As others have mentioned: Sorcerer requires a LOT of planning ahead, which is difficult if you don't know the game. Though this is greatly mitigated if you're playing without tactics mods.
My recommendation: Do play with sorcerer if it appeals to you, but give yourself a rule such as "every level I can exchange one known spell for another" or "...one known spell per level for another" or the like - be generous: you're new and the game, frankly, is quite opaque. You can use EEKeeper to modify your character and switch out known spells easily.
The alternative is risking putting a lot of time into the game and then not really enjoying your build.
General Sorc. Advice: (1) Think of each spell level independently. Make sure you always have something you can do with spells at that level. (e.g. if you only take protection spells for level 6 spells (easy to do) you may end up with a lot of unused spells) Try to have at least 2 general use (80% of encounters) spells with different purposes per spell level (e.g. attack-and-defend or damage-and-buff or buff-and-debuff)
(2) Think of all levels together. After your 2 spells that work for most encounters add spells that you need a lot but do something specific, but don't replicate across spell levels. (e.g. you probably want either improved invisibility OR shadow door, but not both; you probably want lower resistance OR pierce magic, but not both)
(3) Remember you can use scrolls (or teammates). You don't have to do everything. You don't need to learn Vocalize for instance - just use a scroll. Summon Nishruu is an awesome spell, but you can get by with just scrolls. So don't sweat a few holes too much!
@syllog I would actually say you should have pierce shielda no lower resistance, because you can cast pierce shield to put a hundred magic resistance to a little over 50, and the pretty much instantly cast to lower resistances to remove it entirely.
There are 3 Spells: Lower Resistance, Pierce Magic, & Pierce Shield
lvl 5 - Lower Resistance = Decrease MR by 11-30% (based on level) lvl 6 - Pierce Magic = Decrease MR by 1-20% + Secret Word (removes spell prot. ≤ lvl 8) lvl 8 - Pierce Shield = Lower Resistance + Ruby Ray of Reversal (removes spell prot., any level)
If your only goal is lowering resistance then "Lower Resistance" is the best spell. It lowers MR more than Pierce Magic and is a *much* lower level than Pierce Shield (which also means you can put it in a spell trigger and cast it multiple times instantly).
The advantage of Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield is solely that they also remove spell protections (like Spell Turning or Spell Trap) -- which increases the situations the spells can be used in and allows you to do multiple actions in one turn in the few cases that it's necessary.
[Theoretical advantage would be for use against a creature that is immune to spells below lvl 6. I do not believe there are any in vanilla BG/BG2 that also have MR, however. The Drow lich perhaps?]
In any case: my point was simply that having multiple spells that lower resistance would be a waste for a sorcerer as they are 99% redundant and sorcerers can know only a few spells.
Would these be considered good choices so far? I'm going to try and achieve a balance of offence, defence and buff/de-buff, the idea that I can handle myself with/without my party.
Thanks and happy new year to everyone :-)
Totally fine. (Honestly, it's hard to mess up too bad if you're playing vanilla, especially with a party.) But if you're looking for advice on how to analyze though here are critiques you should consider
Sleep - great early on, but because it only effects creatures with x HD it stops being useful ~1/2-way through BG. After that it is essentially an unused spell. Also: there is a wand of sleep. So I'd just get that. [Note: In general if there's a wand of something (e.g. cloudkill or scorcher) it's not worth learning the spell.]
ProtEvil - A good spell. If you're in a party though your cleric will cast a party-wide version of this spell making it redundant. Still: it's a useful spell and nice from an RP perspective if you take demon summonings later.
Magic Missile - GREAT spell. Scales well. If you're playing with SCS or another tactics mod though: know that enemy mages will use Shield which will negate it. A second quick attack spell is good for spell disruption.
Shield - GREAT spell. In vanilla this becomes redundant in BG2, but even then I think it's worth it to survive BG. With tactics the magic missile immunity never hurts.
Blur & MI - both are good spells (mirror image is GREAT). Unless you do a lot of pre-buffing (e.g. if you play SCS) then they are a bit redundant. You also have no offense at that level (e.g. acid arrow, web, glitterdust, etc.)
Skull trap - GREAT. Scales well throughout the game.
