle, since I haven't saw the so bad movie based in the book) elves are like sorcerers/mages, because they can learn lots of spells, and they are a magical race, so they have innate magic, other human wizards are like mages, but they were like "chosen" and they also have some more magical power than others. Dragon Riders are like the elves, so nothing especial to mention here, I think Dragon Riders are like Dragon Disciples also :P, but without the fire immunity .
Then, in the books Elric of Melibone, magic is also something in the middle of sorcerer/mage, since some magical powers can be like a legacy (the lineage of the Emperors of Melibone is an example) and they ae innate-like, but then magic is something that *must* be studied to understand and use, since it consumes energies drastically, in others of Michael Moorcock's books like Corum's (sorry but I only read the first here, cannot find the others), magic comes from divine sources more than mortal sources, but Vadagh are a magical race, they have some superhuman abilities, like insta-plane-walking, looking to the planes in the conjunt they are and they have infravision, and other things loke super hearing frequency and other ultr-super-human sensory abilities. When Corum gets the "new" hand with 6 fingers that was from one of the Lost (Fighting) Gods, and he also gets an eye that makes him able to look in other planes and other conjunts of planes. Moorcock created some places/devices capables of bypassing planes, mainly they are the ship Elric gets in in The Sailor of the Seas of Fate with Corum (and Erkose!) and then the Evanescent Tower, another place he gets woth Corum (and Erkose!), that travels randomly around the planes, while the ship has a direction, but it is decided by Fate and it appears very strangely.
In the Song of Fire and Ice books (aka Gama of Thrones, I didn't watch the series but I've read the books) most of the magic is clerical, almost no ine stides arcane magic as it does not even exist.
I would have thought it would be Dynahair from the canon party.
Dynaheir makes the most sense to me, too. Perhaps not in the sense of a traditional apprenticeship, but as the one who recognized the gift and worked with her to cultivate it initially (basically through her first level or two).
I'd justify her escaping notice/training at Candlekeep on the grounds that she had some Arya Stark in her and couldn't take formal instruction from the stuffy monks, opting instead to hang out with the guards and commonfolk when she wasn't causing general mischief.
[digression]
Regarding high stats, the 3.5e Player Handbook says "These scores [meaning those listed in the tables provided which show 10-11 for humans] are for an average, young adult creature of the indicated race or kind .... an adventurer—say, a dwarf fighter or a gnoll ranger—probably has better scores, at least in the abilities that matter most to that character, and player characters are above average overall."
The 4e PHB says "A score of 10 or 11 is the normal human average, but player characters are a cut above average in most abilities."
These are both editions where player characters also gain an ability point periodically to simulate experience/training.
Incidentally, I couldn't find a similar statement in a quick scan of my revised 2e PHB (1995).
RE: Dual-classing; the revised 2e PHB says:
"A character can acquire up to four classes, one from each group [ie warriors, priests, wizards, thiefs], as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change."
"After switching to a new class, the character no longer earns experience points in his previous class and he can no longer advance in level in that class. Nor can he switch back to his first class at a later date, hoping to resume his advancement where he left off. Once he leaves a class he has finished his studies in it. Instead he starts over in a new class, at 1st level with 0 experience points, but he does retain his previous Hit Dice and hit points. He gains the abilities, and must by abide by all restrictions, of the new class."
"... if he uses any of his previous class's abilities during an encounter, he earns no experience for that encounter and only half experience for the adventure. The only values that can be carried over from the previous class without restriction are the character's Hit Dice and hit points. The character is penalized for using his old attack or saving throw numbers, weapons or armor that are now prohibited, and any special abilities of the old class that are not also abilities of the new class."
I read the last paragraph to mean that the restrictions are absolute, and that if you screw up you are not only penalized by receiving zero XP for the encounter, you also are docked half of your XP when you go back to following the restrictions properly.
I have to disagree with you on ASoFaI. While there is a lot of clerical magic, and druidic magic, we will be seeing even more arcane soon I'm sure.
