Dwarven Cleric/Fighter
GlorenBronzebeard
Member Posts: 45
I am new to BG... yes new to BG... though I have played many D&D games. My typical build is a cleric/fighter/Dwarven defender. I am wondering if this is a possible build and if it is effective. I understand BG is quite hardcore and old school and I am playing through it my first time. I started out as a plain ol Cleric. Default combo and hope to advance to a cleric/dwarven defender.... is this possible or should I start over as a dwarven defender and switch to cleric around level 7?
Thanks! any help is appreciated.
Thanks! any help is appreciated.
0
Comments
If you want to start out as one class and change professions at one point (this is called dualclassing), you'd have to play a human or, again, use a savegame editor.
Single class Clerics are strong in BG1 and in Shadows of Amn where you'll face lots of powerful Undead. In the final part of the trilogy (Throne of Bhaal) I find them a bit less convincing though definitely still useful.
Healing potions abound, so you'll likely end up using your spell slots mostly for other types of spells than healing spells: a couple of good debilitating spells, a few nice summoning spells, good buffs).
I would have gone with Dwarven Defender because there are none in the game, whereas the games offers various Clerics of different alignments that may join your party at one point or other. But if you're enjoying your Cleric, by all means keep it going. You're not likely to end up alone (unlees you behave in complete disregard of your companions' morals), so don't worry about that.
As has been said, without an editor there is no way to start as one class and add the other later. If you want to have both options then you have to start as a F/C.
General F/C tips:
1) Healing i combat isn't usually worth it apart from potions.
2) Self-buffs like Draw upon Holy Might and Righteous Magic let you hit very hard.
3) At low levels using a shield is a good idea, but dual wielding is far better at high levels. Don't put proficiency points in sword & shield style.
4) At higher levels you can use Armor of Faith (level 1 spell), Hardiness (Fighter high-level ability) and the Defender of Easthaven (Magic Flail) to get similar damage reduction to a Dwarven Defender.
XD
Welcome to the forums—enjoy your first playthrough! And your second, and your third, etc.
@GlorenBronzebeard, welcome to the Rerollers Anonymous
Seriously, if you're enjoying your Cleric, I'd say keep on playing. If you decide to reroll, @Corvino is very on point with his analysis of the Fighter/Cleric, a great and diverse class.
@Corvino is on point, and I've taken tips from him as well as others on the subject of dwarven fighter/clerics.
To add to what he said, I know this will sound funny, and without giving any spoilers, if you're going to play both BG1 and BG2 you may want to do so with the same character and importing him or her between the games. There are opportunities in BG1 to increase stats permanently that carry over if you import, and in my opinion the fighter/cleric is in the biggest position to take advantage of those.
I will also add that I made the mistake of putting points into sword and shield style, and if I could do it over again (or change it, which I can't since I'm on Ipad), I definately would. Hammers and flails are your top choices through the games, and eventually possibly dual wield.
This is a very long-run point, but eventually characters get High Level Abilities. As a multi-classed fighter cleric you'll be in a great position for those, and in my opinion even better than a fighter dualed over to cleric (who wouldn't get the fighter HLAs).
Last, those ability scores matter a lot of the class combo. It's worth spending some time rerolling until you AT LEAST have 91 total points to distribute in my opinion. I went max Strength, Constitution and Wisdom, but if I had it to do over again I might actually take the Dexterity over Strength since there are decent opportunities in BG2 to upgrade strength with items. It'd be a close call though, as having incredible strength without potions or items has been a boon in spreading resources to other party members.
Above all, play the character that you like and makes you happy. I played BG1 when it first came out and it's a good game (especially for pen and paper players from the past), but BG2 is proving to be a much better game and experience in my opinion.
Healing is actually only a small part of the BG-type cleric's repertoire.
In combat, most of the spells are too slow casting to be very useful, so the quick-use potions (of which there is a plentiful supply) are of greater utility.
The real strengths of the cleric are the protections and enhancements they can supply through their spells.