The problem with the sorceror is that it becomes so powerful that it makes the game too easy. Once you get level 9 spells most fight are over even before being started (project image, time stop, improved alacrity, horrid witling x 4-5)
Also, I disagree with the fact that mages have more strategic flexibility. As a matter of fact, there is not that many interesting spells in the game and a sorceror can pick most of them already. For the rare occasion they need something really specific they can just use a scroll.
For spell selection, i avoid save or else spells as they tend to be useless in the late game. I also avoid anything that can be duplicated through items (wands, ...)
Here is the spells not to miss in each level :
Level 1: Magic missile shield : great in early BG1, especially for the protection from MM. Marginally useful after
My picks (solo no reload) : MM/Shield/Spook/Chromtic orb/Identify
Level 2: Mirror image Invisibility : only in solo. Resist fear : only in solo. Web : extremely OP spell in BG1 and early BG2. Toss 2 of them in 1 area and nobody can move.
My picks : mirror image, web, resist fear, invisibility, knock
Level 3: Melf minuscule meteor : extremely OP in BG1 and early BG2. the THACO bonus combined with high dex makes it easy to hit things. The damage is very high for the early game. In BG2 it's great since you can kill very early monsters otherwise immune to low-enchanted weapons. Haste : very good for summons or group buffing Skull trap : not very useful in BG1 (wands of fire are better) but the damage scaling to 20D6 and the ability to lay traps is great in BG2
My picks : MMM, Haste, skull trap, remove magic, fire arrow
Level 4: Stoneskin Spiderspawn : very strong in BG and early BG2. The combo with web is absurdly powerful on lower levels Improved invisibility : being untargetable by spells is good
My picks : Stoneskin, spiderspawn, improved invis, minor sequencer, greater malison
Level 5: Animate dead : only if solo (otherwise clerics do it at level 3). Very strong summon from level 15. Spell immunity : VERY powerful spell. Lot of OP (cheesy even) combos available. Lower resistance Breach : only in group
Level 6: Protection from magical weapon : 4 rounds of complete immunity is just great True sight : only if solo (let that to cleric otherwise) contigency : some very nice combos are possible for difficult fights
My picks : PFMW, true sight, death spell, contingency, mislead
Level 7: Project image : extremely OP, even if you refrain from using the cheesiest tactics Mordenkainen's sword : very strong summon VS fighters.
My picks : Project image, Mordenkainen, Spell sequencer, Ruby ray of reversal, limited wish (not really useful but nothing really is IMO)
Level 8: Horrid wilting : huge area damage, party friendly
My picks : horrid witling, protection from energy, pierce shield, spell trigger, power word blind
Level 9: Time stop : extremely OP with improve alacrity. Wish : with 18 WIS Chain contigency : extremely OP.
My picks : time stop, wish, chain contigency, shapechange.
The problem with the sorceror is that it becomes so powerful that it makes the game too easy. Once you get level 9 spells most fight are over even before being started (project image, time stop, improved alacrity, horrid witling x 4-5)
Also, I disagree with the fact that mages have more strategic flexibility. As a matter of fact, there is not that many interesting spells in the game and a sorceror can pick most of them already. For the rare occasion they need something really specific they can just use a scroll.
For spell selection, i avoid save or else spells as they tend to be useless in the late game. I also avoid anything that can be duplicated through items (wands, ...)
Here is the spells not to miss in each level :
Level 1: Magic missile shield : great in early BG1, especially for the protection from MM. Marginally useful after
My picks (solo no reload) : MM/Shield/Spook/Chromtic orb/Identify
Level 2: Mirror image Invisibility : only in solo. Resist fear : only in solo. Web : extremely OP spell in BG1 and early BG2. Toss 2 of them in 1 area and nobody can move.
My picks : mirror image, web, resist fear, invisibility, knock
Level 3: Melf minuscule meteor : extremely OP in BG1 and early BG2. the THACO bonus combined with high dex makes it easy to hit things. The damage is very high for the early game. In BG2 it's great since you can kill very early monsters otherwise immune to low-enchanted weapons. Haste : very good for summons or group buffing Skull trap : not very useful in BG1 (wands of fire are better) but the damage scaling to 20D6 and the ability to lay traps is great in BG2
My picks : MMM, Haste, skull trap, remove magic, fire arrow
Level 4: Stoneskin Spiderspawn : very strong in BG and early BG2. The combo with web is absurdly powerful on lower levels Improved invisibility : being untargetable by spells is good
My picks : Stoneskin, spiderspawn, improved invis, minor sequencer, greater malison
Level 5: Animate dead : only if solo (otherwise clerics do it at level 3). Very strong summon from level 15. Spell immunity : VERY powerful spell. Lot of OP (cheesy even) combos available. Lower resistance Breach : only in group
Level 6: Protection from magical weapon : 4 rounds of complete immunity is just great True sight : only if solo (let that to cleric otherwise) contigency : some very nice combos are possible for difficult fights
My picks : PFMW, true sight, death spell, contingency, mislead
Level 7: Project image : extremely OP, even if you refrain from using the cheesiest tactics Mordenkainen's sword : very strong summon VS fighters.
