Unfinished Business spoilers! Warning! Buzz! Don't read if you don't want to!
In Unfinished Business, Suna hangs around in the bar. To find Valygar, you have to find his manservant in his estate on the docks, THEN talk to Suna, who will direct you to his ranger cabin- Valygar won't be there otherwise. If you've talked to her like this, she does not ambush you. Later, she will show up and warn Valygar to stay away from you (you meaning the Bhaalspawn, if this isn't obvious). Valygar just sort of goes 'huh, wtf?' and stays with you, obviously. Later at the Spellhold, you meet with her again. She explains that like Yoshimo, she has been geased by Irenicus: unlike Yoshimo, though, she cannot bring herself to attack CHARNAME because she still loves Valygar. By explaining this, the geas kills her, and Valygar vows revenge on Irenicus similar to how Jaheria and Minsc have.
If you don't have Valygar, I assume she attacks normally. I'm unsure if the combination of SCS and Unfinished Business make her ambush happen but keeps her alive anyway for the confrontation in Spellhold- it might, as mod interactions can get confusing.
So far I have a sort of love/hate relation with SCS, mostly because of the prebuffing option. Most encounters aren't exactly that much different but of course the enemies are far smarter. Enemy mages with prebuff can range from annoying to cheeselords. Arrows of Dispelling play a big role here, as every mage and their mother comes prebuffed with Fireshield. Note that these arrows are unenchanted and won't work against enemies that have normal weapon immunity or mantles, but it's still nice for your normal mage trash mob. High level spellcasters are pure lords of cheese, especially because you start meeting them at a level you pretty have much no way at all of countering their prebuffs like Spell Trap. I'm looking at Prison Warden, Tolgerias, Lavok. It's fine to delay liches to the later stages of the game, you don't need to kill them besides the Nether Scrolls one for quests. Are you really going to delay a Stronghold quest like Planar Sphere until Chapter 6 however? Anyways, you can do those battles early by basically tanking forever with Korgan and waiting while their protections expire. Or just save those 2 prot from magic scrolls Ribald sells for Tolgerias and Lavok, use it on them instead of one of your characters then smite away. Prison Warden doesn't cast Spell Trap so it's a lot easier to dispel him at low level, but boy is your tank going to need someone spamming Rod of Ressurection for instant Heals on him because Warden hits like a truck, comes with Improved Haste, and casts Black Blade of Disaster. I also didn't bother moving Vhailor's Helmet and Robe of Vecna until ToB, if some enemies are going to be op from the beginning why shouldn't you be allowed some power too? I don't bother with Balduran's Shield though, a decently geared Korgan with Berserk can solo Beholders and only has to worry about Elder Orbs that can cast Greater Malison. ...anyways, as far as party goes, Keldorn with nerfed 1.5x level Dispel is still amazing, 1x level and his dispel becomes useless because every strong mage you meet is waaaaaay higher level than you. Besides that, Korgan or a Berseker with shorty saves is a godsend for shrugging mage spells/dealing with Beholders. Also I'd really take at least 2 mages, makes Dragons a breeze and also for dispeling enemy mage's protections and CC for normal battles. Personally I really like 3 mages, that way you can go with Greater Malison +2x Chaos right at the first round, and this combo is enough to destroy most human encounters in Athkatla and other areas. Also, 3x Lower Resistance + 3x Minor Sequencers with 2x Magic Missiles each is amazing for early Dragon killing.
I stole all 80 arrows of dispelling from Waukeen's and still have a few left at this point but they are a godsend against a few things like Irenicus in Spellhold... Especially without Keldorn.
Usually you'll be at a level high enough to cast spells that can destroy Spell Trap, the worst buff by far that high level mages cast during the fight with Deirex. But yeah Perth the Adept can cause some trouble too but is avoidable, same for the Spellhold lich.
@RedWizard from what you said I can understand your love/hate
But you know.. the planar sphere, the home of a 500 year old lich who traveled other freakin planes the whole time, where you fight tanar'ri and such, should IMO be considered a high-level party quest. It just doesn't seem right that a 7-8 lvl party goes there, slays a few demons and a lich, and then gets their asses kicked by some jerks in the Guarded Compound.
