Is this a BGEE mod that you would like to see? (spoilers)

Lemernis · May 2014

I'm asking this here because I know that the BGEE Modding forum doesn't get much traffic, and I want to see what sort of enthusiasm there might from the community for such a mod. I believe it would be one of the single best improvements to the game possible. And if it is not too difficult to mod, I may embark on learning how to do it.

I refer to this thread in the BGEE Modding subforum:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32224/increased-banters-in-bgee#p1

For reference sake I will restate the concept here.

1) This mod uses existing voiced banters only--there is no new written dialog content.

2) The banters between NPCS that already exist will fire with much higher frequency. All banters will fire often; hopefully the sweet spot for frequency will be found. Feedback about how often might be ideal for banters to fire is invited.

3) New relationships will be established between NPCs. Although it would be impossible to please everyone in that regard, it would probably be the most fun overall if there are a few surprises (such as Edwin and Alora striking up a friendship in vanilla).

4) For antagonistic relationships, a fight break may out after a certain point according to a % chance of occurrence. I.e., if certain conditions are met, then there is, say, a 1 in 5 chance, that the NPCs duke it out. The fight would be interruptible. Afterward that pair of NPCs will continue to grouse at each other as before but won't fight again.

5) Beyond the choices about which particular banters get traded back and forth, the new bantering relationships, and chance of a fight breaking out, there is no further modification to the game. The characters do not have any new content--they just banter frequently. They interact! (Sometimes with a chance of a fight breaking out.)

Resources with which to envision the possibilities for such a mod:

Mordeus Index of BG1 NPC Banters

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OZlQCRwkeB8

If you randomly click anywhere on the playback bar for the above You Tube link, you can hear a lot of lines that almost never fire in the game, and really deserve to be enjoyed and put to better use.

I have been advised that the BG1 NPC Project for EE intends to implement many of these ideas. And I love that mod for its immense creativity. But to be frank, I do not always want to play the game using someone else's vision of our beloved characters!

If BG1 NPC Project for EE is going to use a highly modular design similar to SCS where you can select the components you like--and as such the player could choose only what I am describing here--then it makes sense to wait for completion of that project. So I have added that as a poll option.

If there is really strong support for this idea, I will consider attempting to learn how to code such a mod; since I strongly believe that is probably the single strongest improvement to BGEE that I can envision.

Blackraven · May 2014

Banter and the relationships with and among NPCs are among the nicest aspects of the game. Additions or alternatives to what the BG1 NPC Project provides will further enhance the game's replayability.

To compare: there are different banter packs and NPC friendship mods for BG2, a game that in itself already has a lot of banter, but I still like those mods, and many people do.

Lemernis · May 2014

Part of the problem in creating the poll options is I don't know if BG1 NPC Project for EE will feature the modular option to just have increased voiced banters as I'm describing, independent of new custom content dialogs. But I figured that most fans of that mod aren't troubled by the way that the NPCs are conceptualized and developed (to some extent revised).

CrevsDaak · May 2014

I was going to select "Such a mod isn't necessary since I will eventually get what this mod offers in BG1 NPC Project." since I don't think I'll install both mods at the same moment, but maybe someone else likes it and having more mods done can't hurt anyone.
Also, right now I am playing with NPCs since I installed the BG1 NPC project, but if else I'd stick with solo runs, but that mod is making it interesting!

Lemernis · May 2014

I feel the need to reemphasize a crucial point (for me): BG1 NPC Project does a wonderful job of creating new content. I can't say enough good things about it. But the other side of that coin is that it also unavoidably imposes a particular vision of the characters. Sometimes I'm not in the mood for that.

For example, BG1 NPC Project assumes that Imoen will be dualed to Mage and writes her accordingly. I almost never dual-class Imoen to Mage, and I even dislike that she is dualed to Mage in BG2. (In fact, I often edit her class in BG2. But that's another story.) I don't want to make this a thread about issues that I have with BG1 NPC Project, because as I have said I am a huge fan and supporter of the mod. But this just serves to illustrate that I may not be in the mood for an extensive makeover of character interaction and definition.

AstroBryGuy · May 2014

Meant to mark "Other" - gotta look before I click! :-)

If you want to make a mod like this - great! Personally, I'll stick with the BG1NPC Project, but I'm biased, I guess. ;-) But I do think this mod would be good for those who want more talkative NPCs without all the additions of the BG1NPC Project. Especially if you can make it work without adding any lines of dialog, in which case it could be great for iPad/Android users (at least those who don't jailbreak their devices).