Dwarven Defender seems a great tanking kit... But personally I avoid pure fighter types for my main character as they inevitably become a bit point-click-kill, which is too limiting a play-style for me.
A heavily armed Dwarf Fighter/Cleric will be as robust as you could like, and gets to do other interesting stuff with their spells & undead turning.
The only problem is that any cleric class is limited to blunt weapons - so no axes for Gimli
For new players I would advise staying away from the complicated and confusing "dual-class" option available to humans only. I stayed away from it for years.
Some examples of how things are different are as follows:
STR/CON and other stats don't grow as you advance levels like they do in 3E. You are stuck with what you rolled on character creation. There are several ways to increase these, but they usually are limited to a one time boost of one point. Also the bonuses gained are significantly different from 3E. A 12 STR doesn't give +1/+1 to hit or damage bonuses. Getting a 18/XX STR can give you significant bonuses. And there are other rules. There are also items that, instead of giving +2, actually give a STATIC ability score. There are pluses and minuses to this. CON over 16 only benefits Fighter classes.
Also, Dual classing means that any experience that you gain gets divided equally between the classes you choose. That means that if you are playing a Fighter/Cleric and you get 100 XP, your Fighter gets 50 and your Cleric gets 50. What this means is that you will end up being slightly lower level than if you were JUST a Fighter. You will probably only be 1-2 levels lower, but it will be lower and slower to advance. your extra abilities will easily compensate and allow you to remain competitive. Just be aware that it will happen. Hit points are also divided in a similar manner (Fighter D10/Cleric D8 means that you would get 9 plus CON bonuses).
BG is absolutely worth it and you should have an enjoyable time. Just be aware that this isn't 3E. I myself like 2E significantly better, but it can be jarring making the conversion, particularly if you expect things to be one way and they are actually another.
Welcome and enjoy.
I rerolled untill I got a 89... and since Dwarven Defender was my favorite class I decided to bite the bullet, give up the magicks and go all tank. I do not mind full on meele classes as tanking is fun for me as it may be boring for others.... heavy micromanagement is not my thing and that is what the cleric seemed to be in these rules as I died often my first run . (In NWN I was able to buff my cleric with Fighter/Dwarven Defender ranks making the healing/buff spells the only ones I used)
As someone said 90 was a good roll, after 15 min or so of rerolling I settled with 89. With this I put max CON 19, max STR 18/XX and max Dex with 12 or so on the rest. I put my abilities on shield and axe as I want to keep shield and axe the whole game, with throwing axe as my secondary.
I have already been enjoying this game way more than with the cleric run through (only getting to the mines as the cleric) but already I have died significantly less (not at all) and been able to best some harder creatures. The Dwarven defender is much stronger as a Dwarf than a cleric and I think I will be able to get a cleric/Fighter dwarf character later in the game.
Now, Any tips for Dwarven Defender? from someone who is new to 2E? I like that my stats stay the same and think I picked good stats... the 19 con max should be great for modifiers... I feel my Dwarf will end up being the last character alive when shit hits the fan.
I want to keep a shield the whole game and use mainly axes... however I am open for other suggestions... A defender can only get 4 max in any wep prof. So I think I will focus on shield.
Anyways, thanks for your help, I know that a DND character is one that you will be stuck with for the entirety of the game, which could be 30 hr +..... I have had the same character since I got into DND and played tabletop.... Dwarven Defender dwarf... so I do not mind playing him again.
So far, I do not know how I missed this game. Being a DND fan, this game is perhaps even better than neverwinter, temple of elemental evil (though greyhound holds a special place for me.. that dark vibe) and the other baldurs gates i have played... the ones on Playstation.
Also Spyder.. thanks for the heads up, I will keep this in mind through my game play... I am happy where I put my stats on my 2nd reroll as I look back at my cleric I would have been confused and upset as to why I couldnt "fix" his stats.... I didnt really pay attention with him.. just wanted to get the game going!
Without doubt, the DD will be strong and should be nigh-on unkillable!
The only thing I would say, is that using pips in shield style is a waste of time… it gives a small bonus against missiles, which your full plate and tower shield will easily compensate for.
