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Any way to escape Candlekeep after killing Firebeard??

jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,245
My Halfling assassin simply wants to take this man down this go-round, and after many reloads it certainly is possible. However, Gorion takes it upon himself to instantly kill you when you approach him, which makes things a bit tricky. The only thing I can imagine would work would be a mad dash to the temple to raise your rep with the money you took of the unfortunate old mage you just killed, but if the temple priest is hostile, aren't you pretty much stuck there without a way to move forward??

Edit: Walking around town after is suicide, I would assume the only way to accomplish this is to scrounge up 200 gold, raise your rep one point, then after you kill him you fall to just disliked and not despised. I can't see any other way out of there lol.

Edit again: I forgot I choose Neutral Evil as my alignment, which puts me at nine to start which doesn't really work I suppose. Logically this makes no sense, since as far as I can tell the only type of NPC who can get away with killing Firebeard is a good aligned character.

terzaerian

Comments

  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    Why not try to kill someone else? I mean if you kill firebeard now do you still get the scroll case?

    SCARY_WIZARDterzaerian
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,245
    edited August 2014
    Probably not but I'm just experimenting here....I'm not entirely sure how to make it out of the keep alive if you kill Firebeard as a character you start as evil. I'm not sure what rep point the town turns against you, but at 4 EVERYONE is after you. Gorion one-shots you, the girl you ran the book quest for does the same. I'm just interested in this at the moment.

    I actually am not sure it's possible at all, killing anyone in the inn turns the whole town hostile regardless of any other factors it seems. It's possible to kill Firebeard and get a level or two, but there doesn't seem to be any way to leave.

  • KingGhidorahKingGhidorah Member Posts: 200
    You could try a failed pickpocket attempt on Firebead... IIRC only he will turn hostile and you can kill him without interference. Im not 100% sure though...

  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    Gorion holds a grudge forever and just seems to *know* if you've murdered someone, so donating to the temple wont make any difference. Though I did once murder a guard without anyone caring.

    You're probably better off murdering Firebead in Beregost.

    elminsterjackjack
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Reputation doesn't have anything to do with NPCs hostility after murdering someone. You could be at 20 Rep, kill someone, cheat your way back to 20 Rep and everyone would still want to kill you.

    elminsterjackjacklolien
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,186
    edited August 2014
    You could always try the export and import spells. :p

    dementedjackjackSCARY_WIZARD
  • terzaerianterzaerian Member Posts: 231

    You could try a failed pickpocket attempt on Firebead... IIRC only he will turn hostile and you can kill him without interference. Im not 100% sure though...

    Dunno about the EE but I know in Tutu a failed pickpocket aggros everyone as sure as if you killed him then and there.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,245
    No getting out of Candlekeep once you kill Elminster (or attack ANYONE important for that matter) my 4 hrs of sleep last night proves it. You can get your 2700 exp but you aren't going anywhere with it. Killing him later is the only viable option if you are into that sort of thing. Be nice if there was a simple mod to change this though, he is a fun challenge with different tactics for each class. My assassin had to succeed with two snares, a good backstab and alot of reloads to even have a chance.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Gotural said:

    Reputation doesn't have anything to do with NPCs hostility after murdering someone. You could be at 20 Rep, kill someone, cheat your way back to 20 Rep and everyone would still want to kill you.

    This isn't 100% accurate. "Once they SEE you" their agro is set and can't be unset. That is true. However, you need to set their agro before they become nonredeemable. Therefore, if you somehow managed to get your rep back up to acceptable levels, anyone who hadn't seen you at rep lower than 4 would be just fine.

    Since you are set on playing a halfling, put all of your points into open locks and get the jewel on the second floor of the Inn. Sell it for BIG bucks and then use the money to boost your rep at the temple. You'd have to play around with exactly how much you need because the higher up your rep, the more you lose when killing someone. It's tiered that way. It might therefore be possible to find that sweet spot where killing him won't agro everyone on sight.

  • terzaerianterzaerian Member Posts: 231
    Does aggro reset if you use Algernon's Cloak on a neutral-to-hostile NPC?

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I'm pretty sure reputation has nothing to do and that agro doesn't follow some strict rules. I'm actually doing some testing as we speak. A 1 reputation character can walk in Candlekeep without any troubles.