Westeros started as a very low magic settling I'm book one. As the dragons grow older, more and more magic is returning. Plus I think mellisandre is more a cleric sorc or cleric mage (enchanter)
@Dragonspear I know they have studies in the arcane magics, but not enough to be able to classify them, maybe the Valyrians had mages/wizards, but no one practices arcane magic, most are tricks or sort of that type, and then everything can fall into the druidic/clerical category. I am sure we could see more arcane magic, but after the
Ending of the last book I think it will have much more ground battles and betrayals than magic.
And most of the magic is dead, because the Children are gone and they cannot be seen nor they are directly mentioned
until Bran meets them
, but their magic is described as druidic.
Also, I forgot to make something about The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man's Fears (the King Killer Chronicle), where magic is almost totally arcane, Kvothe should be a bard by default, unkitted, as he uses lots of spells that can easily be low level, he uses Glitterdust, Burning Hands/Agnazar's Scorcher/Fireball, he creates a device that works as a Physical Mirror, he casts something like Call Lightning, but by linking two arrows, he do not uses magic to cure himself but he knows something about medicine, he uses life-draining spells (Vampiric Touch of Larloch's Minor Drain) and he calls the wind, what would be something like a summoning spell (Elric summons the elements, gods, demigods, demons and devils for his personal use too, but that is because they made pacts with his lineage before), he builds a device that does some sort of Spell Deflection/Spell Turning with offensive damage (like the Cloak of Cheese), maybe some more low level spells I am missing.
I kind of wondered too... her BG1 profile basically said she spent far more time around Winthrop than Gorion, but if she had been getting any serious magical training in Candlekeep would she have left it so readily? I was kind of surprised when I found out she dual-classed to mage in BG2 since she just never struck me as the type in the first game. I suppose she could have snuck around, read books and developed enough of an understanding of magical theory that someone else could have started her off into actual spellcasting pretty easily. Maybe she turned out to be so brilliant at it that after a small nudge she just took off as a magical prodigy or something. *shrug* As for WHO, well, who knows? (my charname is a sorceress so I guess I could pretend it was her even?)
"A character can acquire up to four classes, one from each group [ie warriors, priests, wizards, thiefs], as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change."
Awwww. @Crowseye No Bard-->Thief, then? [I assume Bard is a subset of Thief?] There goes my Riddlemaster-->Assasin hopes.
Bards can't dual class into anything, and no class can dual into a Bard. It's…a calling? Actually I don't have a good reason. Probably why they changed it after 2E.
"A character can acquire up to four classes, one from each group [ie warriors, priests, wizards, thiefs], as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change."
Too bad that isn't implemented in Baldur's Gate. If Elminster can be a fighter/thief/mage, than I should be able to too.
Comments
Oh and fogive me if the above comment sounds offensive in any way, I didn't mean it.
"A den of stinking evil! Cover your nose Boo, we shall leave no crevice untouched!"
I am in no way offended
Mentioning lvl 1 I meant Imoen at the beginning of the series, since there are a few moments when you can raise her intelligence magically (Tome of Clear Thought, Machine of Lum the Mad), but the 17 at the beginning is what she was born with.
But anyway, I disagree that high stats are what you're born with. It's just that the 2nd edition is not very flexible with stats - you just roll and go adventuring in some campaign. As I recall only old age penalties and bonuses are explained. And you can't be an adventurer if you're under a certain starting age. 3d edition is more logical in this way - you gain stats with levels.
And even in real life, we see huge differences between people, simply by virtue of their birth. Yes, you can work to become stronger or faster to an extent, but Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma are a different story.
If I recall correctly, your average dude in 2nd edition D&D was lucky if he got solid 10's in every stat. Adventures are a different breed and on a whole different level.
Heck, I'm pretty sure I can cast infra-vision every now and then!
The captain was your common citizen who, at some point in his life, decided to join the city guard, managed to make his way up the ladder and became a respected member of this particular city's society. He is not like other folks, yes, he may survive when others will fall, he may be the hero who got rid of an infamous criminal, he's able to do things others cannot. But that's it. Maybe someday he'll quit, put on his armor and set off to seek adventures, maybe even he'll be successful, be a part of some minor events, his fame will spread across nearby villages and towns. But ultimately he'll die slain by your everyday drow you eat for dinner.