This *isn't* me saying don't use a shield (though some will say not to)… if that's how you RP him, then by all means strap one on!
Just don't waste the pips on the fighting style as it's terribly implemented with negligible benefits.
Max out axes & hammers at 4 pips, as they're the DD's favoured weapons, and there are great options for both.
@GlorenBronzebeard - Hope you enjoy the game. One note, since you mentioned it, as you progress through the game, you will find that 'micro-managing' may become more important regardless of your character. In later battles, and more particularly in BG2, you will get into mage battles that you will have to manage. These can sometimes get quite frenetic and very complicated. Don't let that get you down as the AI is actually probably better than NWN versions of same in these instances, but you WILL need to manage some of the tougher fights quite closely. The alternative is to crank the difficulty WAY down for those battles.
I'm stoked for you. I almost want to fire up a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric myself as that sounds like LOADS of fun. Enjoy and report back how you are doing.
As for not putting points in shield and sword style... I already put two as the only weapon I am looking to use is the axe... do you think it is worth a re-roll to get warhammer instead? I look to keep a shield the entire game, I like tower shields especially...
@ Spyder... as for firing one up, Let me know how your dwarf turns out Cleric/fighter.. And I will keep you in on how my pure Dwarven Defender works out. As you put it, I might have some trouble with the later mage battles but perhaps I can train up a mage companion to deal with them. In NWN my Dwarven Defender could take most spells and physical damage to the face with ease. Will I be able to do the same in BG? or do I have to be a bit more cautious agaisnt magic?
There's a Mace that stuns enemies 33% of the time. With multiple attacks per round this may permastun.
There's also 2-Handed Swords, for the Free Action 2-Handed Sword. Because of how overpowered Web is in the game. Nearly every battle in the game is shut down by Web. There's also a Ring that grants Free Action, but it can be a little tough to find.
Although you can always use Throwing Axes with Web.
As far as weapon proficiency goes, the important pips are 2 and 5. Because these grant extra attacks per roudn. And 3 and 4 add THAC0 and damage, but if you have decent STR (18 will do and just book yourself to 19) you'll get much more out of extra APR.
Two Weapon Style becomes a huge thing in BG2, in addition to the extra attack they give, there are weapons that grant an extra attack. If you wield these in your off-hand, that extra attack goes to your main hand weapon. And with the extra effects weapons have in BG2, being able to utilize those effects as much as you can is a good thing.
In any case, just keep Axes at 2 pips. There's really no need to max it to 4 pips, you'll barely feel the difference. If you're planning on carrying this character over to BG2, having a head start on Two Weapon Style can go a long way.
For spells, Clerics and Mages can grant other characters more protection against them. Clerics have stuff like Remove Fear, Free Action, Chaotic Commands. Mages have Improved Invisibility (+4 to Saving Throws), Protection from Petrification. Then there's the various elemental protections. And then there's items which duplicate these effects. But in most cases the Dwarven Defender's +7 to Saving Throws are practically an auto save.
As a fighter kit, you'll pick up an extra pip every 3rd level anyway... It'll just take a bit longer to swing hammers effectively.
I too prefer shields on my warriors (despite dual-wielding being mechanically more effective).
It's just that the fighting ste was poorly implemented.
Stick with it, and enjoy!
Also, I like the idea of having throwing axes as backup.... Do they fall under throwing weps or axe? I know 3rd E and 4th E lumps all throwing weapons into "throwing weapons"... does BG do the same?
Two weapon style = Dual Wield
Two handed weapon style = Two handed sword, halberd, spear, staff.
You can put 4 into both axes and hammers, then 3 into dual wield style and you'll be fine for the entire trilogy (BG1, BG2, ToB).
**** Axes
**** Hammers
*** Two weapon style
And any other points you get you'll be able to put into other stuff.
I'd personally leave the two weapon fightng style until last though... It only really becomes useful with some of the good off-hand weapons available in the second game.
(And throwing weapons count as their parent weapons by the way... Axe proficient includes throwing axes, dagger proficiency includes throwing daggers, etc)