I know, it makes sense that liches and high level spellcasters should be though and require a party of high level characters. The problem is the developers designed that quest as one to be dealt with early, because well... it's a stronghold quest. If you notice, it's been a tradition ever since BG1 to have your party of adventurers face enemies that are way higher leveled, but sometimes with nerfed abilities. Silke for example is a freaking level 10 Bard and you fight her at level 1, but she does not have abilities that a 10th level Bard would in normal BG1. Same with Tolgerias and Lavok, they didn't come prebuffed to the hells and back etc
My spoiler is awesome. But yes, don't read it if you're planning on playing Unfinished Business with Valygar around. Unless you get confused by not being able to find Valygar, which happened to me the first time I played.
I go around with generally three arcanists of some kind in BG2 SCS, too (I kept typing anarchists there for a while... sorry, Haer'Dalis, you can't come. Wrong faction!). One of them is often Aerie, who takes care of cleric spells, too. Then either Jan or Imoen to take care of traps and locks as well. My last caster spot can range from Haer'Dalis to Edwin in power; really depends. Then I have at least one character that can take to melee, and then my PC, who doubles whatever role I want doubled (lately, I've been addicted to cleric/rangers, but I swear if I have to do the Lathander stronghold again I might kill someone). Lots of battles are solved by buffing up that one meleer an insane amount and then sending them in to the fray while everyone else waits hiding behind a pillar. Probably not the best strategy, but it works.
I do agree that sometimes you end up fighting enemies that are ridiculously tough for the time you face them... Silke in BG1 is a notable and mentioned one. I don't blame SCS for that; I blame Bioware and then do my best against these crazy threats anyway. If it means delaying the planar sphere till chapter six, then I delay it. I often need to, with the SCS wizards + atweaks fiends combination.
@RedWizard Yeah I noticed that lowlevel-epicwin tendency, I meant I find it understandable and logical that SCS drastically increased the planar sphere's difficulty. But I get your point, the original devs design and, let's face it, linearity of the story does conflict with how it all should work with original PnP rules.
@RedWizard from what you said I can understand your love/hate
But you know.. the planar sphere, the home of a 500 year old lich who traveled other freakin planes the whole time, where you fight tanar'ri and such, should IMO be considered a high-level party quest. It just doesn't seem right that a 7-8 lvl party goes there, slays a few demons and a lich, and then gets their asses kicked by some jerks in the Guarded Compound.
Might only be with SCS but theres a lich guarding one of the components you need to get out of the spellhold dungeon, i guess it might be possible to get it without killing the lich but you'd have a lich blasting you for a while without fighting back then...
Outside Dace's library? I always met Bone Golem and some mummies there
Yeah but I blasted it with 2x Sunray before protections using haste and invis to get close.
I have a feeling I'm the noob who doesn't know all these evil, sneaky tactics. I always fought epic battles and reloaded milion times, but since I joined this forum I found people have so many creative ways to make minced meat out of any enemy
Are you really going to delay a Stronghold quest like Planar Sphere until Chapter 6 however?
Yes I do. Even when I play mage (very often). I don´t like "strongholds", my charname don´t want to own some stupid spheres or castles. My charnames are hobos and vagrants by their soul.
I need some advice from you, guys my party consist: Berserker PC Jaheira Kivan (mod) Nalia -> later Imoen Valygar (SK edited class for Wizard Slayer) Anomen
would I be ok with only one arcane spellcaster? Or should I swap Anomen for eg. Jan or keep Nalia? What must-have divine spells I miss if I would kick Anomen from party for another mage? Jaheira has some usefull druidic spells - would it be enough to compensate for priest-only spells? I play with SCS + Kit Revisions + Item Revisions + Spell Revisions
My point of view is that only one arcane magic user is not enough for SCS. You need at least two of them, in order to take down mage protections quickly.
With you set-up (if you want Kivan in BG2 so much) I would change Anomen for Aerie - this way you'll still get cleric spells but also gain mage spells, especially anti-magical ones: Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Breach, Khelben's Warding Whip and so on.
Also, an interesting decision of yours to make Valygar a Wizard Slayer. Suits his personality, I think : )
*contains spoilers* But I assume most people playing with SCS will have played through the game at least once.
On most occasions I didn't find SCS too hard on my playthrough I didn't get very far into ToB though. A noticeable exception was the cowled wizard at then end of the planar sphere quest. There was also a vampire mob that was relatively difficult in the firkaark dungeon, I was quite high level though. But at lower levels that fight would have been pretty insane.
