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Is 3Ed lore a big deal in a 2Ed game?

I've been doing some research into general Forgotten realms lore for a NPC that i may or may not ever make and I thought I had some fairly decent ideas until I discovered that 3Ed lore (shortly after the events of BG) had retconned the general cosmology and "universe" ideology of 2Ed.

I have to admit I'm not particularly well versed in any of the Forgotten Realms stuff and everything I have gleaned has been from the wiki, my idea was to create an elven NPC whos' backstory would be related to the shadow plane in some way.

The ideologies regarding said Shadow Plane that I would have liked to utilise are 3Ed (Great Tree) as opposed to 2Ed (Great Wheel), primarily those referring to the corruption of humanoids from prolonged exposure to the shadow plane ( ).

My primary question is, How out of place would some of these Ideologies be within the BG series?

And are there certain aspects I should avoid due to conflicts with the existing Storyline? Offhand i can't remember any mentions of the Great Wheel however it has been a while since I played through the saga.



  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    As of Baldur's Gate, the Shadow Plane does not exist. It was, as you discovered, a retcon.

    So personally, I probably wouldn't touch an NPC that was about the shadowplane (or the Far Realm, from 4E, from that matter). For me, Baldur's Gate is a game in AD&D, with the Great Wheel. Haer'Dalis's existence and banters basically refer to the Great Wheel as existing, and planes are called by their AD&D counterparts, not their 3E counterparts (for the biggest example, Bhaal's realm is in the Abyss: in 3E, it would be in Banehold).

    However, not everyone is me. There's a mod to bring Tyris Flare in to BG2 that's certainly popular (and very well written!): not everyone cares about lore issues. So, yes, by AD&D/BG, your mod with the shadowplane doesn't really fit the lore, but never let the lore stop your creativity and work.

    (Even I'm going off of 3E by assuming Gensai, Assimiar, and Tieflings are born in the Realms, when in 2E they're never mentioned as anything but Planar.)

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Everything @Twani said is basically how I was going to reply.

    Perhaps instead, you could tie the character into the Umar Hills and make him/her partially corrupted by the Shade Lord (or whatever he was called.)

  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited April 2014
    The Shadow Plane is a 3E amendment, but there is already a Demiplane of Shadow in 2E. Some known monsters like Malaugrym inhabit the plane.

    OP can use the Demiplane of Shadow in lieu of the Plane of Shadow. It might be of interest to learn a little more about the Malaugrym too.

    Post edited by jacobtan on
  • jobbyjobby Member Posts: 181
    Cheers for the feedback, I'm pretty much in agreement myself regarding out of place lore, however I am struggling to find any real information on the 2ed Demiplane of Shadow (Only that short paragraph in the wiki).

    I thought a 2ed Manual of the planes would provide some information however it apparently wasn't published due to angels and demons cover art "controversy".

    Whilst there aren't any prerequisites for a custom NPC to be tied to forgotten realms 2Ed lore I personally feel that it could be interesting to explore some less touched upon areas, not to mention that I would find something like that easier to write if I could draw upon existing established information.

    I guess my question then boils down to: does anyone know of any 2Ed books / manuals that do feature the Demiplane of shadow? To add to that are there any forgotten realms books / manuals you could recommend in general? I had thought about buying some but thankfully I read the "create a terrible NPC" thread before I blindly purchased the Baldurs Gate saga lol.

  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Check the wiki as you noted- .

    Luckily for you, the demiplane of Shadow and the Plane of Shadow are the same thing. So you could still write about shadow corruption on a character in AD&D. Just remember, it's a bit different- Shar doesn't make her home there yet (I think she's in the Grey Wastes?), although the cities of Shade are probably there just waiting for their chance to come to the surface (though I wouldn't make that a major plot point- BG is complicated enough).

    Glancing through my Planescape books, I'm not seeing anything about the Demiplane of Shadow (now, the Demiplane of Dread, we have books upon books about). So, I'd just take a lot of inspiration from that one or so paragraph, some inspiration from the Plane of Shadow, and mix it all together and see what you come up with.

    If you're making an elven NPC, I recommend you read AD&D's The Complete Book of Elves. It's not under the Forgotten Realms label, but as a rule, most things in the book are true for Forgotten Realms elves. For a look specifically at FR elves, The Elves of Evermeet is probably the best, although it mostly just describes the elves of that specific isle, it can still give you ideas on forgotten realms elf culture (and your NPC could certainly have been from Evermeet- we don't have any currently modded NPC's from there, so it makes a fine home). I would also suggest checking out Demihuman Dieties (AD&D FR): almost all characters in the Forgotten Realms worship a God, and most Elves worship one of the Elven Gods (though they certainly can worship human gods, which are listed in Faiths and Avatars (even in AD&D, Shar and Mask still had influence on shadows, if you're making an evil NPC- AD&D FR book, again).

    Depending on the class of your character, you may want to look at Wizards & Rogues of the Realms or Warriors & Priests of the Realms. Mostly, all they describe is different kits, but it might give you an idea on how your character views their class.

    Um... if you tell us where you intend your character to be from, there may be other books of use. Hm.

  • jobbyjobby Member Posts: 181
    Ah that's kinda what I was getting at, I referred to the 3Ed title of the realm which probably caused some confusion, but that's good to know.

    Was definitely going for an Elf due to their lifespan which allows for reference to past events, the Harpstar wars interest me given the fact they seem to be relatively unknown (correct me if I'm wrong) and tie in with the Malaugrym as @jacobtan suggested.

    Not really gotten into the writing yet (I'm still working out how mod the Infinity Engine and understanding what is and is not plausible) but having some nice story ideas will certainly help motivate me.

    I will definitely look into the two books you suggested and thanks for your help!

  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    If you need any help with the modding part, I suggest taking a look at the forum in the modding Q&A. I'm in the process of making an NPC, too, and they've been very kind to me over there when I've had questions on how things go, and you usually get an answer quicker then you do on these boards (not as many modders here, I'm afraid).

    Good luck on your NPC! NPC mods are always great to see: yes, there are a ton of them, but they add a lot of variety to the game. :)

  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited April 2014
    If you want info on elves, besides Elves of Evermeet, check out:

    1. Cormanthyr - Empire of the Elves
    2. The Fall of Myth Drannor

    If you are willing and able to read a novel, read Evermeet: Island of Elves by Elaine Cunningham.

    If you want to know more about the malaugrym and shadevari, read:

    1. Faiths and Avatars - Shar's entry and particularly Sisters of Light and Darkness
    2. Villains Lorebook

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