My picks : Project image, Mordenkainen, Spell sequencer, Ruby ray of reversal, limited wish (not really useful but nothing really is IMO)
Level 8: Horrid wilting : huge area damage, party friendly
My picks : horrid witling, protection from energy, pierce shield, spell trigger, power word blind
Level 9: Time stop : extremely OP with improve alacrity. Wish : with 18 WIS Chain contigency : extremely OP.
My picks : time stop, wish, chain contigency, shapechange.
Isn't it a mistake to not take ANY spells that remove enemy mage protections? Breach, Secret Word, Pierce Magic/Shield are vital.
@meagloth that was the most offensive post I've seen in a week.
That was the nicest post I've seen in a while. He allowed us to have any opinion at all, which is quite rare.
Even russian communist allows you to have your own opinon. And no one can judge what I think as "no that is wrong!" Because I could do the same.
BTW: Bigby's Clenched Fist is much more useful, and using 4 spells instead of one has a nice point too, even in the EE, removing Spell Shield, another (bad) fixed spell, besides Limited Wish, many things regarding Contingencies and Greater Restoration, the best spell ever, until fixed because it was too over powered.
Guys, guys, let's not get the thread closed, ok? It's just a little joke I occasionally use to resolve petty arguments. I was not at all expecting that it would be taken so seriously, my bad. Another causality of the lack of tone and facial expressions on the internet. There's no reason to argue, I had simply tried to end the argument in a humorous way. Sorry
@pawnslayer : you are completely right. Protection removal spell cannot hurt. If you look at my picks for each level you will see that i take ruby ray of reversal at level 7 and pierce shield at level 8. Breach is good also but i don't feel it's really necessary if you play solo (which i do all the time)
hello!I got question about Wish spell, does it allow me to change my current spells on my sorcerer? since i typod and i took accidently 2 wrong spells, (shadow of door, and know aligment! or that means my char is ruined now?best regards!
to my knowledge, wish cannot change that. However, shadowkeeper should be able to do that. Anyway you character is still viable (although flawed). At high level you will almost never use level 2 and 5 spells
Spiderspawn is very useful in BG1 and a very poor spell in BG2 where a mediocre enemy can cast a death spell and kill all your spiders... The problem comes when you import your character to BG2. You must choose between play BG1 without Spiderspawn or waste a slot in BG2. If I'm going to start a new game with a new sorcerer in BG2 I would not take this spell.
True, but Death Spell splats all summons anyway... So why not get them to waste it on a spider rather than a MordiSword? Also, I really like minor sequencer with 2 webs... And creepy-crawlers can waltz through that and poison enemy spellslingers.
I think the most important thing with sorcerers is to avoid duplication... So avoid taking a level 7 spell which is a slightly more powerful version of a level 6 spell... Nishru/Hakeashar, Fiend/Gate... There are some exceptions, Haste & Improved Haste as an obvious one. Also, don't take spells because they seem cool. Have a specific role for each selection. I like to have the ability to deal every type of elemental damage.. So I take Acid Arrows, Minute Meteors, Cone of Cold & Chain Lightning.
My list (feel free to tear it to shreds!) has some picks which lose utility over time, but to get to ToB you first have to flatten a few kobolds, so why gimp yourself there?
Comments
Sorcerer requires a LOT of planning ahead, which is difficult if you don't know the game. Though this is greatly mitigated if you're playing without tactics mods.
My recommendation:
Do play with sorcerer if it appeals to you, but give yourself a rule such as "every level I can exchange one known spell for another" or "...one known spell per level for another" or the like - be generous: you're new and the game, frankly, is quite opaque.