On my install I didn't move the robes of vencar to ToB and didn't remove HLAs from the spellbook so my sorcerer nuked very very hard. Yes, it is a little cheesy and the sorcerer is probably still the most powerful class (project image still works in most circumstances).
I would recommend not to install pre buffed medium duration spells. Despite the fact that it occasionally produces odd results (why does that lich you just freed have fireshield active all the time and why does their pre buffed chant effect your party?) those casters are tough enough without it. I did install that on my playthrough though.
Most of the more powerful mobs will remove magic anyway so buffing is not that huge, especially for multiclassed casters. The mayor obstacles usually don't use brute force, so I'd focus on two weapon fighting+strength+imrpoved haste (ideally off a robes of venca mage so you can renew the buff instantly) for melee characters. The inquisitor's true sight and dispel magic (if you leave it at 1.5 that is) is very useful because it is cast instantly. Two mages is certainly helpful but not strictly necessary imho. You will require more resting with just one mage though because you will want to use time stop and celerity fairly often to get the required actions. Abilities that prevent your characters from being knocked out are also huge (items, abilities like berserk).
Hi fellow people with to much time on their hands, I have played since back in the 5 CD era, bring it out for a couple of months every year. Yesterday I installed SCS for the first time ever. I think the action bar on the left side changed slightly, the bears are faster and I have more script options for my npc's. But Yeslick can not use axes (I read somewhere that he was supposed to). How do I know if I have a complete installment?? Does it matter??
Comments
If you don't have Valygar, I assume she attacks normally. I'm unsure if the combination of SCS and Unfinished Business make her ambush happen but keeps her alive anyway for the confrontation in Spellhold- it might, as mod interactions can get confusing.
Most encounters aren't exactly that much different but of course the enemies are far smarter. Enemy mages with prebuff can range from annoying to cheeselords. Arrows of Dispelling play a big role here, as every mage and their mother comes prebuffed with Fireshield. Note that these arrows are unenchanted and won't work against enemies that have normal weapon immunity or mantles, but it's still nice for your normal mage trash mob.
High level spellcasters are pure lords of cheese, especially because you start meeting them at a level you pretty have much no way at all of countering their prebuffs like Spell Trap. I'm looking at Prison Warden, Tolgerias, Lavok. It's fine to delay liches to the later stages of the game, you don't need to kill them besides the Nether Scrolls one for quests. Are you really going to delay a Stronghold quest like Planar Sphere until Chapter 6 however?
Anyways, you can do those battles early by basically tanking forever with Korgan and waiting while their protections expire. Or just save those 2 prot from magic scrolls Ribald sells for Tolgerias and Lavok, use it on them instead of one of your characters then smite away. Prison Warden doesn't cast Spell Trap so it's a lot easier to dispel him at low level, but boy is your tank going to need someone spamming Rod of Ressurection for instant Heals on him because Warden hits like a truck, comes with Improved Haste, and casts Black Blade of Disaster.
I also didn't bother moving Vhailor's Helmet and Robe of Vecna until ToB, if some enemies are going to be op from the beginning why shouldn't you be allowed some power too? I don't bother with Balduran's Shield though, a decently geared Korgan with Berserk can solo Beholders and only has to worry about Elder Orbs that can cast Greater Malison.
...anyways, as far as party goes, Keldorn with nerfed 1.5x level Dispel is still amazing, 1x level and his dispel becomes useless because every strong mage you meet is waaaaaay higher level than you. Besides that, Korgan or a Berseker with shorty saves is a godsend for shrugging mage spells/dealing with Beholders. Also I'd really take at least 2 mages, makes Dragons a breeze and also for dispeling enemy mage's protections and CC for normal battles. Personally I really like 3 mages, that way you can go with Greater Malison +2x Chaos right at the first round, and this combo is enough to destroy most human encounters in Athkatla and other areas. Also, 3x Lower Resistance + 3x Minor Sequencers with 2x Magic Missiles each is amazing for early Dragon killing.
Is there any other spoiler tab here? I meant Twani's spoiler :O
Don't forget the lich in Spellhold...
Also Deirex in the Underdark has all HLAs
I stole all 80 arrows of dispelling from Waukeen's and still have a few left at this point but they are a godsend against a few things like Irenicus in Spellhold... Especially without Keldorn.