The word "adventurer" was just an example, I didn't mean that there are only Adventurers and Other People. For me every single character has a level as such, may it be the captain or a waitress in the Friendly Arm, but what you're born with is the main factor(but not the only one) that describes how far will you manage to get in your life.
Xzar. The gibbering necromancer.
Obviously.
______________________________________________________________________________
Necromancy is, notably, also the school of healing and tending to the soul.
Xzar (once a relatively powerful mage) detected young Imoen from afar and investigated the dark taint she spread across the local astral space.
Communing via dream spells they developed a rapport and Xzar came to view her as less an object of study and more a companion - even a would-be ward.
Being a bright lass the two had many long discussions about magery (this all being via dream those discussions were locked in her subconcious).
______________________________________________________________________________
For obvious reasons this relationship did not bare mageling fruit initially. Xzar wished to share secrets of the cosmos with her waking mind, but he feared how the potentially dangerous knowledge of necromancy might interact with her dark heritage.
He resolved to cure her. To free her from the oppression of blood.
The kindly and protective Xzar sought to sooth the young girl's soul by trying to extract and eliminate the Bhaal taint within her.
He half-succeeded.
Thanks to Xzar young Imoen preserved her innocence -- her taint uniquely subdued among the bhaal-spawn. But Xzar himself paid a heavy price for interaction with the dead god's legacy -- madness and mental and moral decay.
______________________________________________________________________________
By the time the two meet at the beginning of BG1 neither remembers the other.
Imoen because their long relationship is but a series of forgotten dreams.
Xzar because he is a raving and depraved shade of his former self.
But some subconcious part of Imoen recognizes Xzar and trusts him -- Really, why else would you bring him and his companion (that threatens to murder you regularly) along after meeting them in suspicious circumstances when you know killers are hunting you?
______________________________________________________________________________
Sometime later; when Imoen has had a chance to grow and access to many dead mages' spellbooks.
The long discussions with Xzar in her childhood dreams scratch at the surface of her consciousness -- and taking those books she carries on with the lessons Xzar started so long ago.
She sought neither power nor universal understanding in those books. Secretly, unknowingly she sought a means to cure the madness of a man she never truly met, but whose loss has always left her with a an aching sorrow she could not heal. The cruel, melancholic irony of her having spent so much time beside the man she desired to save without recognizing him is on of the main themes of Baldur's Gate. (A much more poignant parallel to the cordial interactions of the party with Gorion's killer and the general inaccessibility of one's true self represented by the revelation charname's and later Imoen's secret taint.) The only consolation is that she did beat her heritage and - unlike charname - even the removal of her soul (in BG2) wasn't enough to rekindle her dark spirit. All thanks to her mentor and protector. The good wizard necromancer: Xzar.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Really. This is all virtually spelled out in BG1. Maybe one needs to read between the lines a little. I'm surprised you'd even ask the question though.
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32600000/Ice-King-and-Marceline-Before-and-After-ice-king-and-marceline-club-32665095-400-225.jpg
(Edit: And yeah, Adventure Time totally ripped of Baldur's Gate there. amirite?!)
Dragon Riders are like the elves, so nothing especial to mention here, I think Dragon Riders are like Dragon Disciples also :P, but without the fire immunity
Then, in the books Elric of Melibone, magic is also something in the middle of sorcerer/mage, since some magical powers can be like a legacy (the lineage of the Emperors of Melibone is an example) and they ae innate-like, but then magic is something that *must* be studied to understand and use, since it consumes energies drastically, in others of Michael Moorcock's books like Corum's (sorry but I only read the first here, cannot find the others), magic comes from divine sources more than mortal sources, but Vadagh are a magical race, they have some superhuman abilities, like insta-plane-walking, looking to the planes in the conjunt they are and they have infravision, and other things loke super hearing frequency and other ultr-super-human sensory abilities. When Corum gets the "new" hand with 6 fingers that was from one of the Lost (Fighting) Gods, and he also gets an eye that makes him able to look in other planes and other conjunts of planes. Moorcock created some places/devices capables of bypassing planes, mainly they are the ship Elric gets in in The Sailor of the Seas of Fate with Corum (and Erkose!) and then the Evanescent Tower, another place he gets woth Corum (and Erkose!), that travels randomly around the planes, while the ship has a direction, but it is decided by Fate and it appears very strangely.