    If you murder someone in the second floor of the Inn, everything is good.

    If you murder anyone on the first floor, your game is ruined.

    In both cases, 20 reputation or 1 doesn't change anything.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,245
    Gotural said:

    I'm pretty sure reputation has nothing to do and that agro doesn't follow some strict rules. I'm actually doing some testing as we speak. A 1 reputation character can walk in Candlekeep without any troubles.

    If you murder someone in the second floor of the Inn, everything is good.

    If you murder anyone on the first floor, your game is ruined.

    In both cases, 20 reputation or 1 doesn't change anything.

    Save yourself the aggravation my friend :P....I made Candlekeep my experimental Firebeard-murdering playground for about 4 hrs late into the evening last night. It WOULD be fun to just have a simple mod that STILL lowers your reputation but doesn't cause the entire Keep to hunt you down like the murdering dog that you are (by the way, the cast of characters from what is basically a tutorial are frickin' juggernauts once they set their sights on you).

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited August 2014
    Agro is ABSOLUTELY set by reputation for civilians and guards and the like. If your reputation drops below a certain point (or above it in certain situations), you automatically agro anyone who sees the character.

    So, if your rep drops below 4, Flaming fists will agro as soon as you enter visual range. You can test this out by tanking your reputation and then going invisible into a town. I've done this dozens of times. As long as you are invisble, no one will go AGRO on you unless they are a monster, or already agro from seeing you before, or they have some way of detecting invisible creatures.

    Now, if you kill a civilian in full sight of a guard, that will (should) also agro them. But that doesn't mean that is the only way to agro someone.

    And reputation moves regardless of if someone sees you or not. If you 'accidentally' torch civilians, your reputation will take a hit, even if you are out in the woods. If you want to test this, attack the Flaming fist that approaches you on the road south and accuses you of being a bandit. Your rep will take a hit even though no one is around to see it. Likewise the Paladin in the woods out by the Gnoll Fortress.

    The problem is, once agro'd, there is no way of resetting back to neutral short of killing the guards. My most recent play through, my rep tanked down to 2 on the way into Nashkal. Several guards saw me on entry and agro'd. Thankfully I was able to avoid attacking/killing them and the rest of the Fist stayed normal. I went invisible until my rep was back to normal and was able to walk around perfectly fine so long as I didn't see those specific Fist who saw me on entry.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,245
    He's basically just saying that things seem to function differently in Candlekeep than they do once you leave, at least in EE. I can kill the Priest in the house who is nursing the sick, take a big rep hit, and walk around with a low rep. The other issue is that there are no Flaming Fist guards to come after you in Candlekeep, so things are generally fine no matter what UNTIL you decide to kill anyone on the first floor of the inn. At that point, you can't save, and the entire town is focused on one goal, which is ending your existence and your game. Even assuming you can make it to Gorion, he immediately wipes you out as soon as you are in range, you have no shot. The Priest who takes donations at the Temple is hostile as well. It's possible the cow is still friendly, but I doubt it.

    jackjacklolien
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Some changes have occured in the EE to allow players to play evil more easily.

    I know I can walk in any city with 1 reputation killing all the Flaming Fist and the bounty hunters that are coming and the civilian stay friendly.

    The Nahskel guards are a special case (mostly bug I guess) because when you enter the town with a low reputation, the civilians stay friendly as normal, but one guard will start to attack you, as soon as he die, another one will start to attack you, etc. The others guards will even start to attack the guard attacking you until he dies.

    It was in the original game that civilians would go hostile when you were at low rep.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I can even provide a video if you wish it of my Blackguard and his evil party walking into Baldur's Gate or Beregost at 1 reputation, only the spawning Flaming Fist and bounty hunters will attack, and after we kill them, everybody stay friendly.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    It sounds like they changed the default civilian behavior, but from what you are saying, AGRO is still driven by reputation. it just doesn't drive civilians to do a suicide run against a fully armored party. Doesn't change the fact that AGRO is driven by rep.

    And as for the original question, I get that people want to try and break the game in interesting and unique ways. Yup, ya found one. Just because you found a break, that doesn't mean that you should be allowed to do it and continue on as normal. If you kill a "Name" civilian in full sight of the public, I think it only right that the game should stop you in your tracks there. After all, Candle keep is supposed to show you how to play the game correctly.

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