Im in a similar position with getting a solo Kensage set up. I'd love to have solo'd the Kensai but I know it's not really an option, so I've thrown everything into Quarterstaff and had no problems at all running with Khalid, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Coran. Pre-Coran everyone managed taking on the Basilisks with no issues, and I've levelled everyone up to six farming Ankhegs, but other than the occasional death from poison, there's been no problems with just running in and smacking stuff. Everyone other than Dynaheir is using +2 stuff so stuff is dying pretty quickly without the party taking much damage, and we're about to tackle Cloakwood Mines. I'm pretty certain you'll be the same, though I'd suggest running with less than six party members-I'd personally run my own group without Dynaheir if I could taking me to a party of four, but I find Magic Missile so good at dealing with casters.
...Druids can use daggers, so you'll be able to continue to use them after you complete your dualling process.
You would be able to use them anyway once you exceed your original level, unless I am mistaken (which is very possible). For instance, I know from experience that when dualing Sharteel to thief she can't use longswords until you exceed the Fighter level (but then you can). Or if you dual Imoen to Mage, you can't use Shortswords until you exceed your thief level (and then you can). So even if he took a weapon that Druids can't use (such as Katana), he should still be able to wield it once he get's his fighter levels back.
Unless, like I said, I am mistaken.
As far as I know the Fighter part in a Fighter/Thief dual takes away the Thief's weapon restrictions. However, for Fighter/Priest duals the Priest's weapon restrictions continue to apply even after cpmpleting the dualclassing process.
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
That's true, they can use longswords, but my point was that you CAN use the equipment from your first class as soon as you get the levels back (even if the class you are dualing into can't use the weapons at all).
Additionally, any pips you invest before dualing ARE applied once you get back your previous levels, they just don't stack. For instance, if I put two-pips into dagger before dualing to mage, and then I dualed to mage and put one pip into dagger, when I get my levels back I will NOT have three pips in dagger - I will have two. Hence, the pips are only lost if you invest into the same proficiency after dualing.
Lastly, it's worth pointing out that you can CONTINUE adding pips once you reattain your previous levels. For instance, Mages cannot specialize, but they CAN once you reattain your previous levels (provided the previous class could specialize), even if you didn't attain specialization before dualing. It is also true for Grandmastery - if I dual from a fighter with 4 pips in longsword, once I dual I obviously cannot put any pips into longsword (as mages cannot use longsword), but once I get my fighter levels back I can add the 5th pip, even as a Mage (at level 18 or 24), and attain Grandmastery. That's one of the reasons I prefer dualclass to multiclass - I can GM weapons as a fighter/mage as opposed to the multiclass variant. Not to mention that fighters basically quit progressing past level 13 (aside from HLAs) whereas a Mage continues progressing until level 28.
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
That's true, they can use longswords, but my point was that you CAN use the equipment from your first class as soon as you get the levels back (even if the class you are dualing into can't use the weapons at all).
Additionally, any pips you invest before dualing ARE applied once you get back your previous levels, they just don't stack. For instance, if I put two-pips into dagger before dualing to mage, and then I dualed to mage and put one pip into dagger, when I get my levels back I will NOT have three pips in dagger - I will have two. Hence, the pips are only lost if you equaled or exceeded a given proficiency before you dualed.
Lastly, it's worth pointing out that you can CONTINUE adding pips once you reattain your previous levels. For instance, Mages cannot specialize, but they CAN once you reattain your previous levels (provided the previous class could specialize), even if you didn't attain specialization before dualing. It is also true for Grandmastery - if I dual from a fighter with 4 pips in longsword, once I dual I obviously cannot put any pips into longsword (as mages cannot use longsword), but once I get my fighter levels back I can add the 5th pip, even as a Mage (at level 18 or 24), and attain Grandmastery. That's one of the reasons I prefer dualclass to multiclass - I can GM weapons as a fighter/mage as opposed to the multiclass variant. Not to mention that fighters basically quit progressing past level 13 (aside from HLAs) whereas a Mage continues progressing until level 28 (but I digress).
Yeah, so essentially you can't put anymore pips in longsword until your fighter levels kick back in since thieve's cannot have more than 1 pip in weapon proficiencies. The only time I could see this being a feature instead of a hinderance is if you are dualing into fighter and choose to put points into a weapon type you were already proficient in. You'd become better with the weapon faster but are still sacrificing 1 pip (the overlap for proficiency) in order to do so, not something I would recommend.
I personally prefer multiclassing to dual classing, especially for fighter classes. While grand mastery is good, the loss of fighter HLA's will be too big of a hit to the end game potential of the character in my opinion. Fighters have some pretty gnarly HLA's and to lose them for grand mastery doesn't seem worth it to me. Additionally there's isn't any wait involved for your character to start functioning as you wanted. You don't have to kill 7 levels as just a fighter and then do it all over again as just a mage before you can become the Fighter/Mage you origianlly intended to be.