In the Song of Fire and Ice books (aka Gama of Thrones, I didn't watch the series but I've read the books) most of the magic is clerical, almost no ine stides arcane magic as it does not even exist.
I'd justify her escaping notice/training at Candlekeep on the grounds that she had some Arya Stark in her and couldn't take formal instruction from the stuffy monks, opting instead to hang out with the guards and commonfolk when she wasn't causing general mischief.
[digression]
Regarding high stats, the 3.5e Player Handbook says "These scores [meaning those listed in the tables provided which show 10-11 for humans] are for an average, young adult creature of the indicated race or kind .... an adventurer—say, a dwarf fighter or a gnoll ranger—probably has better scores, at least in the abilities that matter most to that character, and player characters are above average overall."
The 4e PHB says "A score of 10 or 11 is the normal human average, but player characters are a cut above average in most abilities."
These are both editions where player characters also gain an ability point periodically to simulate experience/training.
Incidentally, I couldn't find a similar statement in a quick scan of my revised 2e PHB (1995).
RE: Dual-classing; the revised 2e PHB says:
"A character can acquire up to four classes, one from each group [ie warriors, priests, wizards, thiefs], as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change."
"After switching to a new class, the character no longer earns experience points in his previous class and he can no longer advance in level in that class. Nor can he switch back to his first class at a later date, hoping to resume his advancement where he left off. Once he leaves a class he has finished his studies in it. Instead he starts over in a new class, at 1st level with 0 experience points, but he does retain his previous Hit Dice and hit points. He gains the abilities, and must by abide by all restrictions, of the new class."
"... if he uses any of his previous class's abilities during an encounter, he earns no experience for that encounter and only half experience for the adventure. The only values that can be carried over from the previous class without restriction are the character's Hit Dice and hit points. The character is penalized for using his old attack or saving throw numbers, weapons or armor that are now prohibited, and any special abilities of the old class that are not also abilities of the new class."
I read the last paragraph to mean that the restrictions are absolute, and that if you screw up you are not only penalized by receiving zero XP for the encounter, you also are docked half of your XP when you go back to following the restrictions properly.
[/digression]
I have to disagree with you on ASoFaI. While there is a lot of clerical magic, and druidic magic, we will be seeing even more arcane soon I'm sure.
Westeros started as a very low magic settling I'm book one. As the dragons grow older, more and more magic is returning. Plus I think mellisandre is more a cleric sorc or cleric mage (enchanter)
I am sure we could see more arcane magic, but after the
Ending of the last book I think it will have much more ground battles and betrayals than magic.
And most of the magic is dead, because the Children are gone and they cannot be seen nor they are directly mentioned
Also, I forgot to make something about The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man's Fears (the King Killer Chronicle), where magic is almost totally arcane, Kvothe should be a bard by default, unkitted, as he uses lots of spells that can easily be low level, he uses Glitterdust, Burning Hands/Agnazar's Scorcher/Fireball, he creates a device that works as a Physical Mirror, he casts something like Call Lightning, but by linking two arrows, he do not uses magic to cure himself but he knows something about medicine, he uses life-draining spells (Vampiric Touch of Larloch's Minor Drain) and he calls the wind, what would be something like a summoning spell (Elric summons the elements, gods, demigods, demons and devils for his personal use too, but that is because they made pacts with his lineage before), he builds a device that does some sort of Spell Deflection/Spell Turning with offensive damage (like the Cloak of Cheese), maybe some more low level spells I am missing.
I was kind of surprised when I found out she dual-classed to mage in BG2 since she just never struck me as the type in the first game. I suppose she could have snuck around, read books and developed enough of an understanding of magical theory that someone else could have started her off into actual spellcasting pretty easily. Maybe she turned out to be so brilliant at it that after a small nudge she just took off as a magical prodigy or something. *shrug*
As for WHO, well, who knows?
@Crowseye
No Bard-->Thief, then? [I assume Bard is a subset of Thief?]
There goes my Riddlemaster-->Assasin hopes.
Riddlemasters are so cool!
@jackjack
Good to know!
Thanks