Look at the Accelerated Banters portion of BG1NPC if you need an example of how to speed up the banter dialogs.

FYI - The development versions BG1NPC with BGEE compatibility follow the same installation structure BG1NPC has had for previous versions. The "Banters, Quests, and Interjections" are installed as one component. The romances, other tweaks (e.g., portraits, opening Cloakwood, etc..), and PIDs are installed as separate components.

Lemernis · May 2014

AstroBryGuy said:
Meant to mark "Other" - look before I click! :-)

If you want to make a mod like this - great! Personally, I'll stick with the BG1NPC Project, but I'm biased, I guess. ;-) But I do think this mod would be good for those who want more talkative NPCs without all the additions of the BG1NPC Project. Especially if you can make it work without adding any lines of dialog, in which case it could be great for iPad/Android users (at least those who don't jailbreak their devices).

Look at the Accelerated Banters portion of BG1NPC if you need an example of how to speed up the banter dialogs.

FYI - The development versions BG1NPC with BGEE compatibility follow the same installation structure BG1NPC has had for previous versions. The "Banters, Quests, and Interjections" are installed as one component. The romances, other tweaks (e.g., portraits, opening Cloakwood, etc..), and PIDs are installed as separate components.

Thanks, so it looks like just acceleration of voiced banter lines as a standalone component of BG1 NPC Project isn't an option then, is that right?

CrevsDaak · May 2014

There's a componenet of the BG2 tweaks pack that nakes them trigger more often, and you can also tweak the BANTTING.2DA file, whose values as contents I am unable to check now (or at least that is what Avenger said).

AstroBryGuy · May 2014

The accelerated banters component is separate from the installation of the "Banters, Quests, and Interjections". It does require the BG1NPC "core" to be installed, much as SCS requires its core for any other components.

So, if you installed core and the accelerated banters component, it would just accelerate the banters in the current banter dialog files (i.e. those defined in interdia.2da). AFAIK, it doesn't affect the insults/compliments that NPCs also trade (i.e., controlled by the table in interact.2da).

EDIT: Here's the BANTTIMG.2da file that @CrevsDaak‌ mentioned:

2DA V1.0
0
                        VALUE 
FREQUENCY               600       
PROBABILITY             10     
REPLAYDELAY             150      
SPECIALPROBABILITY      25

I'm not sure if it controls banter dialogs or the insults/compliments. "Specials" are a feature of the insults/compliments table in INTERACT.2da, so it might be the latter.

Lemernis · May 2014

@AstroBryGuy Thanks! Ah! Okay, so that is half of what I'm envisioning. The other half would be a new set of relationships between NPCs that are designed entirely from the existing voiced lines.

For example, just off the top of my head:

Xan to Tiax: Around you I almost feel that we have a chance.

Tiax's response: Your insults carry little sting. Tiax knows he will rule in the end.

Or similarly,

Tiax to Xan: Has Tiax mentioned he's going to rule? 'Tis inevitable.

Xan's response: Around you I almost feel that we have a chance.

So that is actually a compliment line from Xan, but it would be used facetiously there.

There could be some relationships that are a bit mixed. That is, some interactions could exhibit friction at times, whereas other banters between the two feature occasional compliments.

Pecca · May 2014

Oh, I get it now. And I like it.

Jidokwon · June 2014

Before adding a ton of fanfaire, I'd like to just play through a vanilla game or two and have every possible NPC banter fire. As it is, I'm lucky to hear a small percentage of them. I'm not just talking about the banters NPCs have with fellow party members, but what seem to be extremely rare ones, such as when they're in the forest, city, dungeons, etc. This really should have been a given for the EE versions. I was fairly disappointed only hearing the happy and select banters in my first BGEE play through.

Lemernis · June 2014

Jidokwon said:
Before adding a ton of fanfaire, I'd like to just play through a vanilla game or two and have every possible NPC banter fire. As it is, I'm lucky to hear a small percentage of them. I'm not just talking about the banters NPCs have with fellow party members, but what seem to be extremely rare ones, such as when they're in the forest, city, dungeons, etc. This really should have been a given for the EE versions. I was fairly disappointed only hearing the happy and select banters in my first BGEE play through.

@Jidokwon I agree that as a feature request this is something I would very much like to see as well!

Is this a BGEE mod that you would like to see? (spoilers)

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