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
That's true, they can use longswords, but my point was that you CAN use the equipment from your first class as soon as you get the levels back (even if the class you are dualing into can't use the weapons at all).
Additionally, any pips you invest before dualing ARE applied once you get back your previous levels, they just don't stack. For instance, if I put two-pips into dagger before dualing to mage, and then I dualed to mage and put one pip into dagger, when I get my levels back I will NOT have three pips in dagger - I will have two. Hence, the pips are only lost if you equaled or exceeded a given proficiency before you dualed.
Lastly, it's worth pointing out that you can CONTINUE adding pips once you reattain your previous levels. For instance, Mages cannot specialize, but they CAN once you reattain your previous levels (provided the previous class could specialize), even if you didn't attain specialization before dualing. It is also true for Grandmastery - if I dual from a fighter with 4 pips in longsword, once I dual I obviously cannot put any pips into longsword (as mages cannot use longsword), but once I get my fighter levels back I can add the 5th pip, even as a Mage (at level 18 or 24), and attain Grandmastery. That's one of the reasons I prefer dualclass to multiclass - I can GM weapons as a fighter/mage as opposed to the multiclass variant. Not to mention that fighters basically quit progressing past level 13 (aside from HLAs) whereas a Mage continues progressing until level 28 (but I digress).
Yeah, so essentially you can't put anymore pips in longsword until your fighter levels kick back in since thieve's cannot have more than 1 pip in weapon proficiencies. The only time I could see this being a feature instead of a hinderance is if you are dualing into fighter and choose to put points into a weapon type you were already proficient in. You'd become better with the weapon faster but are still sacrificing 1 pip (the overlap for proficiency) in order to do so, not something I would recommend.
I personally prefer multiclassing to dual classing, especially for fighter classes. While grand mastery is good, the loss of fighter HLA's will be too big of a hit to the end game potential of the character in my opinion. Fighters have some pretty gnarly HLA's and to lose them for grand mastery doesn't seem worth it to me. Additionally there's isn't any wait involved for your character to start functioning as you wanted. You don't have to kill 7 levels as just a fighter and then do it all over again as just a mage before you can become the Fighter/Mage you origianlly intended to be.
I understand what you are saying, and in the end it all comes down to preference, but I can't stand the fighter/mage multiclass even if the fighter HLAs are good. HLAs alone are not worth taking the fighter past level 13. By the time I hit level 13 I have already GM'd the weapon I want (usually scimitars because of Belm and the upgraded Spectral Brand) and obtained the maximum apr, whereas Mages continue on into godhood. I feel that the fighter becomes dead weight in multiclass, holding the mage back - not to mention that the multiclass variant cannot attain grandmastery.
I have to admit that I have only ever played through the second game a few times (though I am approaching 1000 hours on the first game), so I am not the best authority when it comes to the entire saga and high levels.
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
That's true, they can use longswords, but my point was that you CAN use the equipment from your first class as soon as you get the levels back (even if the class you are dualing into can't use the weapons at all).
Yes and no. There are cases where a class can't use certain equipment due to lack of training (e.g. a mage not being able to use most weapons and armour) and then there are cases where a class can't use certain equipment due restrictions/tenants associated with their class (e.g. a cleric not being allowed to use bladed weapons). It's not really made explicit which classes fall into which category. An example of the former case: a fighter/mage or fighter->mage will be able to use weapons and armour that a single class mage can't. An example of the latter case: a fighter/cleric or fighter->cleric will never be able to use bladed weapons.
The only exceptions I can think of to this are: - druids being allowed to wear heavy armour if they're part fighter - a thief with Use Any Item
@Stormvessel Thieves can use Longswords anyway. So, yes you can use them once your fighter levels kick back in, but you could use them in the mean time aswell since it is one of the weapons a thief can be proficient in anyways. You wont have any of the pips you put in from your fighter levels however, and if I am not mistaken any pips you put into longswords while leveling your rogue class will be lost when the fighter levels kick back in.
That's true, they can use longswords, but my point was that you CAN use the equipment from your first class as soon as you get the levels back (even if the class you are dualing into can't use the weapons at all).
Yes and no. There are cases where a class can't use certain equipment due to lack of training (e.g. a mage not being able to use most weapons and armour) and then there are cases where a class can't use certain equipment due restrictions/tenants associated with their class (e.g. a cleric not being allowed to use bladed weapons). An example of the former case: a fighter/mage or fighter->mage will be able to use weapons and armour that a single class mage can't. An example of the latter case: a fighter/cleric or fighter->cleric will never be able to use bladed weapons.