You can use EEKeeper to modify your character and switch out known spells easily.
The alternative is risking putting a lot of time into the game and then not really enjoying your build.
General Sorc. Advice:
(1) Think of each spell level independently. Make sure you always have something you can do with spells at that level. (e.g. if you only take protection spells for level 6 spells (easy to do) you may end up with a lot of unused spells) Try to have at least 2 general use (80% of encounters) spells with different purposes per spell level (e.g. attack-and-defend or damage-and-buff or buff-and-debuff)
(2) Think of all levels together. After your 2 spells that work for most encounters add spells that you need a lot but do something specific, but don't replicate across spell levels. (e.g. you probably want either improved invisibility OR shadow door, but not both; you probably want lower resistance OR pierce magic, but not both)
(3) Remember you can use scrolls (or teammates). You don't have to do everything. You don't need to learn Vocalize for instance - just use a scroll. Summon Nishruu is an awesome spell, but you can get by with just scrolls. So don't sweat a few holes too much!
I have no idea what you mean, sorry.
There are 3 Spells:
Lower Resistance, Pierce Magic, & Pierce Shield
lvl 5 - Lower Resistance = Decrease MR by 11-30% (based on level)
lvl 6 - Pierce Magic = Decrease MR by 1-20% + Secret Word (removes spell prot. ≤ lvl 8)
lvl 8 - Pierce Shield = Lower Resistance + Ruby Ray of Reversal (removes spell prot., any level)
If your only goal is lowering resistance then "Lower Resistance" is the best spell. It lowers MR more than Pierce Magic and is a *much* lower level than Pierce Shield (which also means you can put it in a spell trigger and cast it multiple times instantly).
The advantage of Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield is solely that they also remove spell protections (like Spell Turning or Spell Trap) -- which increases the situations the spells can be used in and allows you to do multiple actions in one turn in the few cases that it's necessary.
[Theoretical advantage would be for use against a creature that is immune to spells below lvl 6. I do not believe there are any in vanilla BG/BG2 that also have MR, however. The Drow lich perhaps?]
In any case: my point was simply that having multiple spells that lower resistance would be a waste for a sorcerer as they are 99% redundant and sorcerers can know only a few spells.
But if you're looking for advice on how to analyze though here are critiques you should consider
Sleep - great early on, but because it only effects creatures with x HD it stops being useful ~1/2-way through BG. After that it is essentially an unused spell. Also: there is a wand of sleep. So I'd just get that. [Note: In general if there's a wand of something (e.g. cloudkill or scorcher) it's not worth learning the spell.]
ProtEvil - A good spell. If you're in a party though your cleric will cast a party-wide version of this spell making it redundant. Still: it's a useful spell and nice from an RP perspective if you take demon summonings later.
Magic Missile - GREAT spell. Scales well. If you're playing with SCS or another tactics mod though: know that enemy mages will use Shield which will negate it. A second quick attack spell is good for spell disruption.
Shield - GREAT spell. In vanilla this becomes redundant in BG2, but even then I think it's worth it to survive BG. With tactics the magic missile immunity never hurts.
Blur & MI - both are good spells (mirror image is GREAT). Unless you do a lot of pre-buffing (e.g. if you play SCS) then they are a bit redundant. You also have no offense at that level (e.g. acid arrow, web, glitterdust, etc.)
Skull trap - GREAT. Scales well throughout the game.
The problem with the sorceror is that it becomes so powerful that it makes the game too easy.
Once you get level 9 spells most fight are over even before being started (project image, time stop, improved alacrity, horrid witling x 4-5)
Also, I disagree with the fact that mages have more strategic flexibility.
As a matter of fact, there is not that many interesting spells in the game and a sorceror can pick most of them already. For the rare occasion they need something really specific they can just use a scroll.
For spell selection, i avoid save or else spells as they tend to be useless in the late game. I also avoid anything that can be duplicated through items (wands, ...)
Here is the spells not to miss in each level :
Level 1:
Magic missile
shield : great in early BG1, especially for the protection from MM. Marginally useful after
My picks (solo no reload) : MM/Shield/Spook/Chromtic orb/Identify
Level 2:
Mirror image
Invisibility : only in solo.
Resist fear : only in solo.
Web : extremely OP spell in BG1 and early BG2. Toss 2 of them in 1 area and nobody can move.