@Antagonist
I thought there was more than one spoiler
@RedWizard from what you said I can understand your love/hate
But you know.. the planar sphere, the home of a 500 year old lich who traveled other freakin planes the whole time, where you fight tanar'ri and such, should IMO be considered a high-level party quest. It just doesn't seem right that a 7-8 lvl party goes there, slays a few demons and a lich, and then gets their asses kicked by some jerks in the Guarded Compound.
If you notice, it's been a tradition ever since BG1 to have your party of adventurers face enemies that are way higher leveled, but sometimes with nerfed abilities. Silke for example is a freaking level 10 Bard and you fight her at level 1, but she does not have abilities that a 10th level Bard would in normal BG1.
Same with Tolgerias and Lavok, they didn't come prebuffed to the hells and back etc
I go around with generally three arcanists of some kind in BG2 SCS, too (I kept typing anarchists there for a while... sorry, Haer'Dalis, you can't come. Wrong faction!). One of them is often Aerie, who takes care of cleric spells, too. Then either Jan or Imoen to take care of traps and locks as well. My last caster spot can range from Haer'Dalis to Edwin in power; really depends. Then I have at least one character that can take to melee, and then my PC, who doubles whatever role I want doubled (lately, I've been addicted to cleric/rangers, but I swear if I have to do the Lathander stronghold again I might kill someone). Lots of battles are solved by buffing up that one meleer an insane amount and then sending them in to the fray while everyone else waits hiding behind a pillar. Probably not the best strategy, but it works.
I do agree that sometimes you end up fighting enemies that are ridiculously tough for the time you face them... Silke in BG1 is a notable and mentioned one. I don't blame SCS for that; I blame Bioware and then do my best against these crazy threats anyway. If it means delaying the planar sphere till chapter six, then I delay it. I often need to, with the SCS wizards + atweaks fiends combination.
Unseeing Eye has one too if you do it slightly late.
my party consist:
Berserker PC
Jaheira
Kivan (mod)
Nalia -> later Imoen
Valygar (SK edited class for Wizard Slayer)
Anomen
would I be ok with only one arcane spellcaster? Or should I swap Anomen for eg. Jan or keep Nalia?
What must-have divine spells I miss if I would kick Anomen from party for another mage? Jaheira has some usefull druidic spells - would it be enough to compensate for priest-only spells?
I play with SCS + Kit Revisions + Item Revisions + Spell Revisions
So, I see nobody has answerd your question yet.
My point of view is that only one arcane magic user is not enough for SCS. You need at least two of them, in order to take down mage protections quickly.
With you set-up (if you want Kivan in BG2 so much) I would change Anomen for Aerie - this way you'll still get cleric spells but also gain mage spells, especially anti-magical ones: Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Breach, Khelben's Warding Whip and so on.
Also, an interesting decision of yours to make Valygar a Wizard Slayer. Suits his personality, I think : )
But I assume most people playing with SCS will have played through the game at least once.
On most occasions I didn't find SCS too hard on my playthrough I didn't get very far into ToB though. A noticeable exception was the cowled wizard at then end of the planar sphere quest. There was also a vampire mob that was relatively difficult in the firkaark dungeon, I was quite high level though. But at lower levels that fight would have been pretty insane.
On my install I didn't move the robes of vencar to ToB and didn't remove HLAs from the spellbook so my sorcerer nuked very very hard. Yes, it is a little cheesy and the sorcerer is probably still the most powerful class (project image still works in most circumstances).
I would recommend not to install pre buffed medium duration spells. Despite the fact that it occasionally produces odd results (why does that lich you just freed have fireshield active all the time and why does their pre buffed chant effect your party?) those casters are tough enough without it. I did install that on my playthrough though.
Most of the more powerful mobs will remove magic anyway so buffing is not that huge, especially for multiclassed casters. The mayor obstacles usually don't use brute force, so I'd focus on two weapon fighting+strength+imrpoved haste (ideally off a robes of venca mage so you can renew the buff instantly) for melee characters. The inquisitor's true sight and dispel magic (if you leave it at 1.5 that is) is very useful because it is cast instantly. Two mages is certainly helpful but not strictly necessary imho. You will require more resting with just one mage though because you will want to use time stop and celerity fairly often to get the required actions. Abilities that prevent your characters from being knocked out are also huge (items, abilities like berserk).
But Yeslick can not use axes (I read somewhere that he was supposed to).
How do I know if I have a complete installment??
Does it matter??
It is all so vain...