The only exceptions I can think of to this are: - druids being allowed to wear heavy armour if they're part fighter - a thief with Use Any Item
That's a good point, which is why I usually check the multiclass restrictions before planning a dualclass. I've never played a Fighter/Cleric, but I plan to, so that's good to know.
A bit off topic, but seeing as how Fighter/Clerics cannot use bladed weapons, what is the best option for the offhand? I usually GM scimitars (even if Spectral Brand is a pain to obtain). But seeing as Fighter/Clerics cannot use scimitars are there any good alternatives for the offhand? Not having Belm available to use with FotA raises a concern with me - but I don't have the knowledge that a lot of you guys have, so I am hoping there is a viable alternative to Belm for Fighter/Clerics?
Defender is probably the most obvious choice, as none give bonus attacks.
Cleric fighter multi imo is substantially better late game than the dual, those HLA plus cleric buffs? Nice. Ranger cleric multi would be much tankier with Ironskins.
Thanks guys. If my Fighter/Cleric is anything like my Priest of Lathander, I would likely have 20+ Strength by the time I hit ToB, and because I would be able to cast DUHM so many times I am not really concerned w/ Crom Faeyr. With my Priest of Lathander I used a shield and flail - Boon of Lathander stacks and with Flail of the Ages and 25 strength (DUHM) you are a demigod.
With a Fighter/Cleric I was hoping to dual-wield Flail of the Ages with an APR boosting offhand weapon. I won't have Boon of Lathander available late game so I will plan on using Crom Faeyr after all and just rely on improved haste. On the bright side it will free up my level 2 slots (although I will still keep one DUHM to cast before resting - unless I'm playing good).
Argh - I hate that Fighter/Clerics can't wield scimitars. It's hard to believe there are no other APR boosting weapons for Clerics, but you guys know more than I do.
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Additionally, any pips you invest before dualing ARE applied once you get back your previous levels, they just don't stack. For instance, if I put two-pips into dagger before dualing to mage, and then I dualed to mage and put one pip into dagger, when I get my levels back I will NOT have three pips in dagger - I will have two. Hence, the pips are only lost if you invest into the same proficiency after dualing.
Lastly, it's worth pointing out that you can CONTINUE adding pips once you reattain your previous levels. For instance, Mages cannot specialize, but they CAN once you reattain your previous levels (provided the previous class could specialize), even if you didn't attain specialization before dualing. It is also true for Grandmastery - if I dual from a fighter with 4 pips in longsword, once I dual I obviously cannot put any pips into longsword (as mages cannot use longsword), but once I get my fighter levels back I can add the 5th pip, even as a Mage (at level 18 or 24), and attain Grandmastery. That's one of the reasons I prefer dualclass to multiclass - I can GM weapons as a fighter/mage as opposed to the multiclass variant. Not to mention that fighters basically quit progressing past level 13 (aside from HLAs) whereas a Mage continues progressing until level 28.
Edit: Sorry for all the late editing.
I personally prefer multiclassing to dual classing, especially for fighter classes. While grand mastery is good, the loss of fighter HLA's will be too big of a hit to the end game potential of the character in my opinion. Fighters have some pretty gnarly HLA's and to lose them for grand mastery doesn't seem worth it to me. Additionally there's isn't any wait involved for your character to start functioning as you wanted. You don't have to kill 7 levels as just a fighter and then do it all over again as just a mage before you can become the Fighter/Mage you origianlly intended to be.
I have to admit that I have only ever played through the second game a few times (though I am approaching 1000 hours on the first game), so I am not the best authority when it comes to the entire saga and high levels.
The only exceptions I can think of to this are:
- druids being allowed to wear heavy armour if they're part fighter
- a thief with Use Any Item
A bit off topic, but seeing as how Fighter/Clerics cannot use bladed weapons, what is the best option for the offhand? I usually GM scimitars (even if Spectral Brand is a pain to obtain). But seeing as Fighter/Clerics cannot use scimitars are there any good alternatives for the offhand? Not having Belm available to use with FotA raises a concern with me - but I don't have the knowledge that a lot of you guys have, so I am hoping there is a viable alternative to Belm for Fighter/Clerics?
Cleric fighter multi imo is substantially better late game than the dual, those HLA plus cleric buffs? Nice. Ranger cleric multi would be much tankier with Ironskins.
With a Fighter/Cleric I was hoping to dual-wield Flail of the Ages with an APR boosting offhand weapon. I won't have Boon of Lathander available late game so I will plan on using Crom Faeyr after all and just rely on improved haste. On the bright side it will free up my level 2 slots (although I will still keep one DUHM to cast before resting - unless I'm playing good).
Argh - I hate that Fighter/Clerics can't wield scimitars. It's hard to believe there are no other APR boosting weapons for Clerics, but you guys know more than I do.