My picks : mirror image, web, resist fear, invisibility, knock
Level 3:
Melf minuscule meteor : extremely OP in BG1 and early BG2. the THACO bonus combined with high dex makes it easy to hit things. The damage is very high for the early game. In BG2 it's great since you can kill very early monsters otherwise immune to low-enchanted weapons.
Haste : very good for summons or group buffing
Skull trap : not very useful in BG1 (wands of fire are better) but the damage scaling to 20D6 and the ability to lay traps is great in BG2
My picks : MMM, Haste, skull trap, remove magic, fire arrow
Level 4:
Stoneskin
Spiderspawn : very strong in BG and early BG2. The combo with web is absurdly powerful on lower levels
Improved invisibility : being untargetable by spells is good
My picks : Stoneskin, spiderspawn, improved invis, minor sequencer, greater malison
Level 5:
Animate dead : only if solo (otherwise clerics do it at level 3). Very strong summon from level 15.
Spell immunity : VERY powerful spell. Lot of OP (cheesy even) combos available.
Lower resistance
Breach : only in group
My picks : animate dead, spell immunity, lower resistance, sunfire, chaos
Level 6:
Protection from magical weapon : 4 rounds of complete immunity is just great
True sight : only if solo (let that to cleric otherwise)
contigency : some very nice combos are possible for difficult fights
My picks : PFMW, true sight, death spell, contingency, mislead
Level 7:
Project image : extremely OP, even if you refrain from using the cheesiest tactics
Mordenkainen's sword : very strong summon VS fighters.
My picks : Project image, Mordenkainen, Spell sequencer, Ruby ray of reversal, limited wish (not really useful but nothing really is IMO)
Level 8:
Horrid wilting : huge area damage, party friendly
My picks : horrid witling, protection from energy, pierce shield, spell trigger, power word blind
Level 9:
Time stop : extremely OP with improve alacrity.
Wish : with 18 WIS
Chain contigency : extremely OP.
My picks : time stop, wish, chain contigency, shapechange.
And no one can judge what I think as "no that is wrong!" Because I could do the same.
BTW: Bigby's Clenched Fist is much more useful, and using 4 spells instead of one has a nice point too, even in the EE, removing Spell Shield, another (bad) fixed spell, besides Limited Wish, many things regarding Contingencies and Greater Restoration, the best spell ever, until fixed because it was too over powered.
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Stuff/Cheese.htm
If you look at my picks for each level you will see that i take ruby ray of reversal at level 7 and pierce shield at level 8.
Breach is good also but i don't feel it's really necessary if you play solo (which i do all the time)
However, shadowkeeper should be able to do that.
Anyway you character is still viable (although flawed). At high level you will almost never use level 2 and 5 spells
I think the most important thing with sorcerers is to avoid duplication... So avoid taking a level 7 spell which is a slightly more powerful version of a level 6 spell... Nishru/Hakeashar, Fiend/Gate...
There are some exceptions, Haste & Improved Haste as an obvious one.
Also, don't take spells because they seem cool. Have a specific role for each selection. I like to have the ability to deal every type of elemental damage.. So I take Acid Arrows, Minute Meteors, Cone of Cold & Chain Lightning.
My list (feel free to tear it to shreds!) has some picks which lose utility over time, but to get to ToB you first have to flatten a few kobolds, so why gimp yourself there?
Anyway:
-1st Circle:
Magic Missile
Spook
Protection from Evil
Sleep
Chromatic Orb
-2nd Circle
Mirror Image
Resist Fear
Web
Blur
Melf's Acid Arrows
-3rd Circle
Dispel Magic
Skull Trap
Haste
Melf's Minute Meteors
Slow
-4th Circle
Stoneskins
Greater Malison
Spider Spawn
Minor Sequencer
Improved Invisibility
-5th Circle
Breach
Lower Resistance
Spell Immunity
Animate Dead
Cone of Cold
-6th Circle
Protection from Magic Energy
Protection from Magical Weapons
True Sight
Chain Lightening
Improved Haste
-7th Circle
Khelden's Warding Whip
Spell Sequencer
Limited Wish
Finger of Death
Mordenkainen's Sword
-8th Circle
Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
Simulacrum
Maze
Spell Trigger
Protection From Energy
-9th Circle
Time Stop
Wish
Shapechange
Spell Trap
Spellstrike